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View Poll Results: How long will Trump be President?

Voters
144. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1 Term (4 Years)

    26 18.06%
  • 2 Terms (8 Years)

    51 35.42%
  • 1st Term Impeachment/Assassination

    50 34.72%
  • 2nd Term Impeachment/Assassination

    4 2.78%
  • I don't know what's going on!

    13 9.03%
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Thread: ✮✮✮ !Trump Dump! ✮✮✮

  1. #401
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    Thor,

    The climate hypothesis could explain cultural evolution as well, not just biological evolution. But let's not get too hung up on it. I think we can agree that there are differences between races beyond superficial things like skin color, without having to identify the process through which racial differences arose.

    You pointed out that different races have different IQ distributions. And black people are statistically more likely to commit crime. Those are well researched facts that I don't dispute. However, I'm still not sure where you were going by pointing it out.

    Even though different races have different IQ distributions, you can't use that as a basis for how you treat an individual. You can't reject a black candidate for a job because you assume they're dumber than the Asian candidate, going based on their race. That would be racist and illegal. Similarly, cops shouldn't stop and frisk black people on the street assuming they're up to no good just because they're black. But that really does happen in the US, and it happens a lot. Racial profiling is a standard practice in many police departments. Cops defend it based on crime statistics, but that doesn't make it any less racist. Presumption of innocence is a legal right that should be applied equally to all races.
    Thank you. I wasn't really going very far with it other than to say that racial differences are more than cosmetic. Here I found a video that features an interview with a scientist who has researched these things for decades and who arguments on these things with more facts and finesse than I ever could. And he focuses on the less sensitive topics of athletic ability (going beyond cultural difference), which is a far better way of starting off a conversation like this. It doesn't really make a statement on the IQ either, so it doesn't go against Renz's point a bit back. I'm not particularily a Stefan Molyneux fan as he can be a bit annoying sometimes, but the video is about the other guy. Stefan himself is usually (and here as well) reasonable and sensible himself, though some of his views are a bit too extreme and assumptuous for me to think of as true.
    But yeah, I guess America is more racist than I thought.

    Tribalism is cultural preference, and I don't see anything wrong with that. Do you prefer to live with people that feel that love to fart a lot or would you prefer to live with people that share their food? Or maybe people that smoke water pipe? People that have a passion for running? That's getting more personal than tribalistic, but hey, scaling it down ever more...

    faetal: why even waste time here at all if you have a wife and a kid.
    Last edited by Thor; 11th May 2016 at 18:07.

  2. #402
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Because having a wife and kid doesn't preclude having hobbies? If a debate is interesting, I'll expend keystrokes on it. If however it is just a person wind-milling at a topic with a string of logical fallacies, then it's a waste of time since you need to unpick all of the fallacies before you can even get down to the topic. It's not fun, it's tedious.

    For example the video link above is what's called confirmation bias. I seriously doubt you have undertaken a non-loaded search of studies about ethnicity and returned with what you consider the balance of that search. More probable is that you've either referred back to something you once saw / read which you agree with, or used loaded search terms to find something which props you up. This isn't an interesting thing to debate, because you aren't presenting your own thoughts dialectically and you aren't referencing good research, you're just using a "science guy says X" video as a cheap way to make your argument appear more valid. If that's the level you want to work on, fine - just don't expect some kind of automatic respect when your stance is essentially a specious cartoon sketch of why people with white skin are somehow superior to ethnic minorities.

    Tribalism in the context above is the generic fear / distrust / disdain for archetypes deemed other relative to what you're familiar with. Nothing to do with the shared habits of people from X culture.

  3. #403
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: A Former Forest
    The “race” issues in the USA seem more due to culture clash, than supposed inherent race characteristics. However, the racists on all sides will claim they are due to race alone.

    In my day, blacks students in school generally came in two types (with exceptions of course): “white acting” black kids that lived in the same neighborhoods as whites, and “regular” black kids that were bussed in from poorer parts of town. The differences in academic performance between these two was striking. The local black kids were often products of doctors, lawyers, businessmen, etc. The far away blacks were mostly blue collar or on welfare. Many of the far away blacks were typically in the remedial classes and kept to themselves (with the exception of being on a lot of athletic teams). The locals were well integrated and were in many of the advanced placement classes. This all suggests parenting, money, and culture were factors, not their genetic makeup being at play.

    The local blacks had had the same advantages as the whites and locals. Their parents took interest in their schoolwork. The bussed in kids came from some pretty nasty areas, with shootings, robberies, rapes, all sorts of crime. They did not have the same chances as the “richer” kids, so by the time they got the High School, they were so far behind they did not stand a chance. Some did excel though. Some of the poor kids did take advantage of what those poor schools could offer. All I can suppose is their parents gave a shit and pushed them to do better and work harder.

    I reject the idea black people are IQ inferior. I do not reject that their lives as poor people is a huge contributing factor in low scores. However, just giving them money will not change mindsets that do not value education and academic achievement. Cultural distain for “white culture” has to stop. Not all aspects of white culture are bad, yet some seem to want to reject it all. Things like the Constitution are dismissed out of hand simply because is was written by “white slave owners”. Why don’t they reject Islam then, since it was black Islamic traders that captured them and sold them into slavery?

    Wait... who is “they” anyway? Some blacks are supporting Trump. Some blacks reject the BLM agenda (sorry, it is not just about black kids getting gunned down by police). Some Christian blacks are fearful of what the left is going to do to them. It is only the left that claims the black (African American) community to be some monolithic group of people. If that is not racist, then I am Bill Bixby.

  4. #404
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    Of course, I didn't research everything myself. I have neither the time or resources to do all that myself. However, I do feel more trust toward scientists than any kind of media (even in the subtle form of entertainment) or hatred with no arguments. And since there are ones out there that support some of these things, and not a whole lot besides media going against it, when I see some pretty biased comment, I sometimes get the ick to put my (maybe clumsy) input on it. I won't anymore. I've learned my lesson. I won't be called a racist asshole anymore (pretty much the most holier-than-thou moral judgement you can throw at someone these days, besides maybe murderer/rapist) for having a skeptical view instead of chewing up everything fed to me from one side and going along the path of least resistance and most support. Not fucking worth it.
    I'm done.

  5. #405
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    If you don't want to be called a racist, you could possibly avoid constructing obviously personalised arguments that black people commit more crime because they're less smart due to genetics. That would probably be a good place to start.

  6. #406
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: A Former Forest
    Quote Originally Posted by Thor View Post
    And average IQ differences based on what environment they lived in over the span of many millenias. I guess this reality is for the terminally stupid.

    Nobody cares about the actual skin color. If the japanese were blue, how many people would be concerned about them? Fascinated? Sure. We are fascinated by them anyway. Concerned about their health? Maybe (cause it wouldn't make sense and stuff). But that's about it. It would simply add 1 point to how they stand out.
    I would buy into this, BUT only based upon culture. Some cultures are “backward" as compared to others. These same cultures may claim our highly technological culture is evil and full of shit. They would call us backward. It is a relativist (gasp!) idea to hold. Yes, I can be a relativist in some areas. The world is not all black and white. Still looking for those grey people. I see pink, white, very dark brown, coco, latte, yellowish, reddish, and occasionally green on cruise ships on rough seas.

    Anyway, some cultures value farming over all else. An IQ test full of number series may not be the best gauge for them, just as a test of farming skills would be inappropriate for a kid in Los Angeles. Gender and cultural neutral IQ tests have been a dream for decades now. None have succeeded yet. There is always something to nit pick.

    For instance, and sorry this is 100% from memory, about 20 or so years ago a group created a “black” IQ test. Black students from more culturally black areas did much better on this test than the typical “white” IQ test. Conversely, white students taking the test did poorly. The whole thing was to show cultural bias in standard IQ tests. This lead to a flood of calls for many other standardized tests to be altered for cultural bias. And the pandoras box was opened...

  7. #407
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    I'd be careful with tests and questionnaires too. There was a study in the US which showed that ethnic minorities rated their aptitudes lower on questionnaires where they were asked their ethnicity versus the group where that question was omitted. It's astounding how much effect racism can have on people's perceptions throughout a society. The US was a segregated society around 60 years ago and the effects will probably still be felt for decades to come.

  8. #408
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    There is no such thing as a pure test of innate mental capacity or potential for intelligence. All of our tests of intelligence or aptitude involve some testing of facts, skills, or processes that are learned. And all of them can be taught or practiced to some degree. So they are largely tests of education.

    There's lots of data showing that different races perform at different levels on standardized tests, whether they are IQ tests or SATs or whatever. There are also differences in the IQ distributions of men and women (similar mean but women have smaller variance). And there are differences between men and women on other standardized tests such as SAT.

    Race and gender are only two of the many factors which correlate with test performance. But when people wonder whether there is a biological component to test performance, race and gender are the two factors where it's most likely to be found, if it exists. So, are the differences explained entirely by cultural and environmental differences, or is there a biological difference in the ability or inclination to learn, in particular the kinds of facts and skills needed to perform well on standardized tests?

    I don't expect or want an answer. The topic is radioactive, so bright and credible researchers avoid researching it. And frankly, I don't think we really need to know. If we can get to the point where we treat everybody equally and give everybody at least some minimum level of opportunity to succeed, let things sort out the way they will.

  9. #409
    The only universal truth here is that you're all a bunch of whiny biznitches.

  10. #410
    That would be a correct assumption about most religious politicians. I'm personally acquainted with one that I know to be sincere and there's a stark contrast between him and other religious politicians



    Also thought you all might enjoy this


  11. #411
    Since when did the internets become about this? THIS!? You bastards...you ruined it all. Damn you all to to hell!

  12. #412
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Have you seen what's on the news recently? It's batshit pandemonium out there!

  13. #413
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    I know what you mean!...

    Last edited by Vae; 13th May 2016 at 23:23.

  14. #414
    Last time I looked Trump is on course to win the nomination. People are tiring of politically correct politics it seems. Figure that with your brain.

  15. #415
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    This isn't the Scots Taffer we need.

  16. #416
    Hoots man, ya blackie bastard.

  17. #417
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    But it is the Scots Taffer we deserve.

  18. #418
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    Recent polls indicate Trump has a commanding lead among sock puppets and would be ballot stuffers

  19. #419
    You guys have been predicting peak Trump for ages now. No sign of that happening. Anyway Trump is part of the system like the rest.

  20. #420
    Administrator
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Athens of the North
    As an (almost) Highlander there can only be one Scots Taffer.

  21. #421
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: A Former Forest
    Why has Scots-Taffer been banned? Was it another post elsewhere, or a post that has since been deleted? From what I see here, there is no cause. Curious... Just asking... I did see a join date of 2005, but only 9 posts in all that time. A hacker?

  22. #422
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Impersonating another forum member ist verboten.

  23. #423
    Administrator
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Athens of the North
    Yup - to be horribly strict the rules are: "Do not attempt to impersonate other forum members, and forum moderators/administrators. Such an attempt will not be successful and it is an offense that will get you banned from the forums -no ifs, ands, or buts about it."

    The account was clearly originally just for joke post - resurrecting the account, Lazarus-like, after all these years is only going to cause confusion.

  24. #424
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: A Former Forest
    Thanks for the explanations on the bogus "Scots-Taffer". I can guess why someone would want to do that, but why here? Then again, why not.

    Back on topic... Those worried about Trump shouldn't, because he is fully capable of putting his foot in his mouth and blowing the whole deal. He is close to a Perot moment. In contrast, Hillary will either have a stroke or be in jail by November. The scramble to get 2 new candidates will be entertaining. It won't be Bernie on the left though. No way would the powers that be allow that. On the right? I'm not sure who is the biggest kiss ass that would make the Fed happiest. Meanwhile, all the doomsday people are telling us to buy gold. Down $600 a troy ounce over the past 5 years. It's going to get interesting... Me thinks some monks in Tibet are putting curses on the West. Seem to be working, not that we need help imploding. Have a great weekend people.

  25. #425
    Thing is, people have been saying that for a long time about him. At this point it doesn't really matter because it's gone far past logic and reason: people are now emotionally repulsed by the establishment and just want them gone...and it's a worldwide trend, not just a US one (66% of Germans want Merkel gone, Brexit, nationalist politicians in South America, etc).

    Plus Trump's extremely good at manipulating the media. Right now it looks like that "leaked" video of Trump talking with his publicist was actually leaked by Trump himself to troll the media and they fell for it hook line and sinker.



    Also, I want to address one common misconception.

    Here's the thing: It's a HUGE mistake to mischaracterize me as some kind of "right winger". The reason why is that a large amount of my thinking was formed by far left-wing writers like Glenn Greenwald and far left-wing sites like Mother Jones who greatly influenced my views by explaining the importance of due process and not having government involved in the business of dictating how people live their personal lives.

    The main point where I break from them is that I dislike their economic systems: although most systems are terrible socialist governments have, in every single recorded instance, devolved into a xenophobic, bigot-run dictatorship within a matter of years or even months. Parliamentary, representative governments take a lot longer to get there because the checks and balances involved greatly slow down the process and in some cases even allow for leaders to swim "upstream" and restore previously lost liberties.

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