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View Poll Results: How long will Trump be President?

Voters
144. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1 Term (4 Years)

    26 18.06%
  • 2 Terms (8 Years)

    51 35.42%
  • 1st Term Impeachment/Assassination

    50 34.72%
  • 2nd Term Impeachment/Assassination

    4 2.78%
  • I don't know what's going on!

    13 9.03%
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Thread: ✮✮✮ !Trump Dump! ✮✮✮

  1. #751
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    The product, is being able to own a piece of the President of the United States of America...any other preferences, are secondary to this purchasing of power.

  2. #752
    Member
    Registered: Mar 1999
    Location: I can't find myself
    A piece of the President of the USA is only as valuable as the USA is. President Trump would have a significant devaluing effect, and anybody with half a brain knows this.

  3. #753
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    It is the most powerful and influential position one can obtain in the western world...The objective powers of the President of the United States, are independent of the person that holds office.

    Like many others, the Koch Brothers are buying the future use of inherent presidential powers to advance their own agenda...from a willing, corrupt politician, known as Hillary Clinton.

  4. #754
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    The product, is being able to own a piece of the President of the United States of America...
    Or, y'know, a piece of a guy who once ran for president and lost.

    Trump has already sold out his stated principles to beg for money (one of those stated principles was not begging for money). Evidence that Hillary has done the same is relatively scant; depends mostly on what conspiracy theories you subscribe to rather than any hard facts. The money isn't flowing more to her because she's more buyable, it's flowing to her because she's more likely to win.

  5. #755
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: cesspool
    Trump will win. It's in general trend of the western world's accelerating idiocy and infantilism, you can't do anything about it until idiots get what they wanted.

  6. #756
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    Or, y'know, a piece of a guy who once ran for president and lost.

    Trump has already sold out his stated principles to beg for money (one of those stated principles was not begging for money). Evidence that Hillary has done the same is relatively scant; depends mostly on what conspiracy theories you subscribe to rather than any hard facts. The money isn't flowing more to her because she's more buyable, it's flowing to her because she's more likely to win.
    Are you off your rocker? You don't even need to look at this more recently. The Clintons have an extremely long history of favoritism towards Wall Street. They are the ones responsible for making student loans survive bankruptcy, for erasing the lines between investment banking and commercial banking (directly leading to the 2008 crash), and so on. She has done more to protect and enable Wall Street's behavior than any other candidate in the last 30 years and you think she isn't at all corrupt?


    That said I think it's bizarre that she's even running. This cycle you had any number of viable candidates on the Democratic Party. All of them had legitimate left-wing positions that would have taken America left of Europe. All of them had established track records and political experience. All had platforms more substantial than "It's my turn". All of them polled dramatically higher favorability ratings than Hillary and had far more enthusiastic grassroots support, and any of them would win against Trump in a landslide.....yet the DNC pushed hard for Hillary anyway. Every single superdelegate supported her. In fact they were so desperate to support her that there are now a number of suspicious deaths associated with the efforts to deny Sanders the nomination.

    The fact that she's even in the race is a fairly strong indicator that the DNC no longer represents its ideological constituents and instead works for the benefit of intra-party special interests.

    Yes, Hillary would be a status quo president. I won't argue that we need a change, but voting Trump for the simple sake of said change is like burning your house down because you think the carpet is ugly.

    I see her presidency as a holding pattern. It's better to deal with the devil we know while we wait for something better to come our way. It's the same line of reasoning the Koch brothers are taking, which, considering their rather begrudging endorsement, should illustrate just how unfit for the presidency Trump and his ilk actually are.
    Hillary is a holding pattern in the same way that heading for a train wreck and not hitting the brakes is. She just called for military action against Russia, something likely to result in World War 3.

    Regarding the sentiment it is important, regardless of how you feel about Trump, to understand what's driving it. Remember that I'm in a position similar to you where I'm white collar and have a very high paying job lined up. For people like us, status quo is a good thing. We aren't directly suffering from the current trends aside from things like having to pay a bit more for services and goods, so maybe we have to downgrade from first class to business class on our next vacation. It's quite tolerable.

    You're in Atlanta right? Take a road trip hugging the western and southern borders of Georgia and you'll see a completely different perspective if you take the time to work some of the rooms in the local towns and chat people up. Failing that just get out of Buckhead and spend some time in the poorer south side neighborhoods in Atlanta. Do ANYTHING to try to get a perspective outside what I call the "yuppie bubble".

    You run into business owners who were destroyed by the real estate crash, factory and farm workers who were laid off, and any number of former professionals who no longer have work. There are an enormous number of families out there who were previously financially comfortable and had a realistic chance of their children seeing upwards mobility. Now many of them are working multiple part time, minimum wage jobs, have been forced into lower quality housing, see exploding drugs and crime in their towns, and have their children trapped in toxic school systems. What was once a bright future for their children now looks like a future where their families will be wage serfs to corporate robber barons for the foreseeable future with no prospects of bettering their lives.

    For the enormous swathes of the country stuck in this situation it isn't burning down your house because you think the carpet's ugly. It's more burning down your house because it's about to collapse on your head anyway.

    Keep that in mind: I am advocating for policies that are not in my personal best interest. A lot of both Trump and Johnson's policies would directly result in my bonus pool being smaller every year than it otherwise would be in addition to eliminating many of the jobs available in one extremely lucrative exit opportunity. The main reason I do so is because that outcome is better than the mass civil unrest or global war that the current trend is headed towards. The other reason is that due to my previous experience many of my good friends and mentors are blue collar minorities from underprivileged backgrounds. Those people would be more than willing to take a bullet for me so I'd be happy to take a financial hit to make their lives better.
    Last edited by Tony_Tarantula; 7th Sep 2016 at 09:35.

  7. #757
    Member
    Registered: Mar 1999
    Location: I can't find myself
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    In fact they were so desperate to support her that there are now a number of suspicious deaths associated with the efforts to deny Sanders the nomination.
    You're going to need to provide a citation for a claim as bugnuts insane as this. From a source other than Alex Jones or Breitbart.

    Sanders lost the nomination because he lost the nomination. When it's mathematically impossible to get a nomination without super-delegates, you've lost. Plain and simple. Even if the superdelegates were compelled to vote in line with delegates like an electoral college, Sanders still would've lost. Secondly: there is no law requiring a political party to hold primaries. If the DNC was so hellbent on making Hillary the nominee, they could've just, y'know, not held primaries and made her the nominee.

    The other reason is that due to my previous experience many of my good friends and mentors are blue collar minorities from underprivileged backgrounds. Those people would be more than willing to take a bullet for me so I'd be happy to take a financial hit to make their lives better.
    And you're voting for...Trump? You should just shoot your friends in the head for all the good a vote for Trump will do to make their lives better. At least their families would get a life insurance pay out.

  8. #758
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Donald Trump's National Security speech, in Philadelphia...


  9. #759
    Quote Originally Posted by Fafhrd View Post
    You're going to need to provide a citation for a claim as bugnuts insane as this. From a source other than Alex Jones or Breitbart.

    Sanders lost the nomination because he lost the nomination. When it's mathematically impossible to get a nomination without super-delegates, you've lost. Plain and simple. Even if the superdelegates were compelled to vote in line with delegates like an electoral college, Sanders still would've lost. Secondly: there is no law requiring a political party to hold primaries. If the DNC was so hellbent on making Hillary the nominee, they could've just, y'know, not held primaries and made her the nominee.

    And you're voting for...Trump? You should just shoot your friends in the head for all the good a vote for Trump will do to make their lives better. At least their families would get a life insurance pay out.
    Wikileaks DNC emails. They have built a searchable database you know. If you refuse to use it now that you know this you aren't even worth arguing with because I know you will willingly reject any relevant information that doesn't help your "side".

    Besides which what you talk about was the whole damn point of instituting the superdelegate rules. That way the party still gets whatever nominee they want while providing their uneducated voters the illusion of choice. The argument "bernie sanders lost because he lost" isn't accurate because the Superdelegates could very easily have given the nomination and no small part of the reason the vote fell the way it did was Sanders voters sitting it out because they felt the superdelegate system was rigged....not to mention the entire establishment media rabidly backing Hillary.

    Don't believe that I'm describing the Bernie sentiment accurately? I'm getting it from the Bernie facebook groups I was in on Facebook and other social media.


    Regarding Hillary, her agenda is even more terrifying than you think it is. The Republican neocon leaders are backing Hillary because they think she will escalate military tensions with Russia. I shit you not.

    https://theintercept.com/2016/07/25/...llary-clinton/

    You people really are amazing. Just because she calls herself a "Democrat" you're willing to support and defend the same things you ripped Dubya apart for.
    Last edited by Tony_Tarantula; 8th Sep 2016 at 12:33.

  10. #760
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Seriously though, if it's that or Trump*, doesn't it scarcely matter if she's any good or not?

    *Fucking Trump**

    **Donald Actual Fucking Trump

  11. #761
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Meanwhile, Trump gets a brilliant idea how to defeat ISIS:

    "If we would've taken the oil, you wouldn't have ISIS. Because ISIS formed with the power and the wealth of that oil."

    "We would leave a certain group behind and you would take various sections where they have the oil: "They have-- I-- people don't know this about Iraq. But they have among the largest oil reserves in the world-- in the entire world... You know, it used to be the victor belong the spoils."

  12. #762
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    So brilliant the US has already been bombing ISIS's oil fields for the last two years & sucking their finances dry.
    Well I guess I'll hand it to him for coming up with a legit idea, even if it is oldhat & already done.
    A broken clock and all...

  13. #763
    Member
    Registered: Mar 1999
    Location: I can't find myself
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    Wikileaks DNC emails. They have built a searchable database you know. If you refuse to use it now that you know this you aren't even worth arguing with because I know you will willingly reject any relevant information that doesn't help your "side".
    Yeah, no. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and the burden of proof is on you, since you're the one making the claim. That's how argumentation works.

    I'll give you an example: When I say 'there is evidence that a percentage of the leaked DNC e-mails were doctored by the state sponsored Russian hackers who obtained them, so you can't trust anything from them' I can back that up by citing this article on Motherboard, or even this tweet by Wikileaks themselves (hint: state.goy is not a State Department domain.)

    But if you say 'look it up yourself' when someone challenges your claim, you've forfeited the argument.

    You people really are amazing. Just because she calls herself a "Democrat" you're willing to support and defend the same things you ripped Dubya apart for
    Dubya unilaterally invaded two countries, one of which had absolutely nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. Putin has an established record of expansionism that directly threatens our NATO allies (not to mention the whole 'regularly murdering journalists who are critical of him and political opponents, and resurrecting PRAVDA as "Russia Today"' thing), and Hillary wants to, y'know, actually honour our treaties.

    If you think there's no difference between invading a country under false pretenses and defending our allies from being invaded, you are about as stupid as Trump is. And let's all keep in mind that Trump's stance on Putin is, and I quote, "If he says great things about me, I'm going to say great things about him."

  14. #764
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    This isn't about defending our NATO allies from being invaded. The point of the article was that all the foreign policy hawks are lining up behind Clinton in hope of a more interventionist foreign policy that is more overtly aggressive towards Russia. Libya was mentioned as a positive example of her style. These people are hoping to send the military after Bashar al-Assad and arms to Ukraine. The guy at the center of the article, Bob Kagan, is like a Democrat version of Bill Kristol. He beat the war drum into Iraq and still defends it. And his wife is Victoria Nuland, the former Cheney aide that Clinton promoted to top State Department spokesperson. She's now Assistant Secretary of State for Europe who made the famous "fuck the EU" phone call that the Russians leaked when trying to blame us for engineering the overthrow of Viktor Yanukovych. It bothers me a lot that the people mentioned in the article have Hillary Clinton's ear. At this point, the best I can hope for is that she continues an Obama/Kerry like foreign policy. But that seems unlikely.

  15. #765
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    Well I guess I'll hand it to him for coming up with a legit idea, even if it is oldhat & already done.
    A broken clock and all...
    Sure, invading and occupying other countries for their resources is pretty old, but you have to admire the honesty -- no "searching for WMDs" or "bringing democracy" or "getting rid of a dictator" bullshit. It's straight up, "They have oil, we could use the oil, we should take the oil by force." That is, unless he was being "sarcastic" again.

  16. #766
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    I guess he thinks you just send a fleet of tanker trucks out in the desert and roll up to each well head to take the oil.

    The guy is such a laughing stock. There is just no end to stupid Trump quotes. But it doesn't matter. The nominees could be Lord Voldemort and Sauron and we'd still have people lining up to defend them solely because of what team they're playing for.

  17. #767
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Sauron is an industrialist. Sure, he has a tendency to go too far on occasion, but his years of experiences in business, leadership, and nation building make him the preferable candidate. What's Voldemort in comparison? A cult leader with a few party favor tricks up his sleeve, sporting delusional Third Reich aspirations.

    Sauron 2016!

  18. #768
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    You know, I meant the above to be totally tongue in cheek. But when I reread it, it kinda dawned on me that, yeah...it's...it's maybe a little too uncomfortably apt in describing our current situation.

    I'm so scared.

  19. #769
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2000
    Location: Portreath Cornwall UK
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Meanwhile, Trump gets a brilliant idea how to defeat ISIS:

    "If we would've taken the oil, you wouldn't have ISIS. Because ISIS formed with the power and the wealth of that oil."

    "We would leave a certain group behind and you would take various sections where they have the oil: "They have-- I-- people don't know this about Iraq. But they have among the largest oil reserves in the world-- in the entire world... You know, it used to be the victor belong the spoils."
    He has discovered colonalism

  20. #770
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    Sauron is an industrialist. Sure, he has a tendency to go too far on occasion, but his years of experiences in business, leadership, and nation building make him the preferable candidate. What's Voldemort in comparison? A cult leader with a few party favor tricks up his sleeve, sporting delusional Third Reich aspirations.

    Sauron 2016!
    Ooh, do Gary Johnson!

  21. #771
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Johnson would be like Saruman. An important figure in a small but widespread organization who has experience pandering to both sides. He tries striking out on his own, but ends up falling flat on his face after putting his all into one great big failed push, and is soon forgotten. No one really liked him anyway, because he doesn't have Sauron's power and influence, nor Voldemort's blunt charisma and cult of personality.

  22. #772
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Sure, invading and occupying other countries for their resources is pretty old, but you have to admire the honesty.
    Ah, I guess I read him too quickly, and I take it back.

    Of course the whole point of the American bombing campaign was to destroy oil production & exactly so we wouldn't need to put any boots on the ground. Going in to occupy it is just what we don't want to do.

    And one of the major lessons from Bush II's Iraq War II was that Iraqi oil doesn't pay for shit when you have to rebuild a country and has a terrible ROI.

    But lest we forget, he's on record as an opponant of the Iraq War too and regularly called it a collasal mistake by lying idiots, and said he has no interest in foreign interventions. But then again, he's also on record as saying we're going to win so many wars you wouldn't believe. We'll win so many it gets boring.

    Basically, he gets a feel from the crowd and says whatever he thinks they want to hear. He's completely detatched from anything like consistent policy thinking. He could watch Russian tanks pour into Ukraine & the Baltic States & wouldn't bat an eye because what business is it of the US, but start a ridiculous war with N. Korea, Iran, or the Philippines, sure why not, because their leaders insulted him, which they'd do no matter what.

  23. #773
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    Iraqi oil doesn't pay for shit when you have to rebuild a country and has a terrible ROI.
    From the perspective of the public purse, yes. But from the perspective of the business contracted to do that rebuilding, it's a huge windfall. The primary purpose of modern war is after all to transfer public money to private entities, be it in arms purchases or rebuilding contracts. It's a massive wealth transfer mechanism.

  24. #774
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: cesspool
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    These people are hoping to send .... arms to Ukraine.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budape...ity_Assurances

    Even though there wasn't a direct obligation to help militarily, there is a moral aspect to it, I guess.
    Last edited by 242; 10th Sep 2016 at 11:54.

  25. #775
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    Location: Minecraft
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    You know, I meant the above to be totally tongue in cheek. But when I reread it, it kinda dawned on me that, yeah...it's...it's maybe a little too uncomfortably apt in describing our current situation.

    I'm so scared.
    Then vote Cthulhu! Your souls will be harvested first and you'll be spared the pain, anguish and insanity inflicted on the rest of humanity for all eternity!

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