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View Poll Results: How long will Trump be President?

Voters
135. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1 Term (4 Years)

    26 19.26%
  • 2 Terms (8 Years)

    43 31.85%
  • 1st Term Impeachment/Assassination

    49 36.30%
  • 2nd Term Impeachment/Assassination

    4 2.96%
  • I don't know what's going on!

    13 9.63%

Thread: ✮✮✮ !Trump Dump! ✮✮✮

  1. #11276
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Apparently in Ukraine they're calling their president Monica Zelensky.

  2. #11277
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    "I did not have transactional relations with that man, Mr. Zelensky."

  3. #11278
    SShock2.com
    Member

    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: The land of ever sideways rain
    :drumroll:

  4. #11279
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Fox spins out:


  5. #11280
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: cesspool
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ine-meeting-un

    Good piece.

    If the whole matter is not a total disregard to other party and attempt to get personal gain mixing up personal affairs and foreign policy of the state, I don't know what is. I'm not sure if the matter worth an impeachment but his ethics is impressive, or rather absence of it.

  6. #11281
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2001
    Location: OldDark Detox Clinic
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicker View Post
    Fox spins out:

    First time I've seen this guy. I need a shower now.

  7. #11282
    Link:

    https://www.congress.gov/treaty-docu.../document-text

    This is a treaty that was signed between Ukraine and the USA which plainly states that Ukraine will assist in any investigation that may lead to criminal activity

  8. #11283
    In the real world, anyone in the private sector would be prosecuted for what Biden did with his son. It is called the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. There is absolutely no way I could agree to even pay for a trip or anything with the director of a foreign company we deal with even as a courtesy. It is presumed to be a bribe.

    The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA) is a United States law passed in 1977 that prohibits US firms and individuals from paying bribes to foreign officials in furtherance of a business deal. The FCPA places no minimum amount for a punishment of a bribery payment.

    In 2010, the SEC’s Enforcement Division created a specialized unit to further enhance its enforcement of the FCPA, which prohibits companies issuing stock in the US from bribing foreign officials for government contracts and other business.

    If I got a family member a job with a country or company that I was doing business with, I would AUTOMATICALLY be prosecuted by the SEC. So why is Joe Biden above the law?

    The mere fact that the Democrats are yelling impeachment over this issue confirms that the entire Russian nonsense failed. This is by no means an impeachable offense. In fact, anyone else in the private sector would be in prison for what Joe Biden & his family did. Hillary met with donors from Ukraine to buy influence. She denied ever meeting them but her emails showed she did. They were both deeply involved in Ukraine.

    The natural response is being played out now. The State Department is stepping up its investigation of Hillary’s emails concerning the ties to Ukraine. If the Democrats want to play with fire, Trump has a book of matched that could bring down the entire barn.

  9. #11284
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    I think this article covers it pretty well... Hunter Biden’s Perfectly Legal, Socially Acceptable Corruption

    Quote Originally Posted by The Atlantic
    Donald Trump committed an impeachable offense, but prominent Americans also shouldn’t be leveraging their names for payoffs from shady clients abroad.

    How did this get to be standard practice?

    The whistle-blower scandal that has prompted the fourth presidential impeachment process in American history has put a spectacle from earlier this decade back on display: the jaw-smacking feast of scavengers who circled around Ukraine as Viktor Yanukovych, a Moscow-linked kleptocrat, was driven from power. Ukraine’s crisis was the latest to energize a club whose culture has come to be treated as normal—a culture in which top-tier lawyers, former U.S. public officials, and policy experts (and their progeny) cash in by trading on their connections and their access to insider policy information—usually by providing services to kleptocrats like Yanukovych. The renewed focus on Ukraine raises jangling questions: How did dealing in influence to burnish the fortunes of repugnant world leaders for large payoffs become a business model? How could America’s leading lights convince themselves—and us—that this is acceptable?

    Voicing this question now invites an immediate objection: “false equivalence.” Let’s dispense with it. What Donald Trump has done—in this case, according to the summary of a single phone call, lean on a foreign president to launch two spurious investigations in order to hurt political rivals, offering the services of the U.S. Department of Justice for the purpose—is shockingly corrupt, a danger to American democracy, and worthy of impeachment.

    But the egregiousness of these acts must not blind us to the culture of influence-peddling that surrounds and enables them. That culture is fundamental to the cynical state we are in, and it needs examining. All too often, the scandal isn’t that the conduct in question is forbidden by federal law, but rather, how much scandalous conduct is perfectly legal—and broadly accepted.

    Let’s start with Hunter Biden. In April 2014, he became a director of Burisma, the largest natural-gas producer in Ukraine. He had no prior experience in the gas industry, nor with Ukrainian regulatory affairs, his ostensible purview at Burisma. He did have one priceless qualification: his unique position as the son of the vice president of the United States, newborn Ukraine’s most crucial ally. Weeks before Biden came on, Ukraine’s government had collapsed amid a popular revolution, giving its gas a newly strategic importance as an alternative to Russia’s, housed in a potentially democratic country. Hunter’s father was comfortably into his second term as vice president—and was a prospective future president himself.

    There was already a template, in those days, for how insiders in a gas-rich kleptocracy could exploit such a crisis using Western “advisers” to facilitate and legitimize their plunder—and how those Westerners could profit handsomely from it. A dozen-plus years earlier, amid the collapse of the U.S.S.R. of which Ukraine was a part, a clutch of oligarchs rifled the crown jewels of a vast nation. We know some of their names, in some cases because of the work of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s office: Oleg Deripaska, Viktor Vekselberg, Dmitry Rybolovlev, Leonard Blavatnik. That heist also was assisted by U.S. consultants, many of whom had posts at Harvard and at least one of whom was a protégé of future Treasury Secretary Larry Summers.

    Burisma’s story is of that stripe. The company had been founded by Mykola Zlochevsky, who, as Yanukovych’s minister of ecology and natural resources, had overseen Ukraine’s fossil-fuel deposits. When Hunter Biden joined Burisma’s board, $23 million of Zlochevsky’s riches were being frozen by the British government in a corruption probe. Zlochevsky fled Ukraine. The younger Biden enlisted his law firm, Boies Schiller Flexner, to provide what The New Yorker describes as “advice on how to improve the company’s corporate governance.” Eventually, the asset freeze on Zlochevsky was lifted. Deripaska defeated U.S. sanctions with similar help from other high-profile Americans.

    Recently, Hunter Biden told The New Yorker that “the decisions that I made were the right decisions for my family and for me” and suggested Trump was merely using him as the “tip of the spear” to undermine Joe Biden politically. There are no indications that Hunter’s activities swayed any decision his father made as vice president. Joe Biden did pressure Ukraine’s fledgling post-Yanukovych president to remove a public prosecutor—as part of concerted U.S. policy. So did every other Western government and dozens of Ukrainian and international pro-democracy activists. The problem was not that the prosecutor was too aggressive with corrupt businessman-politicians like Hunter Biden’s boss; it was that he was too lenient.

    And Hunter Biden was hardly the only prominent American who did well for himself during Ukraine’s transition. Another Burisma director was Cofer Black, George W. Bush’s CIA counterterrorism chief. The Republican operative and future Trump campaign chair Paul Manafort worked for Yanukovych. So did Obama White House Counsel Gregory Craig. The millions he was grossing were paid by an oligarch allied with Yanukovich and routed to Craig’s firm, Skadden Arps, through a confusing series of offshore accounts. At the time, Craig was a director of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. I was just joining that organization, as the first senior fellow working on international corruption. (His work for Yanukovych was not widely advertised.)

    Craig was prosecuted on the narrow count of lying to federal investigators. He was acquitted. To see the grin on his face that day, it was as though he had been absolved not just of criminal misconduct but also of moral wrongdoing.

    When prominent Americans leverage their global reputations for financial gain, they attract almost no attention today. How many of us who consider ourselves well versed in U.S. politics and international relations know that alongside her consulting firm, former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright started an emerging-markets hedge fund, run by her son-in-law? In 2011, Albright Capital took a voting stake in APR Energy, specializing in pop-up electricity plants for developing countries. APR promotes itself to the mining industry in Africa, where resource extraction enriches a handful of kleptocratic elites and leaves locals mired in pollution and conflict. Some of APR’s business comes via the U.S. Agency for International Development, which works closely with the State Department once led by Albright.

    Scratch into the bios of many former U.S. officials who were in charge of foreign or security policy in administrations of either party, and you will find “consulting” firms and hedge-fund gigs monetizing their names and connections.

    Some of these gigs require more ethical compromises than others. When allegations of ethical lapses or wrongdoing surface against people on one side of the aisle, they can always claim that someone on the other side has done far worse. But taken together, all of these examples have contributed to a toxic norm. Joe Biden is the man who, as a senator, walked out of a dinner with Afghan President Hamid Karzai. Biden was one of the most vocal champions of anticorruption efforts in the Obama administration. So when this same Biden takes his son with him to China aboard Air Force Two, and within days Hunter joins the board of an investment advisory firm with stakes in China, it does not matter what father and son discussed. Joe Biden has enabled this brand of practice, made it bipartisan orthodoxy. And the ethical standard in these cases—people’s basic understanding of right and wrong—becomes whatever federal law allows. Which is a lot.

    Who among us has not admired or supported people who have engaged in or provided cover for this kind of corruption? How did we convince ourselves it was not corruption? Impeachment alone will not end our national calamity. If we want to help our country heal, we must start holding ourselves, our friends, and our allies—and not just our enemies—to its highest standards.

  10. #11285
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    In the real world, anyone in the private sector would be prosecuted for what Biden did with his son. It is called the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. There is absolutely no way I could agree to even pay for a trip or anything with the director of a foreign company we deal with even as a courtesy. It is presumed to be a bribe.

    The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA) is a United States law passed in 1977 that prohibits US firms and individuals from paying bribes to foreign officials in furtherance of a business deal. The FCPA places no minimum amount for a punishment of a bribery payment.

    In 2010, the SEC’s Enforcement Division created a specialized unit to further enhance its enforcement of the FCPA, which prohibits companies issuing stock in the US from bribing foreign officials for government contracts and other business.

    If I got a family member a job with a country or company that I was doing business with, I would AUTOMATICALLY be prosecuted by the SEC. So why is Joe Biden above the law?

    The mere fact that the Democrats are yelling impeachment over this issue confirms that the entire Russian nonsense failed. This is by no means an impeachable offense. In fact, anyone else in the private sector would be in prison for what Joe Biden & his family did. Hillary met with donors from Ukraine to buy influence. She denied ever meeting them but her emails showed she did. They were both deeply involved in Ukraine.

    The natural response is being played out now. The State Department is stepping up its investigation of Hillary’s emails concerning the ties to Ukraine. If the Democrats want to play with fire, Trump has a book of matched that could bring down the entire barn.
    Hey man, you agree with "Trump is a manchild" or not?
    Because, really, it's as simple as this.

  11. #11286
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    In the real world...
    The whaddaboutism is strong in this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    If I got a family member a job with a country or company that I was doing business with, I would AUTOMATICALLY be prosecuted by the SEC. So why is Joe Biden above the law?
    Perhaps this is the question you meant to ask...

    If I got my daughter a shitload of trademarks in China while I was engaged in a trade war with them as the President Of The United States, I should AUTOMATICALLY be prosecuted by the SEC. So why is Donald Trump above the law?
    Last edited by Nicker; 1st Oct 2019 at 10:02.

  12. #11287
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    So, Lord Dampnut leverages hundreds of millions of US military aid to pressure a foreign government to try to dig up dirt on his political rivals, but what about Hillary's emails?

  13. #11288
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    @ dema - thanks for that article. It kind of explains a question that is persistently on my mind. Why are people furtling around in odd countries doing odd things which appear to be immoral at the very least.

    Who among us has not admired or supported people who have engaged in or provided cover for this kind of corruption?
    Who among us actually admires people like that (maybe Boris). I wouldn't know any of them.

  14. #11289
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by nickie View Post
    Who among us actually admires people like that (maybe Boris). I wouldn't know any of them.
    No one admires their favorite politician for engaging in self-serving bullshit, even if they otherwise like them. After all, a lot of people liked Hillary Clinton, despite the fact that she and Bill are practically the poster children of this petty, backscratching kind of corruption. The same applies to Biden and his son, who obviously, happily engaged in this type of behavior. It's also true of Trump, who uses his powers and position as POTUS to enrich himself and his kids on a daily basis. You could probably say the same of just about every elected official in Washington DC.

    Every politician currently active in DC has at least dabbled in the legally dark grey waters of ethical violations and petty corruption, and 95% of the time, we all look the other way, only holding those we don't like accountable for their actions.

  15. #11290
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    The scale and brazenness of Trump's corruption makes it very different from "normal" political graft. The Clintons take more than their share from the tree. Trump torches the orchard so he can have a couple of baked apples. The Clintons are circumspect parasites. Trump is a reckless plague.

  16. #11291
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    The Clintons are circumspect parasites. Trump is a reckless plague.
    I'd say that sums things up quite nicely. Yeah, Hillary did this, Bill did that, and they probably do deserve to spend at a couple years in a Club Fed facility. The only reason they haven't yet is because they're lawyers, and they know how to cover their asses. What they did doesn't change the fact that Trump is objectively 10 times worse, nor excuse what he's doing now.

  17. #11292
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicker View Post
    The scale and brazenness of Trump's corruption makes it very different from "normal" political graft. The Clintons take more than their share from the tree. Trump torches the orchard so he can have a couple of baked apples. The Clintons are circumspect parasites. Trump is a reckless plague.
    +1

  18. #11293
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    If anyone actually wants to understand the Biden thing then this is it- https://www.npr.org/2019/09/27/76518...ith-the-bidens

    It tells the whole unvarnished thing without the republican slant or even a liberal one. You will come to understand what happened when and why.

  19. #11294
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    The whistleblower complaint that might expose Lord Dampnut's financial dealings:
    (posting the full text since it's not available in Europe otherwise)

    https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/comme...ampell-theres/

    Hey, have you heard about this whistleblower complaint?

    An unnamed civil servant is alleging serious interference in government business. If the allegations are true, they could be a game-changer. They might set in motion the release of lots of other secret documents showing that President Trump has abused his authority for his personal benefit.

    Wait, you thought I meant the whistleblower from the intelligence community?

    Nope. I'm talking about a completely different whistleblower, whose claims have gotten significantly less attention but could prove no less consequential. This whistleblower alleges a whole different category of impropriety: that someone has been secretly meddling with the Internal Revenue Service's audit of the president.

    In defiance of a half-century norm, Trump has kept his tax returns secret.

    We don't know exactly what he might be hiding. His bizarre behavior, though, suggests it's really bad.

    Maybe these documents would reveal something embarrassing but not criminal (e.g., the relatively puny size of his fortune). Maybe they'd reveal that some of his financial dealings are legally dubious or even fraudulent, which would be consistent with past Trump-family tax behavior.

    Most significantly, they might reveal that Trump has been profiting off the presidency. Among the relevant conflict-of-interest questions that Trump's taxes could answer: whom he gets money from, whom he owes money to (and on what terms) or how his 2017 tax overhaul enriched him personally.

    Not that you’d know it from the administration’s stonewalling, but Congress actually has unambiguous authority to get Trump’s returns. In fact, it has had the authority to get any federal tax return, no questions asked, for nearly a century. Under a 1924 law, Treasury “shall furnish” any tax document requested by the House Ways and Means or Senate Finance Committee chairs.

    That's exactly what the House Ways and Means chairman, Richard E. Neal, D-Mass., did in the spring. The statute doesn't require him to state any legislative purpose for his request, but he provided one anyway: He said that committee needed to make sure the IRS, which it oversees, is properly conducting its annual audit of the president and vice president, as the IRS manual has required post-Watergate.

    There is historical precedent for worrying about how rigorously the IRS might be auditing its own boss. In the early 1970s, the agency commended then-President Richard M. Nixon on his supposedly pristine tax filings, even though he owed about a half-million dollars in unpaid taxes and interest.

    Since then, presidents have voluntarily released their tax returns. So Congress didn't really need to worry much about whether the IRS was going easy on the president.

    "The concern about the IRS' audit is almost minimal or nonexistent if tax returns are public, because there are effectively a million auditors," says George K. Yin, University of Virginia School of Law professor emeritus and former chief of staff of Congress' Joint Committee on Taxation. "The public can see if there's any funny business going on."

    Current circumstances are different, of course.

    Still, from an optics standpoint, this IRS-audit-oversight rationale seemed a strange one for Neal to cite. Especially because it was the primary rationale offered, and there was no reason at the time to believe the IRS was actually being bullied. So, for the first time in history, the administration refused a Ways and Means tax request, on the grounds that Neal’s stated legislative purpose was “pretextual.”

    But now, in retrospect, Neal’s stated purpose looks either extremely ingenious — or extremely lucky.

    That's because this summer an anonymous whistleblower approached the House committee to say its concerns had been justified. The whistleblower offered credible allegations of "evidence of possible misconduct," specifically "inappropriate efforts to influence" the audit of the president, according to a letter Neal sent to the treasury secretary.

    We don't know the complaint details, including who allegedly meddled with the audit or how, and whether the IRS complied. The complaint hasn't been released, and Neal said last week that he's still consulting with congressional lawyers about whether to make it public.

    But the exact details of the allegations matter less than the fact that they corroborate Democratic lawmakers' argument that oversight of the IRS' annual presidential audit is indeed a legitimate reason they — and hopefully, eventually, the public — should see Trump's taxes. It's hard to imagine how the federal judge in this case could now rule against the committee.

    As is so often true with allegations of Trumpian wrongdoing, we’ve learned once again that there’s a there there — and there, and there, and all sorts of other places you mightn’t have thought to look.
    Last edited by Starker; 2nd Oct 2019 at 02:26.

  20. #11295
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    "A fine-tuned machine."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/01/u...rder-wars.html

    WASHINGTON — The Oval Office meeting this past March began, as so many had, with President Trump fuming about migrants. But this time he had a solution. As White House advisers listened astonished, he ordered them to shut down the entire 2,000-mile border with Mexico — by noon the next day.

    The advisers feared the president’s edict would trap American tourists in Mexico, strand children at schools on both sides of the border and create an economic meltdown in two countries. Yet they also knew how much the president’s zeal to stop immigration had sent him lurching for solutions, one more extreme than the next.

    Privately, the president had often talked about fortifying a border wall with a water-filled trench, stocked with snakes or alligators, prompting aides to seek a cost estimate. He wanted the wall electrified, with spikes on top that could pierce human flesh. After publicly suggesting that soldiers shoot migrants if they threw rocks, the president backed off when his staff told him that was illegal. But later in a meeting, aides recalled, he suggested that they shoot migrants in the legs to slow them down. That’s not allowed either, they told him.

    [...]

    Mr. Trump’s order to close the border was a decision point that touched off a frenzied week of presidential rages, round-the-clock staff panic and far more White House turmoil than was known at the time. By the end of the week, the seat-of-the-pants president had backed off his threat but had retaliated with the beginning of a purge of the aides who had tried to contain him.

    [...]

    In the Oval Office that March afternoon, a 30-minute meeting extended to more than two hours as Mr. Trump’s team tried desperately to placate him.

    “You are making me look like an idiot!” Mr. Trump shouted, adding in a profanity, as multiple officials in the room described it. “I ran on this. It’s my issue.”

  21. #11296
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Location, Location
    Quote Originally Posted by NYTimes
    Privately, the president had often talked about fortifying a border wall with a water-filled trench, stocked with snakes or alligators, prompting aides to seek a cost estimate.
    "Often". Wow. I'm curious now what the threshold is for ideas that Trump considers too stupid or crazy to bring up to his subordinates.

  22. #11297
    Sharks with freaking laser beams

    Unfortunately the aides could only provide sea bass. But they were assured these were as ill-tempered as their master.

  23. #11298
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Why stupid laserzzzzz when He can have.....Karras Combat Bots, patrolling the border! (we are still on TTLG, right?)



    Maybe with His face......

  24. #11299
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Old but gold


  25. #11300
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Wow and this is just the beginning.

    There's a thing called narcissistic collapse where the person with NPD completely dissociates and withdraws from reality. I think it's actually in the cards here. But it might depend on how loyal his army of flying monkeys is. That's why the civil war narrative is so important I think, incidentally; he needs them to keep his validation supply running. If he's impeached, he needs them to dismantle the whole system working against him, it simply must be a conspiracy, or it's going to be like rubbing his nose directly in "you had less people attend your inauguration than Obama" and he can't escape it, and that's when you'll get the really batshit psychic collapse happening. Unfortunate that all of these articles are still assuming what's happening is neurotypical.

    Edit: I should correct that. The articles have long realized something is off with him, but they still approach him using neurotypical logic, either not understanding what's happening or trying to understand it through the wrong concepts. There's still method to his madness ... validation, supply, too much glucocorticoids and too little serotonin, the utter void in his capacity for empathy, object constancy issues, etc. E.g. I've seen people talking about it like he's afraid of prosecution and might want to make a deal, accept resignation and avoid or lessen the prosecution. But I think he's much more afraid of his presidency / fortune being delegitimized, and the risk of prison doesn't even exist compared to having to face up to that. I'm pretty sure he'd do anything to cling to his title and plead to his flying monkey army to take up arms and storm the courthouse than admit anything that might suggest he hasn't been the greatest president in US history.
    Last edited by demagogue; 2nd Oct 2019 at 12:57.

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