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View Poll Results: How long will Trump be President?

Voters
116. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1 Term (4 Years)

    22 18.97%
  • 2 Terms (8 Years)

    34 29.31%
  • 1st Term Impeachment/Assassination

    46 39.66%
  • 2nd Term Impeachment/Assassination

    2 1.72%
  • I don't know what's going on!

    12 10.34%
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Thread: ✮✮✮ !Trump Dump! ✮✮✮

  1. #9776
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: East Coast Elite :D
    As Mr. Trump began exploring a presidential run in 2014, his political advisers landed on the idea of a border wall as a mnemonic device of sorts, a way to make sure their candidate — who hated reading from a script but loved boasting about himself and his talents as a builder — would remember to talk about getting tough on immigration, which was to be a signature issue in his nascent campaign.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/05/u...rder-wall.html

    It was never about a real wall, it was always a metaphor for how Americans felt/feel about immigration and dogwhistle politics. The procurement of property alone is going to be/would be a colossal pain. There is a greenway project near me that was budgeted for 20 million or so but they re-evaluated the cost recently after the completion of a light rail project and realized they are 70 million short and its a ~26 mile greenway project. The 5.6 billion dollar number is to fucking put the thing on layaway, the real price would be insane. The thing is, he will win in a way by being denied, especially if he gets this particular amount of money because he'll be able to claim that he was prevented from doing it right. When it doesn't work (as there is no rational evidence it would) he'll never be held accountable because he was prevented from doing it correctly and we'll have to hear about that forever.

    Its interesting to me that any topic, no matter how insane, becomes a topic of academic debate when the president proposes it. It becomes important just because of they say it, no matter how stupid it would be if anyone else said it. Despite knowing the genesis of the idea we still have to debate its merits even though its no better than what your drunken racist uncle might come up with over thanksgiving before being told to shut up by your aunt. Every day on NPR I listen to smart people discuss his stupidity endlessly just because he's the president. When asked questions to which the answer is "who knows he's a fucking moron who is winging it every day" they have to give a measured, reasonable answer that is given more thought than the actual proposed "policy".

  2. #9777
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    It's not a metaphor to Trump and his core. It is a very real wall to Trump and his core. It is a very real wall preventing the US government from operating right now, too.

    I think his detractors respond to his stupidity with measured reason because the other option is to reply with more stupidity. I heard it said the other day, Trump's critics take him literally but not seriously. His supporters take him seriously but not literally.

  3. #9778
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    On the upside, you get to talk and learn about all kinds of issues along the way. I've been learning a lot since I got interested in US politics just by listening to smart people discuss Lord Dampnut's antics.

  4. #9779
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Location, Location
    Dismissing and ridiculing Trump and his claims without engaging them only lets him reach more ears. That's part of what went down in 2016. Trump was so obviously an absurd, pandering clown with no head for civil office that there was no need to worry about him; the bullshit he was peddling couldn't possibly fly in our modern era. Now look.

    We really underestimated just how much ignorance there is in American society. There's a lot of reinventing-the-wheel having to happen now because people have been allowed to forget (or never learn in the first place) why things were the way they were in government policy. It's going to be a long, slow, painful process getting America back up to speed while making persistent use of the only tool that effectively roots out and kills malicious ignorance: rational scrutiny.

  5. #9780
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Does the FBI engaging Trump for being a threat to the security of the USA count?

    Agents and senior F.B.I. officials had grown suspicious of Mr. Trump’s ties to Russia during the 2016 campaign but held off on opening an investigation into him, the people said, in part because they were uncertain how to proceed with an inquiry of such sensitivity and magnitude. But the president’s activities before and after Mr. Comey’s firing in May 2017, particularly two instances in which Mr. Trump tied the Comey dismissal to the Russia investigation, helped prompt the counterintelligence aspect of the inquiry, the people said.

  6. #9781
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Trance View Post
    We really underestimated just how much ignorance there is in American society.
    I don't.

  7. #9782
    I came across something some of you guys may be interested in.

    Someone finally DID build a strong a case for "Russian Ties" with Trump. However they're NOT to Putin. They're to the Russian/Jewish Mafia("Jewish" because the Israeli and Russian mafia are more or less the same organization). It started when Trump took obviously laundered money from the Colombo family for Trump Tower condos.

    This guy's perspective is interesting because he has a relevant political background as an advisor to the Paul campaign and is a conservative anti-Trumper.


  8. #9783
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    I've decided to wait and see how this all finally plays out in front of congress. All we have are tiny scraps and pieces that can be easily twisted, and endlessly speculated upon. It's all just pissing in the wind.

  9. #9784
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2016
    Location: Trollinus Maximus
    finally, a democrat I just might vote for.
    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...nt-run-1098629

  10. #9785
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Was Hawaii a state when she was born? Just asking questions.

  11. #9786
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    I somehow missed this tid-bit of crude, Trumpian fraud. He used his Oval Office Address to raise campaign money.

    Before and after the speech he emailed an appeal for donations to the "Official Secure The Border Fund", which the fine print explained would actually go to the "Trump Make America Great Again Committee", Donny Small Hand's election machine.

    Lawrence O'Donnell explains...





    And of course the first step in re-election is paying the army of 17 lawyers he just hired to keep him out of jail. I don't think that the $500,000. he asked for will pay them for long.
    Last edited by Nicker; 14th Jan 2019 at 09:17.

  12. #9787
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    The news stories that come out basically every day now are so surreal. Today's offerings--

    Trump Confronts the Prospect of a ‘Nonstop Political War’ for Survival
    So it has come to this: The president of the United States was asked over the weekend whether he is a Russian agent. And he refused to directly answer. The question, which came from a friendly interviewer, not one of the “fake media” journalists he disparages, was “the most insulting thing I’ve ever been asked,” he declared. But it is a question that has hung over his presidency now for two years. If the now 23-day government shutdown standoff between Mr. Trump and Congress has seemed ugly, it may eventually seem tame by comparison with what is to come. The border wall fight is just the preliminary skirmish in this new era of divided government. The real battle has yet to begin.

    With Democrats now in charge of the House, the special counsel believed to be wrapping up his investigation, news media outlets competing for scoops and the first articles of impeachment already filed, Mr. Trump faces the prospect of an all-out political war for survival that may make the still-unresolved partial government shutdown pale by comparison.

    The last few days have offered plenty of foreshadowing. The newly empowered Democrats summoned the president’s longtime personal lawyer to testify after he implicated Mr. Trump in an illegal scheme to arrange hush payments before the 2016 election for women who claimed to have had affairs with him. Legal papers disclosed that Mr. Trump’s onetime campaign chairman shared polling data with an associate tied by prosecutors to Russian intelligence. New reports over the weekend added to the sense of siege at the White House. The New York Times reported that after Mr. Trump fired the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, in 2017, the bureau opened an investigation into whether the president was working for the Russians. And The Washington Post reported that Mr. Trump has gone out of his way as president to hide the details of his discussions with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia even from members of his own administration.

    [...]
    “The reality,” said Andy Surabian, a Republican strategist and former special assistant to Mr. Trump, is “that the next two years are going to be nonstop political war.”

    Pentagon Officials Fear Bolton’s Actions Increase Risk of Clash With Iran
    Senior Pentagon officials are voicing deepening fears that President Trump’s hawkish national security adviser, John R. Bolton, could precipitate a conflict with Iran at a time when Mr. Trump is losing leverage in the Middle East by pulling out American troops. At Mr. Bolton’s direction, the National Security Council asked the Pentagon last year to provide the White House with military options to strike Iran, Defense Department and senior American officials said on Sunday. The request, which alarmed then-Defense Secretary Jim Mattis and other Pentagon officials, came after Iranian-backed militants fired three mortars or rockets into an empty lot on the grounds of the United States Embassy in Baghdad in September.

  13. #9788
    Quote Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
    finally, a democrat I just might vote for.
    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...nt-run-1098629
    Not going to happen. Tulsi has made two unforgivable mistakes for the DNC. The first is that she's made active efforts to subvert the war agenda including flying to Syria to document how the US was covertly pushing for "regime change" there. The second is that she's pro-Palestinian. In the current climate for both the DNC and RNC anything other than slavish worship of Israel is heresy that needs to be purged.


    It's interesting seeing all these "diverse" candidates signing up. I predict what's going to happen is that they're all going to start attacking each other's PC credentials and attempt to "out-diverse" each other. You can already see some of this because the standard "phobic" talking points are starting to be employed to attack Tulsi along with the accusations that she's secretly working for Putin.

    I've decided to wait and see how this all finally plays out in front of congress. All we have are tiny scraps and pieces that can be easily twisted, and endlessly speculated upon. It's all just pissing in the wind.
    Some of the things in that link are NOT speculation. It's not really in dispute that Trump took money from Russia-connected jewish mafia families here in NYC.

  14. #9789
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicker View Post

    And of course the first step in re-election is paying the army of 17 lawyers he just hired to keep him out of jail. I don't think that the $500,000. he asked for will pay them for long.
    A small correction, 17 additional lawyers to the ones he already had. And it looks like they're still hiring to bring the total up to "40ish". Apparently, they are going full out to defend executive privilege: https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile...gators-at-bay/

  15. #9790
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    So Trump is using tax money to protect himself from the citizens he is victimising and using tax money to solicit campaign contributions from his marks... er... his supporters.

    One comment on that article said that because those lawyers are on the public purse, they are not bound by client privilege, like a private lawyer. Sounds like they could be called to testify. Any legal opinions on that here?
    Last edited by Nicker; 14th Jan 2019 at 17:27.

  16. #9791
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    More like their client is the state not the individual. So if it turns out the individual becomes a threat to the state, there's a conflict of interest and the individual should get independent counsel because the lawyer not only can but will have a duty defend the state's interest by turning on the individual. This happens a lot, e.g., when a lawyer is for a company and not an executive.

    As for the scope of client privilege, I don't remember the specifics of that when we're talking about client agents (like employees). It might be privilege within the scope of their duties? But one thing is clear, there's no privilege if it involves lawyer participation an on-going crime like obstructing justice.

  17. #9792
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Thanks, dema.

    So if Trump is his usual loose lipped, arrogant self with what he probably presumes is HIS legal team, this may be public money well spent. Tell us all about how those dastardly Dems hurt you, Donny.

  18. #9793
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    Not going to happen. Tulsi has made two unforgivable mistakes for the DNC. The first is that she's made active efforts to subvert the war agenda including flying to Syria to document how the US was covertly pushing for "regime change" there. The second is that she's pro-Palestinian. In the current climate for both the DNC and RNC anything other than slavish worship of Israel is heresy that needs to be purged.
    Covert? How is openly stating you want regime change and working for it by supporting the side against Assad Bashar in any way covert? It is a bit naive to be pro Palestinian as it shows a swallowing of one propaganda over the other. What would be less so would be to be for a two state solution. I mean, Palestinians vote for war in their elections and lob missiles and cry foul because Israel is better at war when they retaliate. Meanwhile Israel is taking over more land. Those are the facts. Draw a damn line neither side likes and then no damn missiles. More missiles and Israel is ALLOWED to take more land. How's that? Being pro either side is somewhat stupid. Being for the destruction of Israel absolutely stupid.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    It's interesting seeing all these "diverse" candidates signing up. I predict what's going to happen is that they're all going to start attacking each other's PC credentials and attempt to "out-diverse" each other. You can already see some of this because the standard "phobic" talking points are starting to be employed to attack Tulsi along with the accusations that she's secretly working for Putin.
    Surely nobody who voted for Trump could accuse her of working for Putin with a straight face? My problem with her is that she seems quite a bit thin on detail in anything she supports. Sure, she is pretty but what is she going to do? Pole dance her way to solid policy? Pretty means jack when running a country. I guess it could sway a shallow Trump voter and get a few votes but most Dems want substance. Warren explains in detail everything she supports. She goes a bit overboard on every underdog issue but I don't mind. She stands up to the assholes. I haven't seen Tulsi stand up to anyone yet.

  19. #9794
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Landahn
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...=.4ad26969c15d

    "It's all American stuff."
    Pizza.

  20. #9795
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    well to be fair, hamburgers are hardly american either

  21. #9796
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Landahn
    Obviously it very much depends on where 'beef patty on bread' ends and 'hamburger' begins, but I would argue that yes, they are.

    https://toriavey.com/history-kitchen...of-hamburgers/

  22. #9797
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    Tulsi Gabbard is going absolutely nowhere in the Democratic party. She has a history of socially conservative views, including opposition to abortion rights and gay marriage, and despite a turn-around, a lot of Democrats don't trust her on social issues. She also has strong views on Islam and will be painted as an Islamophobe and a hawk. Not to mention Steve Bannon is a fan, she gets a lot of praise from conservative media, and she is not sufficiently anti-Trump.

    I think the Democratic party is still controlled by the New Democrats and their financial backers, who will want to get behind one of their own like Beto O'Rourke. They would probably be happy with Joe Biden as well, but I think he lacks the grass roots support. Kamala Harris has a fair shot. I think she'll do well in the large group debates, and the early California primary may give her an advantage, but I don't know what prosecutorial decisions are lurking in her record as AG that will be used against her.

    I don't think Warren has much of a chance. I watched the debates in her two Senate races. She has good answers, but lacks stage presence. She has the same weakness that Al Gore had: she comes across as a policy wonk and not a leader of the country. If the Democratic party uses a series of large group debates to winnow the field, as the Republicans did in 2016, I think she will end up falling into the background. She will also be fighting against the perception that a Massachusetts liberal can't win a nationwide general election. It's just as well, because she is an intelligent policy maker and she can do more good by staying in the Senate long term.

    Now that the 2016 Bernie Sanders campaign has been tarred with the sexism brush, he's toast. I think the Democratic party string pullers were eager to get him out of the way as early as possible this time, to avoid a repeat of 2016. He is still, by far, the Democratic candidate who is most independent from the party machine, and therefore the biggest threat. It is interesting and sad to see the mainsteam left media turn on him. The media was surprisingly neutral in the 2016 primary campaigns, which helped insurgent candidates in both parties. This time, I expect more favoritism towards the preferred candidates.

    There's a bunch of people who are announced or likely to run with no chance: Delaney, Booker, Castro, Yang, Gillibrand. One person who is on the fence but might have a big impact on the race is Bloomberg. Given the depth of his pockets, you can assume that if he gets in, he'll be in it for the long haul. And he'll suck support from the other centrists.

  23. #9798
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Lord Dampnut seems to strive to cross every single item off Putin's wish list:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/u...ent-trump.html

    There are few things that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia desires more than the weakening of NATO, the military alliance among the United States, Europe and Canada that has deterred Soviet and Russian aggression for 70 years.

    Last year, President Trump suggested a move tantamount to destroying NATO: the withdrawal of the United States.

    Senior administration officials told The New York Times that several times over the course of 2018, Mr. Trump privately said he wanted to withdraw from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Current and former officials who support the alliance said they feared Mr. Trump could return to his threat as allied military spending continued to lag behind the goals the president had set.

    In the days around a tumultuous NATO summit meeting last summer, they said, Mr. Trump told his top national security officials that he did not see the point of the military alliance, which he presented as a drain on the United States.

    At the time, Mr. Trump’s national security team, including Jim Mattis, then the defense secretary, and John R. Bolton, the national security adviser, scrambled to keep American strategy on track without mention of a withdrawal that would drastically reduce Washington’s influence in Europe and could embolden Russia for decades.

    Now, the president’s repeatedly stated desire to withdraw from NATO is raising new worries among national security officials amid growing concern about Mr. Trump’s efforts to keep his meetings with Mr. Putin secret from even his own aides, and an F.B.I. investigation into the administration’s Russia ties.

  24. #9799
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    If you go back and read some of the exchanges, you can even hear this tone in Trump's & Putin's statements -- where Trump nomianlly sounds "hard line" or Putin sounds "alarmed" or "disappointed" but not really -- it sounds like they have an understanding that the US has to take some anti-Russia actions to keep up appearances (like inevitable sanctions) because the US is giving more than Russia is losing.

  25. #9800
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    The sanctions have been forced by Congress. Lord Dampnut has been fighting tooth and nail against the sanctions, delaying them and arguing against them. Even now, apropos of nothing, they seek to lift sanctions on one particular oligarch's businesses and the Senate had to step in, with 11 Republicans breaking ranks: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapo...ions-breather/

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