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View Poll Results: How long will Trump be President?

Voters
143. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1 Term (4 Years)

    26 18.18%
  • 2 Terms (8 Years)

    50 34.97%
  • 1st Term Impeachment/Assassination

    50 34.97%
  • 2nd Term Impeachment/Assassination

    4 2.80%
  • I don't know what's going on!

    13 9.09%
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Thread: ✮✮✮ !Trump Dump! ✮✮✮

  1. #526
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    When Slayer goes out of their way to bash Trump, you know things are just flat out crazy. And by flat out crazy I mean like hardcore crazy.

  2. #527
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    The news today was that Trump actively solicited Russia to hack US intelligence.

    We have crossed into an 80s comedy at this point.
    I suppose if he becomes president, he can just personally hand over state secrets.

  3. #528
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    But it's Putin he's handing them to. He's such a cool guy!

  4. #529
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    The question is, can Trump control his mouth for the next two months? He's his own worst enemy at this point.

  5. #530
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    The scariest thing about Trump isn't Trump himself, it's that his attitude and lack of control is what makes him so appealing to some voters.

    Never forget, people: we live in a democracy. We could very well be barreling towards the government we deserve.

  6. #531
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    The news today was that Trump actively solicited Russia to hack US intelligence.
    Your conclusory statement is the result of propaganda from the Clinton campaign...

    “This has to be the first time that a major presidential candidate has actively encouraged a foreign power to conduct espionage against his political opponent. That’s not hyperbole, those are just the facts. This has gone from being a matter of curiosity, and a matter of politics, to being a national security issue.” ~ Jake Sullivan, Clinton Senior Advisor

    Here is what Trump said...

    “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing,” ~ Donald Trump

    1) He is clearly referring to the 30,000 e-mails which disappeared from Hilary Clinton's private server.

    These deleted e-mails are no longer present on a U.S. government server, therefore he cannot be soliciting Russia to hack U.S. Intelligence for these particular e-mails, as it would be an impossible task...Logic dictates he is only asking for Russia to return said e-mails, if in fact they have access to them from a previously successful hack.

    2) Hilary Clinton has previously claimed that the 30,000 e-mails were deleted because they were personal e-mails, as opposed to being work-related classified e-mails.

    The statement from the Clinton campaign..."This has to be the first time that a major presidential candidate has actively encouraged a foreign power to conduct espionage against his political opponent."...is problematic for Clinton, because it suggests that these 30,000 e-mails contain classified information, which contradicts the claim that they were only personal in nature.

    The big news of the day, is that Hilary Clinton has now opened herself up to possible charges of Obstruction of Justice.

  7. #532
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Whereas your conclusory assumption is the result of having a broken sarcasm meter.
    Of course he didn't actively solicit Russian espionage in a literal sense. He just said something galactically stupid.
    He still deserves to be treated like a traitor anyway just for being that dense.

  8. #533
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    He is far more intelligent than you realize...and his trap was successful.

  9. #534
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    He still deserves to be treated like a traitor anyway just for being that dense.
    That's my thought on it.

    It's not actually treason. He wasn't waging war upon us, nor giving aid or succor to our enemies. Considering the current political climate, we should all be thanking God above and yee olde founding fathers that our definition of treason is so limited and specific.

    ...but that doesn't change the fact that what he said was utterly unprofessional, and monumentally stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    He is far more intelligent than you realize...and his trap was successful.
    Oh, I'll give him some credit. He does have a kind of feral cunning about him. But his only saving graces in this situation is that our standards are so much lower now, and we'll all probably have forgotten about it by next week.
    Last edited by Renzatic; 28th Jul 2016 at 03:26.

  10. #535
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    He is far more intelligent than you realize...and his trap was successful.


    He's transparently playing by Berlusconi's playbook. You can't call it a trap if it's that transparent what he's doing. It may be surprising to Americans to whom it honestly never occurred that other countries also have politics, and Trump is mimicking a distinctly un-American brand of it. If it works, it's because it plays to the disgust & exasperated reflex of his target demographic. It's actually a surprisingly simple strategy. The fact he has a monopoly on it has a lot more to do with the curious self-respect that keeps other politicians from exploiting it.

  11. #536
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    You can't call it a trap if it's that transparent what he's doing.
    The trap wasn't transparent to the Clinton campaign...otherwise they wouldn't have taken the bait.

    In the end, Clinton will succumb to her own corruption.

  12. #537
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    Dude, trying to get access to a political opponents emails IS espionage. Calling it that isn't 'admitting' anything. If I found you in my wardrobe I would say you were spying, regardless of what whether I was doing anything worth spying on or not. Trump's a fucking clown, he's not some spider mastermind.

  13. #538
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivian View Post
    Dude, trying to get access to a political opponents emails IS espionage.
    He never said that he was personally trying to get access to her emails. The 30,000 emails could be recovered by the FBI with foreign assistance, without Trump or the Trump campaign ever laying eyes on them.

  14. #539
    Member
    Registered: Jun 1999
    Location: Procrastination, Australia
    I do wonder how we get into these dumb debates over whether the minutiae of some statement or its reaction is 'genius' trap laying or regular political slanging. Especially when I'm pretty sure all involved (referring to the entire internet here) believes they are completely above the intended influence and skewing of reality of All such statements.

    I can be one step further removed again. Politicians have been captious and convenient for the longest time and their fans will find the good in almost anything. Trump's saying what suits his purposes (in all potential meanings. And I don't think his scattergun approach is really in question at this point) and Clinton responds with what suits hers. That's not a "trap" or a well aimed blow. This is all staying in your lane. Let's not be too reverential.

  15. #540
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    Well, I maintain she's still a better choice than trump, but it looks like you're in for some solid political regression either way: https://theintercept.com/2016/07/29/...he-convention/

  16. #541
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    I didn't understand how that was relevant to the argument either. But Tony tends to complain about most forms of social activism, and the two groups he particularly seems to have a problem with are gays and feminists because I keep seeing these anti-LGBT and anti-feminist mini-rants woven into his posts various topics.
    Let's not forget "liberals" since he'll barely go 5 posts without some amazing "and this one is for all of you who think liberals/conservatives* are literal saints/the devil incarnate* tom-foolery (* delete as appropriate).

    If you ignore that tangent, the point he was making is that being conservative does not necessarily equate to supporting the established order.
    Depends what the definition of "established order" is. Also depends on the definition of "conservative". There are many. This is why discussing labels is less interesting than discussing actual concepts.

    In America, we have multiple overlapping forms of conservative. There is the religious right, who associate the term with their social values. There are the small government conservatives. There are right populists. National defense hawks. Law & order types. And various combinations. Most of them don't self-align with the current established order, although they may align with aspects of it.
    See above.

  17. #542
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    Whereas your conclusory assumption is the result of having a broken sarcasm meter.
    Of course he didn't actively solicit Russian espionage in a literal sense. He just said something galactically stupid.
    He still deserves to be treated like a traitor anyway just for being that dense.
    Ooh traitor, that's a big word. I thought you guys were supposed to be citizens of the world? Anti-borders, anti-nations, that sort of thing. Weren't you the same people arguing against Brexit and in favour of the EU? In favour of the destruction of European nations? When it comes to your own nation you seem to be on the defensive. That sounds suspiciously like nationalism to me...

  18. #543
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Poland

  19. #544
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Heil Hydra

  20. #545
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Pacific Northwest
    I guess the DNC was pretty boring by comparison. You'd need to catch Clinton and Monica making out backstage or Sanders tearing off his shirt to reveal a tattoo of Stalin to stand out at this point.

  21. #546
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Quote Originally Posted by Manwe View Post
    Ooh traitor, that's a big word. I thought you guys were supposed to be citizens of the world? Anti-borders, anti-nations, that sort of thing. Weren't you the same people arguing against Brexit and in favour of the EU? In favour of the destruction of European nations? When it comes to your own nation you seem to be on the defensive. That sounds suspiciously like nationalism to me...
    Cooperating with liberal countries like those of Western Europe to mutually build each other & the world up is encouraged.
    Cooperating with illiberal countries like Russia and China to help them tear yourself down is discouraged.
    This is like foreign relations 101 stuff.
    I don't see nations. I see liberal and illiberal.

    But by all means try to convince me that the Russian security service's hack of the DNC emails, transparently designed to help Trump's campaign, was calculated by Russia to lead to a more prosperous and safe US, Russia, Europe, & world by a Trump presidency.

  22. #547
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivian View Post
    OK, before I try and digest all that stuff above me, can everyone who actually claimed the DNC are "pure, morally superior anti-racists" please say aye? Rather than just being a better alternative to Donald Fucking Trump, who is pretty much exactly L Ron Hubbard aimed at a different sector.
    A(moral superiority): All the people deriding the "racists", "Xenophobes", etc. The entire point of that is that anyone "right ring" is simply a nasty, bigoted, hateful individual....unlike the Democrats who care for and love minorities (as long as they vote Democrat).

    B(better than Trump):Again, same thing I've said before. Name me any one thing you're scared about Trump doing and I will raise you something that Hillary and Obama have done that's exponentially worse. Try me. Last time I checked Donald Trump isn't the one who made it official State Department policy to bomb weddings.

  23. #548
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    Whereas your conclusory assumption is the result of having a broken sarcasm meter.
    Of course he didn't actively solicit Russian espionage in a literal sense. He just said something galactically stupid.
    He still deserves to be treated like a traitor anyway just for being that dense.
    So how would you describe taking above Top Secret program files off of government systems, putting them onto a private server, and then ordering the security systems on that server disabled when you know full well that the Russians know about said server?

    That is EXACTLY what Hillary did. It's worth noting that Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were executed on treason charges for the exact same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by faetal View Post
    OK, I've been on holiday and missed most of this, but can I just check that what Tony meant was that I'm only allowed to claim to be against Elitist politics is I become prejudiced against LGBT people?
    Because that is like jumping a rocket-rigged dirt bike over a grand canyon filled with great whites in terms of political discourse.
    Like, I didn't actually reckon Tony could go below ground in a limbo contest, but somehow physics don't apply to him.

    I actually need time to process this one.
    No. Again you're completely missing the point.

    My point is that when the policies you support are almost point for point the exact same policies that the elite want, you should rethink your assessment of yourself as being anti-establishment.


    But by all means try to convince me that the Russian security service's hack of the DNC emails, transparently designed to help Trump's campaign, was calculated by Russia to lead to a more prosperous and safe US, Russia, Europe, & world by a Trump presidency.
    And you all give me shit about "conspiracy theories".......

    Exactly why the hell would they RELEASE the emails?

    Here's the problem with that line of argument: having the emails and not releasing them gives Russia powerful leverage over Hillary Clinton.

    Right now we know that Trump wants peaceful relations with Russia. Hillary is agitating for a war with Russia, having previously advocated that the US shoot down Russian planes and fire on Russian ships.

    It's not in Russia's interest to release the emails. If Russia has proof of extreme malfeasance on Hillary's part(which I am told they do, via hacks into the Clinton Foundation) then their interest would be to hold on to what they have and use it as leverage to discourage Hillary from starting any conflicts with them.

    Of course it is entirely possible that this was simply a small leak to prove they're serious but that is somewhat less likely.


    The most likely scenario is that it's the result of an internal leaker; the probability of that scenario is increased somewhat because one of the individuals involved was recently found dead of two gunshot wounds to the back in D.C.....with no personal belongings stolen (it wasn't a robbery).




    Sidenote: This hatred for Russia is somewhat amusing. The entire period from the 30's onward has been characterized by nothing but fawning praise for Russia from the academic and journalistic left wing worldwide. Hell, all the way up until the late 90's you can find any number of pieces written fawning over how remarkably efficient, just, equitable, etc. etc. the Soviet System was and how America has a lot to learn from Russian Socialism.

    Now just in the past four years the left's attitude towards Russia has gone from reverential to sheer hatred. Why?

    That's not a rhetorical question. I understand the geopolitical shifts but I don't understand how the "professional thinkers" in the left would shift their sentiments so dramatically in such a short period of time.
    Last edited by Tony_Tarantula; 31st Jul 2016 at 08:01.

  24. #549
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Hillary was acting out of inertia not malicious intent, but using a private server was dumb of her to do too. I'm not going to defend it.

    The small leak to show they're serious would be in line with a pattern. https://www.wired.com/2016/03/inside...es-power-grid/

    Edit. Incidently, I think everyone can at least agree this campaign poster is all levels of great.
    Last edited by demagogue; 31st Jul 2016 at 10:06.

  25. #550
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    No. Again you're completely missing the point.

    My point is that when the policies you support are almost point for point the exact same policies that the elite want, you should rethink your assessment of yourself as being anti-establishment.
    Seems I'm not missing the point at all and you really are that dense. I'm against murder too, does this mean I'm pro-establishment? Your blind spot is in thinking that LGBT rights are somehow some kind of special extra rather than simply treating humans equally. If "The Establishment" is also into that, then that is one area where "The Establishment" doesn't bother me. I'm guessing they also like food and think swimming should be legal.

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