TTLG|Thief|Bioshock|System Shock|Deus Ex|Mobile

View Poll Results: How long will Trump be President?

Voters
121. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1 Term (4 Years)

    25 20.66%
  • 2 Terms (8 Years)

    35 28.93%
  • 1st Term Impeachment/Assassination

    47 38.84%
  • 2nd Term Impeachment/Assassination

    2 1.65%
  • I don't know what's going on!

    12 9.92%
Page 52 of 428 FirstFirst ... 271217222732374247484950515253545556576267727782879297102152302 ... LastLast
Results 1,276 to 1,300 of 10697

Thread: ✮✮✮ !Trump Dump! ✮✮✮

  1. #1276
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2000
    Location: Portreath Cornwall UK
    Considering all of the above...... Whoever wins, could either of them make the full term before impeachment? I think not and I'm reckoning on a max of one thousand days. Bragging rights for closest to the day? I'll go with 666
    Last edited by Medlar; 1st Nov 2016 at 12:39.

  2. #1277
    Member
    Registered: Jun 1999
    Location: Procrastination, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    I think Clinton scandal denial is the Democrat equivalent of climate change denial.

    In my opinion, Hillary and her staff are guilty of not following her own department's email policy, mishandling classified information, demonstrating disregard for national security, breaking the Federal Records Act, breaking the Freedom of Information Act, obstructing justice by deleting evidence under subpoena, and lying to us about it at every opportunity.

    ...

    Of course, most Democrats prefer to cover their ears and sing "la, la, la" and pretend there's nothing to see here. It's just a vast right-wing conspiracy, right?

    I appreciate this, even though I've heard it before in one for or another (maybe even in this thread, by you. I'm not sure). But the thing is I don't care all that much about this. And I've heard it, as I said, a few times. It's a comprehensive, somewhat informed sort of not caring. But while my view on this is remote and not mattering in the least I think that's actually similar to other people around that I've encountered.
    I've no doubt there is blinkers and apologism and 'team spirit' overriding reason around. Quite a bit possibly. But I feel confident that really, the email thing in particular doesn't bother people on any moral level, as it doesn't bother me.
    It seems like the usual sort of shenanigans you only hear about when some sacrificial public servant takes all the blame and steps down and we all say to ourselves the minster probably did it, but whatever. It's just that in this case it was harder to duck. Since nothing terrible happened it's an administrative thing. The opposition will try to make political capital. But that's what they do.
    The various machinations do seem to tell you a thing or two about Hillary herself. I think she just doesn't trust people. Especially not the wider government apparatus. That is an interesting thing for a would be president, for sure. Worth thinking about. Damnable in this instance? Can't do it. Or even get close really. And I think there's probably many other more cognisant folks who feel the same. It just doesn't trip any major moral worries for them. Maybe people could argue that belies some serious character and judgement flaw on their/my part. But the sense I get is it's not always denial or 'well Trump is worse' evasion or anything like that, as impossible as that might seem to some people.


    (anyway, when she gets elected she going to want to trust her security advisors and stick to their protocols. The rhetoric around her is hysterical and terrifying and there's really no way I can think of that people aren't going to be taking shots at her, probably monthly)

  3. #1278
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Briareos H View Post
    Declaring she wants a no-fly zone over Syria, therefore reinstating a cold-war framework with Russia (as I doubt she would actually go to war with them)
    She did, yeah. Hillary does have some undeniably heavy warhawk tendencies. I mean hell, the only reason Obama decided to intervene in Syria in the first place was at her insistence.

    Stealing Bernie Sanders' place through media manipulation and maybe(?) rigging the Democratic National Committe.
    No, she didn't. The DNC didn't appreciate Sanders suddenly dark horsing his way across their carefully laid plans, and tossed some ideas around on how best to stall his campaign, but never acted upon any of them. They certainly didn't go out of their way to help him any, but didn't do anything to hinder him, either.

    ...so, half and half.

  4. #1279
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by catbarf View Post
    I find it really disappointing that no matter what evidence is presented against Clinton, the response is 'still better than Trump'. I don't mean to pick on you specifically faetal since I hear it from a lot of people, it's just extremely frustrating to me to engage with Democrats who seamlessly transition from 'Hillary did nothing wrong' to 'Well, she's still better than Trump' to excuse any legitimate faults. Based on current predictions, unless something huge happens this is the person we're going to be stuck with as president for the next four years, and the character behind these scandals will remain long after the threat of a Trump presidency stops being a way to excuse her flaws.
    Like SD said, when you're faced with two bad choices, what other options do you have? We have reduced to choosing between a sleazy opportunist who will do everything in her power to get her way, and a petulant manchild demagogue who regularly throws temper tantrums the moment something doesn't go his way, and has no idea what he's doing.

    Guess I'll go with the sleaze.

  5. #1280
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    It's not like the other choices are any better either. Besides Including that hippy lady and the tongue-waggler, you've basically got a bunch of loons:


  6. #1281
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    The greatest thing about our country is that anyone can run for president, and win.

    The worst thing about our country is that anyone can run for president, and win.

  7. #1282
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Quote Originally Posted by catbarf View Post
    I find it really disappointing that no matter what evidence is presented against Clinton, the response is 'still better than Trump'. I don't mean to pick on you specifically faetal since I hear it from a lot of people, it's just extremely frustrating to me to engage with Democrats who seamlessly transition from 'Hillary did nothing wrong' to 'Well, she's still better than Trump' to excuse any legitimate faults.
    This is quite funny, because that's exactly the point I was making. Notice I said earlier in the thread that it seems Republican voters are focusing so heavily on Clinton, because the alternative is trying to find some redeeming feature of Trump. All I am hearing is "not Hilary because..." because when it comes to Trump, there really is just no way to make him seem even remotely like a candidate for President of anything larger than a doll house.

    My tongue in cheek comment about Trump's rape charges was to show how utterly ridiculous it is to focus on the opponent and what makes them a worse choice if your choice has fuck all going for them. Personally, I find Clinton objectionable and am REALLY glad I am not having to vote in this car crash of an election. All I know is that if Clinton wins, the rest of the world will heave a collective sigh of relief. We'll know that the US is keeping its holding pattern of warmongering, neo-lib venal government and generally being the shitty bully that everyone wishes would just build a dome over itself, but that just mildly scrapes in as a preferable option to all of the above plus Trump being in a position of actual power. He's like a comedy dictator who hates people and wants the presidency for his trophy cabinet.

    Given how he's used his wealth and power thus far, I can't imagine how awful it could be with giving him more. My personal hope is that Clinton wins and that all of the heat she has taken over the email scandal forces her to tread a little more lightly. Then, in 4 years, another election with a less awful choice (seems like that's a strong possibility given how awful the current choice seems).

    I don't consider myself to be "left wing" and in fact I dislike the tendency for people to boil political discourse down to a binary topic, but given the choice between right wing psycho and egregious right wing psycho, I'll take the former and have a stiff drink and a cry.

  8. #1283
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    Seems that the BBC web site has been reading this thread and produced an article for me entitled, 'The most simple explanation of Hillary’s email problem you'll find, we promise, a.k.a. 'What's the big deal about her emails?' Obviously they're a bit late and you lot have already explained it to me in simple language!

    Regrettably, the BBC has also decided to 'go live' with the election so I'm extraordinarily lucky in being able to read what's going on at any given moment. I'm going to exercise restraint and not post the latest Trump scandal. This has to be the most undignified spectacle I've ever witnessed. How many more days is this going on for?

    I rather agree with faetal except it no longer feels like a joke - more of a nightmare that I'm afraid I'm not going to wake up from. And I'm just a periphery. Yes I agree that this election has nothing to do with me except insofar as everything the US does impacts on other nations and I've already made horrendous choices in my life prompted by US actions and I really don't want to make any more.

    I would join you, faetal, in that stiff drink but someone's already drunk it so I'll stick to the wine.

    In the meantime, sending moral support to those in need - like Renz!

  9. #1284
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by nickie View Post
    How many more days is this going on for?
    One more week. Just one more. I...I think I can make it.

    In the meantime, sending moral support to those in need - like Renz!
    Th-th-thank you.

  10. #1285
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by nickie View Post
    How many more days is this going on for?
    This particular dumpster fire will reach its height on the 8th, though you can bet that it will smolder for quite a while.

  11. #1286
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    You want to know what's really scary? This all isn't going away on the 8th. That's just when we switch from the pregame warm up to the actual soiree.

    God help us all.

  12. #1287
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    This all isn't going away on the 8th. That's just when we switch from the pregame warm up to the actual soiree.
    That is correct...and it will be sight to behold!
    Last edited by Vae; 1st Nov 2016 at 21:53.

  13. #1288
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    I'm glad that I don't have a front row seat.

  14. #1289
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae
    That is correct...and it will be sight to behold!
    You know, most people look at Trump as a kind of sad alternative, some going so far as to think he may end up making a decent president, maybe in spite of all his obvious flaws. They're tired of the status quo, and think the country needs a good shake-up to get back on its feet. I can't say I entirely disagree with them, at least not the sentiment, though I believe if we're going to go that route, we should wait for something truly better to come along, rather than grab for the first alternative that happens our way.

    But there are some people who speak of the man in almost reverential tones. Saying he's the perfect person for a tough job, that he'll go through a singlehandedly wipe aside all our ills, that he alone will Make America Great Again. Anyone who doesn't like him only does so because they've been brainwashed by The Liberal Media, as anyone who's Aware of the Truth should know that there is no one better to lead us.

    I wish I were exaggerating, but I'm not. These people scare the fuck out of me.

  15. #1290
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    On the one hand I don't want to say our situation is as bad as Brexit since a US presidency is time-limited (only 4 to 8 years), whereas Brexit will be around anywhere from decades to forever. You know, assuming Parliament doesn't drop the "it was just an advisory vote" or some kind of gimmick like that.

    The catch is, this election is bigger than just a kook running under the GOP ticket. It may be signal that one of our major parties is already in the preliminary stages of completely collapsing and the entire conservative bloc is being thrown into disarray if not a kind of bloodless coup of the party, which may wreak political havoc that lasts a lot longer than just the next few years. Will we end up with a new party? A reformed GOP that looks nothing like a conservative party?

    Actually that last possibility brings up one of the most interesting ironies of the GOP & Tea Party hooplah the last few years, which is that the Tea Party's main line of attack against "establishment" Republicans were that they're RINOs, Republicans in name only. That's ironic because under the umbrella of that line of attack, they've recreated the Republican party to basically be Republican in name only, looking nothing like anything Nixon or Reagan or even Bush I & II would recognize.

    ......

    Edit: I guess I'll respond to heywood's little swipe at one of my last posts while I'm at it. What are you a lawyer now? This isn't a formal deposition. But anyway, word is Hillary asked Powell if it's possible/how to use her Blackberry for State Dept work, and he gave her some throwaway line about separating secure and non-secure email use which she later claimed was, well not a justification since what she did wasn't justified, but a mitigation maybe. That's what I was handwaving at with bullshit paraphrasing. He wasn't giving her a powerpoint presentation how to set up a private server or anything. And what if I told you Rice and Powell were both Hillary's predecessors in the literal sense of the word, and I found it simpler just to say "predecessor" referring to the latter instead of blowing another three words ("one of her predecessors") to be exact, which happens when I type on a phone?

    They're academic points anyway. She violated a pretty basic standard, was wrung through the process far enough to have to admit it, it's nothing that can be justified, but it wasn't intentional (unlike the Patraeus or Snowden cases some people keep analogizing) or otherwise meeting the legal elements that would have brought on a viable prosecution. And people that get heated up about it or the other things I have to think have never worked in the public sector because petty irregular shit like that is rampant. People's emotion should at least be proportional to the playing field.

    For what it's worth, I worked at State under Powell and I had to be uber careful about using secure systems and harddrives for email, and making sure the HDs were secure, etc. (So Tony was wrong saying he's the only one in this thread that has experience with that.) We even had cybersecurity training where I won a copy of Masters of Deception (great book by the way) because I was the only one in our group that knew the biggest private investor in early internet was the adult industry.
    Last edited by demagogue; 2nd Nov 2016 at 04:24.

  16. #1291
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    I was correcting the story that you made up in order to make an excuse for Clinton, which is exactly the sort of thing I was complaining about. There is a big difference between paraphrasing something and twisting it into a different narrative.

    And people that get heated up about it or the other things I have to think have never worked in the public sector because petty irregular shit like that is rampant.
    More rationalization. On what basis do you say this is rampant? I can't think of any other case where a public official has gone through the effort Hillary did to conduct government business off the public record, and more importantly prevent it from getting into the public record by fighting it in court and then deleting half of it, and do it all with seemingly little care about protecting national security information. Who else does this? I want to keep them out of government too.

    I just don't get where you and others are coming from at all. I get the Hillary is the lesser of two evils argument. Totally. What I don't get is the mental gymnastics to rationalize/justify/dismiss her behavior as if it's not important.

  17. #1292
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: 0x0x0
    The Hair Hat VS. The Shrew....

    Seriously folks, this is so bad. Both the hard left and hard right have become so brainwashed by partisan politics we're left with these two clowns. The best thing we can do is vote for Johnson. You lefties should be fine with him as he seems like Bernie light. As a social moderate but fiscal conservative I can survive four years of anybody except maybe Clinton...who I'm convinced is going after anybody with a 7 figure bank account.

  18. #1293
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    I just said it wasn't an excuse. My point was about relative emotion, not any kind of defense.

    As for blunder corruption in the public sector, I mean every bureacrat that casually trashes a legal order or makes a call to a friend to quash something, or starts acting ultra vires until the next thing you know 40 prisoners get sexually molested or half the state of California is having rolling brown outs, every congressman that has a dinner with some association that carries a lot of water in their district and policies get made... Corruptions big and small happen every day. Places with a lot of oversight get action, places with no oversight fester and set in. Hillary's action had oversight, she didn't "get away with it", but it wasn't prosecuteable.

    It's not like we're coming from different places. I'm a public law lawyer. Nothing delights me more than public corruption sweeps. But I think in institutional terms, how to set up regs, monitoring and responses that actually work across every level of government in every sector. For me, this is a massive issue & I take the widelens view of it. It's not just a political chess piece. If there's some crime here & evidence to sustain the elements, then great. But if it turns into a red herring, there's a lot sectors that need some of that sunlight to kill the mold growing in them.

  19. #1294
    Quote Originally Posted by faetal View Post
    I think the reason we're hearing so much negative stuff about Clinton is that it gives Republican voters something to talk about to justify their voting for Trump, which isn't trying to find something positive to say about Trump.
    Because imagine if you had to try to justify voting for Trump based on his merits...
    That stuff has been around for YEARS before any sane person even thought Trump was going to run.

    Hell her involvement in arms smuggling on behalf of foundation donors is already well documented.

  20. #1295
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    You know, most people look at Trump as a kind of sad alternative, some going so far as to think he may end up making a decent president, maybe in spite of all his obvious flaws. They're tired of the status quo, and think the country needs a good shake-up to get back on its feet. I can't say I entirely disagree with them, at least not the sentiment, though I believe if we're going to go that route, we should wait for something truly better to come along, rather than grab for the first alternative that happens our way.
    That seems fairly accurate. The strongest point in his argument is that leak about how the VP would be in charge of significant parts of his policies, and Pence (aside from his gay cake PR fiasco) was an effective Indiana governor.

    The other advantage to Trump is that if he does anything outrageous the government will actually use the built in checks and balances to stop him. If Hillary gets in every single crazy, destructive idea she has will be rubber-stamped by congress, the courts, the "deep state" bureaucrats, and the lobbyists.
    But there are some people who speak of the man in almost reverential tones. Saying he's the perfect person for a tough job, that he'll go through a singlehandedly wipe aside all our ills, that he alone will Make America Great Again. Anyone who doesn't like him only does so because they've been brainwashed by The Liberal Media, as anyone who's Aware of the Truth should know that there is no one better to lead us.


    I wish I were exaggerating, but I'm not. These people scare the fuck out of me.
    To be fair that's more or less how American DNC loyalists have sounded since....forever. Remember when Hillary Clinton was "the smartest woman in the world" or when people thought Obama was some kind of messiah?


    Seriously folks, this is so bad. Both the hard left and hard right have become so brainwashed by partisan politics we're left with these two clowns. The best thing we can do is vote for Johnson. You lefties should be fine with him as he seems like Bernie light. As a social moderate but fiscal conservative I can survive four years of anybody except maybe Clinton...who I'm convinced is going after anybody with a 7 figure bank account.
    Repeating myself here, but people should seriously consider it. The reason why is that a strong third party vote CAN trigger a response. Remember it was a 3rd party vote in 1992 that terrified the Republican party into fiscal sanity during the 90's and resulted in one of the country's greatest economic periods.


    (well maybe not "resulted", since I have a very non-traditional view of economics....but it sure didn't hurt the magnitude of that growth cycle)

  21. #1296
    Quote Originally Posted by catbarf View Post
    Hi, I do. Starker is correct in his quote of Comey. Contrary to your example, your unsecure email server would likely not result in your imprisonment. Immediate arrest, certainly. Interrogation, probably. Court process, formal charges, conviction? Nah. Unless the court could demonstrate that you exfiltrated classified information through either gross negligence or deliberate intent to harm the United States, you wouldn't be charged under espionage law and consequently the worst you would face would be getting the boot and a clearance revocation. And yes, that holds true for TS//SCI (and any specific compartments you care to mention).
    Actually glad to see I'm wrong on that assumption. I'm pretty sure that it would be considered gross negligence to do that. Mere carelessness would get you a clearance revocation.

    At least that's the way were briefed on it.....and from what I am hearing her server actually had SAPs on them that were hacked into by foreign entities, hence the rebellion in the FBI against Comey. I'm also only talking about the on paper policy. In practice there's already a long standing precedent of high ranking officials who have been prosecuted for doing the same as or less than what Hillary did.

    Besides which it's the tip of the iceberg. It's peanuts compared to what was in the (oddly and suddenly cancelled) Clinton Foundation investigation.

  22. #1297
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    That stuff has been around for YEARS before any sane person even thought Trump was going to run.

    Hell her involvement in arms smuggling on behalf of foundation donors is already well documented.
    Still not hearing anything during this election amounting to positive notes for Trump (other than the scary evangelical stuff Renz referred to).

  23. #1298
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2010
    FBI in revolt. Actively highlighting records from past Clinton investigations in the form of document dumps.

    For example, the highly suspect details of Vince Foster's death:



    Meanwhile... more details about Trumps mafia ties surface.

    Mob boss vs Traitorous ISIS Weapon Dealer the final showdown!

    Vote Jill Stein?

  24. #1299
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    What is the source of that image? Because I'm having trouble figuring out why, with crime scene photos it would be worth anyone's while to do a line drawing just for annotation purposes.

  25. #1300
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    It's a postcard for entertainment purposes, something kooks mail to each other for a laugh. I bet people mail it with bitcoin freedom stamps with a The Postman-like postapoc private mail service too.

Page 52 of 428 FirstFirst ... 271217222732374247484950515253545556576267727782879297102152302 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •