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View Poll Results: How long will Trump be President?

Voters
143. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1 Term (4 Years)

    26 18.18%
  • 2 Terms (8 Years)

    50 34.97%
  • 1st Term Impeachment/Assassination

    50 34.97%
  • 2nd Term Impeachment/Assassination

    4 2.80%
  • I don't know what's going on!

    13 9.09%
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Thread: ✮✮✮ !Trump Dump! ✮✮✮

  1. #801
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Meanwhile, Trump used his tax-deductible charitable foundation to buy himself a $20,000 painting - of himself. The Onion has nothing on the established facts about this guy.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...b62_story.html

  2. #802
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Jews? Muslims? They're all the same, aren't they?

  3. #803
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    These people:
    Nope. That is not a reference for my conclusion.

    Renz, you're not in a position to speak for me...At this time, I am simply making a statement...and in time, I will almost certainly be proven correct. This will result with you, driver, Pyrian, and everyone else in the entire world recognizing this as true.

    For now, just be patient...and don't make the critical mistake that I've been influenced by some crazy conspiracy theory, rather than arriving at my conclusions independently via my own methods.

  4. #804
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Pyrian, I'm gonna copy/paste something I said elsewhere, since it's fitting here.

    Trump fans, and the deluded idiots that have come to surround him have constructed a rather convenient way to disregard any evidence contrary to their beliefs. See, anything that doesn't come from one of their favored sites will be immediately considered suspect, a false narrative constructed by the so called MSM to lull people into continually voting for the always harmful status quo.

    Now we all do this to some extent, but they've built it into a core component of their ideology. Anything they don't agree with can be easily dismissed as a lie, and until you provide proof from a source they approve of, then anything you say in response to their presented arguments can be just as easily dismissed. It makes them impossible to argue against, because they'll only accept a counterpoint that falls within their rather comfortable, conveniently self-affirming standards.

    If I assume everyone is being lied to as a default, and only I and my little special group of people have access to the unvarnished truth, and the wisdom to believe it when we see it, then anything presented in opposition of what I and we believe are just more lies from those other people who are stupid enough to believe them, and can therefore be ignored. It's so perfectly circular.

    ...or to put it more simply, I'll never believe anything you say because I know I'm right, and I know you're wrong. If I knew I were wrong, then I wouldn't be right now, would I? Even more insidious, they project this attitude upon other people, calling them, always, The Intolerant, Close-Minded Boogymen of the Left.
    See, it doesn't matter how self serving Trump actually is. He's held up as the paragon of their Great America, and there's nothing you can do to convince them otherwise. It doesn't matter how not-that-sick Hillary is. All their various newssites, that usually have the word Freedom, Liberty, Truth, blah blah blah have said she is. If you provide a more reputable source, like from one of the major networks, or old newspapers, it's dismissed as MSM lies.

    People like Tony have perfectly shielded themselves from contrary opinion, and disputing facts. They know the truth. You don't. You're wrong.

    Though by writing this up this little diatribe about them, I'm guilty of dismissing their beliefs, silencing their opinions, and am therefore yet another Leftist who can't handle a viewpoint different from my own.

    It is. SO. Perfectly circular.
    Last edited by Renzatic; 12th Sep 2016 at 00:45.

  5. #805
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    Nope. That is not a reference for my conclusion.

    Renz, you're not in a position to speak for me...At this time, I am simply making a statement...and in time, I will almost certainly be proven correct. This will result with you, driver, Pyrian, and everyone else in the entire world recognizing this as true.

    For now, just be patient...and don't make the critical mistake that I've been influenced by some crazy conspiracy theory, rather than arriving at my conclusions independently via my own methods.
    If she keels over tomorrow, I'll admit I was wrong. Hell, if Trump ends up being a great president, I'll be on here kissing every Trump fan's ass publicly and sloppily. Cuz, you know, I don't want the country to crash and burn. Hoping it does so just because my guy/gal wasn't elected is idiocy of the worst sort.

    But right now, at this very moment, Hillary's alleged health issues are looking like nothing more than conjecture and innuendo presented as fact, based upon armchair diagnosis from so-called experts made from afar, for the convenience of crass political gain.
    Last edited by Renzatic; 12th Sep 2016 at 00:45.

  6. #806
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    Location: Minecraft
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    Nope. That is not a reference for my conclusion.

    Renz, you're not in a position to speak for me...At this time, I am simply making a statement...and in time, I will almost certainly be proven correct. This will result with you, driver, Pyrian, and everyone else in the entire world recognizing this as true.

    For now, just be patient...and don't make the critical mistake that I've been influenced by some crazy conspiracy theory, rather than arriving at my conclusions independently via my own methods.
    You've made a statement, claiming it to be true, I'm just asking for your proof. Show us your methods, how did you reach this conclusion? Saying 'Wait and see' isn't proof. Pointing at a YouTube clip of a woman stumbling isn't grounds for a diagnosis of Parkinson's. That might be enough for you, but my standards are a teeny bit higher. That's why Med school takes years to finish, you can't get a diploma from looking at 30 second video clips.

  7. #807
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Pacific Northwest

  8. #808
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    independently via my own methods.
    That's usually code for confirmation bias.

  9. #809
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    For now, just be patient...and don't make the critical mistake that I've been influenced by some crazy conspiracy theory, rather than arriving at my conclusions independently via my own methods.
    If it's not conspiracy theories, are these methods then following some form of "it must be true because I want it to be true"? Because as we saw with the Underworld Ascendant schedule, the track record is not really spotless: http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145171
    Last edited by Starker; 12th Sep 2016 at 07:32.

  10. #810
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Y'all can say that. But do you know where Hillary was on 9/11? I know for a fact she was seen coming out of the lobby of WTC 7 earlier that cruel morning. What was she doing there, I ask you.


    Search your feelings.

    You know it to be true.

    #jetFuelCan'tMeltKillary'sSteelHeart

  11. #811
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Lockdown... if only
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    Pyrian, I'm gonna copy/paste something I said elsewhere, since it's fitting here.

    Trump fans, and the deluded idiots that have come to surround him have constructed a rather convenient way to disregard any evidence contrary to their beliefs. See, anything that doesn't come from one of their favored sites will be immediately considered suspect, a false narrative constructed by the so called MSM to lull people into continually voting for the always harmful status quo.

    Now we all do this to some extent, but they've built it into a core component of their ideology. Anything they don't agree with can be easily dismissed as a lie, and until you provide proof from a source they approve of, then anything you say in response to their presented arguments can be just as easily dismissed. It makes them impossible to argue against, because they'll only accept a counterpoint that falls within their rather comfortable, conveniently self-affirming standards.

    If I assume everyone is being lied to as a default, and only I and my little special group of people have access to the unvarnished truth, and the wisdom to believe it when we see it, then anything presented in opposition of what I and we believe are just more lies from those other people who are stupid enough to believe them, and can therefore be ignored. It's so perfectly circular.

    ...or to put it more simply, I'll never believe anything you say because I know I'm right, and I know you're wrong. If I knew I were wrong, then I wouldn't be right now, would I? Even more insidious, they project this attitude upon other people, calling them, always, The Intolerant, Close-Minded Boogymen of the Left.
    This isn't unique to Trump supporters though. Recall the "vast right-wing conspiracy" excuse that Clinton supporters have been using as a crutch since 1992. Neither side in this election is prepared to face the flaws of their candidate. I think most voters don't really want to know how the sausage is made. They see in the candidates what they want to see.

  12. #812
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    I don't see anything inherently wrong with deciding that one source is credible and another source is not credible. But that should be decided on the basis of accuracy, not ideology or straight-up partisanship.

  13. #813
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    This isn't unique to Trump supporters though. Recall the "vast right-wing conspiracy" excuse that Clinton supporters have been using as a crutch since 1992. Neither side in this election is prepared to face the flaws of their candidate. I think most voters don't really want to know how the sausage is made. They see in the candidates what they want to see.
    I think the biggest problem is that, over the last 8 years, most voters have seen exactly how that sausage is made. The old adage proves to be true: they don't like it. Especially when it concerns Hillary, who's sausage making process is one of the most heavily exposed of any candidate in recent history.

    You know, I wanted to write up this long post about the uglier far ends of our political spectrum, both the left and the right, and explain how, despite their presentation, they're a helluva lot more similar than they are dissimilar. But I'm feeling lazy, so I'm just going to write up a pithy quip: It's like the worst of 4chan and Tumblr have leaked out into the real world, and are ruining this election.

    I tend to pick on the right leaning 4chan type people more, because they have a much heavier political presence. Hell, they even have their own candidate in Trump. But if next election season gives us a candidate who wants to regulate safe spaces, and define microaggressions as punitive transgressions (which we may very well see as a response to a Trump presidency), I'll be just as vocal about them.

    We really need to stop this recent trend of proposing extreme solutions to moderate problems.

  14. #814
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Lockdown... if only
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    I don't see anything inherently wrong with deciding that one source is credible and another source is not credible. But that should be decided on the basis of accuracy, not ideology or straight-up partisanship.
    I don't disagree. I just think most voters form a favorable or unfavorable image of the candidate based on little more than party affiliation and personality and then trust or distrust sources based on confirmation bias. Researching what's accurate and what's not accurate takes effort. It also leads you where issues are complex and multi-faceted, policy-making is messy business, and everything is shades of grey. I think most people prefer like their voting decisions to be simple. If you're a partisan, you vote for your party. If you're an independent, and you don't like the way things are going, you vote the bums out.

  15. #815
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    You know, I wanted to write up this long post about the uglier far ends of our political spectrum, both the left and the right, and explain how, despite their presentation, they're a helluva lot more similar than they are dissimilar.
    The far left isn't taking over the Democratic party, while control of the Republican party is devolving into a contest between various elements of the far right, with the moderate right barely even at the table any more.

  16. #816
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Yeah. The idiot left is mostly confined to groups on college campuses, and social media. The idiot right, in comparison, has already made some heavy inroads into Washington, worrying as that is.

    My biggest fear is that if one manages to entrench itself in our everyday lives, then the other will inevitably garner popularity as a countermeasure. We'll have two intolerant extremes pushing against each other, distorting and squeezing out everything else between them. The end result would make the Obama/Congress gridlock look absolutely tame in comparison.

  17. #817
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Well, the culture war has been raging since the 90's already. It's about as entrenched as it can be.

  18. #818
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    It's taken on some weird dimensions here these last few years, though.

    Goddamn millennials and their fucking trendy weepy-weepy internet bullshit. Between them, and all the pro-white survivalist types who want to revert everything back to 1892 standards, we're all kinda screwed.

  19. #819
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Lockdown... if only
    Even with Sanders' strong run this year, the true far left hasn't had much impact on this election. I'm thinking mostly of the Occupy movement and also the anarchist types who would show up at WTO meetings and loot & vandalize local businesses and burn cars and stuff, then jump on Indymedia to post about police brutality. They've been quiet this year.

    I'm not so worried about the intolerant extremes fighting each other. What worries me most about Trump's nomination is that it seems to solidify the Tea Party's control of the Republican party, and drives the moderate and "establishment" pols out of the party. It will also drive their voters over to the Democratic party, where they will strengthen the New Democrats' hold on the party, leaving progressives nowhere to go. We could end up with the "haves" controlling the Democratic party and having the demographics to hold power for a long time, while the Republican party becomes a party of "have nots". That could be dangerous.

  20. #820
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Sanders is strange in his politics. What he represents isn't anything new. He comes across as something of a radical these days, at least to some people, simply because our political compass has drifted so far to the right since 9/11. In reality, he's more representative of an older center-left, with a good deal of modern social stances thrown in for flavor.

    As for the fate of the Republican party, it's still up in the air, though it's far from all being doom and gloom. If the Tea Party does co-opt the brand, I have a feeling that the more relatively centrist Republicans, the old heart of the party now referred to as cucks and RINOs, will eventually drift over to the Libertarian party, and probably bring it more towards the center-right.

    The new Tea Party lead Republicans will, in turn, probably make a big push at first, and grab some ground. But they'll stumble at some point, and end being relegated to the dustbin of history. Their party policy is based primarily around blaming everyone else around them for the ills of the country, and putting people in their proper place. Historically, politics such as theirs usually don't last long in America.

  21. #821
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    It's taken on some weird dimensions here these last few years, though.
    It's the internet. It provides wonderful echo chambers, it can be a battlefield without consequences and, above all, it's convenient. You don't even have to be political(ly active) to take part. You can take something that has very little significance in the real world and make it a huge death and life issue, whether it's the colour of a dress or a line in a work of fiction.

  22. #822
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Oh, it's the internet. I have no doubt about that. The problem is it's no longer something that festers in the dark, weird corners of it anymore. It's starting to leak out into the real world, and take center stage.

    While I don't think this populist bullshit upsurge is something that'll effect us greatly from a historical perspective, it could still blow up in our faces just enough that we're dealing with the fallout 10-20 years from now.

  23. #823
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Lockdown... if only
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    Sanders is strange in his politics. What he represents isn't anything new. He comes across as something of a radical these days, at least to some people, simply because our political compass has drifted so far to the right since 9/11. In reality, he's more representative of an older center-left, with a good deal of modern social stances thrown in for flavor.
    His ideas are nothing new, but they're only now starting to get traction because of the recession and income inequality. Social democrats were marginalized in the 1980s and 1990s because times were good, the middle class was strong, most people had seen their standard of living increase over their life, and even people at the bottom could find full-time jobs with benefits in the service sector. That's gone, and we're heading towards another Gilded Age. Twenty years ago, I was more libertarian-leaning and thought Bernie Sanders was out of touch. And this year, I voted for him. I don't think my values have changed that much, but the situation has. I still value economic freedom, I just don't think that current policies promote it. They seem to be leading to modern serfdom instead. So I think economic populism is good for the country right now, and some form of redistribution is necessary to provide economic opportunity. The Romney Republicans, who are still brushing it off as class envy, are the ones who are out of touch now.

    I think this country needs a populist movement right now, just not a reactionary xenophobic nationalistic one. What bothers me, is that it looks like the Republican party is going to become the populist party, while the Democratic party will be even more of an establishment party. So right populism will have a strong political voice, while left populism will be suppressed.

  24. #824
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    Goddamn millennials and their fucking trendy weepy-weepy internet bullshit.
    Everything that a generation of kids sees and hears, in America, via the many daily media outlets in our everyday existences, tv, food, clothes, everything with a trademark, is ultimately determined and enacted by the groups of people who have all of the glorious money.

    Is it any wonder then, that along with what you have just described, Obama has advanced the gay agenda by leaps and bounds, and that the community will revere him forever? emo, weepy-weepy internet, yes, gay marriage across the board, boys encouraged to enter girls bathrooms, only if that child is a gay crossdresser, mind you...



    And as awesome as all that Republican Democrat knowledge that is constantly and so eloquenty thrown around may seem, yeah its all bullshit and I feel bad for the many who are prey to it.

    Those guys with all of our glorious money? They set it up this way on purpose, and they are counting on all of you to keep it going, and oh so eloquently, I might add. So, thanks for that. I vote independent *everything* *everytime* dont even need to see the name, just like you guys! If there is no independent, I dont vote.

  25. #825
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    Not voting means you never get to complain, or even comment. You realise that right? You've opted out of the process. I'm not even sure you really count as a citizen. It's definitely bad form.

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