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View Poll Results: How long will Trump be President?

Voters
144. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1 Term (4 Years)

    26 18.06%
  • 2 Terms (8 Years)

    51 35.42%
  • 1st Term Impeachment/Assassination

    50 34.72%
  • 2nd Term Impeachment/Assassination

    4 2.78%
  • I don't know what's going on!

    13 9.03%

Thread: ✮✮✮ !Trump Dump! ✮✮✮

  1. #13276
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    I'm with Vae on this one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    The perception of "Trump doing a lot of damage to himself in the first month of the COVID-19 response", is a left-wing perspective,
    Note that Vae talks about "the perception of".
    This is the difference. No matter what Trump does, Fox News, Breitbart, other alt-right media and facebook-memes, will explain to their viewers what a great job Trump did. What a great job he is doing right now. And that Murica is the bestest country in the world. And they, the greatest voters in the world are all winners, because they voted the greatest President of all time anywhere in the world, into the White House. And their viewers will love it. Regardless of what the truth is, the perception of half of the Americans is that Trump is the best, no matter what.

    You should realize that you live in a country where the fascists have a firm grip on your democracy, through channels like Fox News and Breitbart. Reality is a lot less important now.

    fueled by propaganda outlets such as CNN and MSNBC. It has only given false hope that they have a chance with Biden...in which they do not.
    I disagree that CNN and MSNBC are propaganda outlets. They are not. They are old-fashioned, right-wing, capitalistic companies that want to make money. They might support the establishment (because that is always the safe thing to do). But they are not doing any propaganda. If you wanna see propaganda, just watch Fox News for a day. That's propaganda.

    I'll give you guys an example of perception versus reality.
    Suppose Trump decided that best solution against covid-19 would be to throw a few nuclear bombs on SF, NYC and LA.
    Suppose he bombs those 3 cities and kills 20 million American citizen.
    The next day Fox News and Breitbart and all the alt-right media will be jumping up and down to explain how Trump saved the nation.
    And half the Americans will eat that perception. And they'll think Trump is the best President ever. He just saved America !
    And over half the nation will vote Trump. Trump will win.

    Perception > reality.

  2. #13277
    BANNED
    Registered: Nov 2016
    Location: Trollinus Maximus
    LIBERALS , only the GOVT should have guns

    also liberals, damn trigger happy POS cops...........

  3. #13278
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    There are no "people like me"...even though you would like to think that, in order to character assassinate via association. It is a pathetic, petty ploy, that is ineffectual.
    And yet you repeat literally every single talking point spread about by the Trump fanatics, use their same turns of phrases, make the same accusations. Pardon me for assuming you're one of the clones.

  4. #13279
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
    LIBERALS , only the GOVT should have guns

    also liberals, damn trigger happy POS cops...........
    "Hmm, this strawman argument seems irrational. I wonder why that is."

    Meanwhile, in the real world there is no inconsistency between thinking that guns are dangerous weapons whose use and manufacture should be regulated accordingly, and that cops shouldn't be prancing around in military gear and waving around rifles with "You're fucked" carved into them.

  5. #13280
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    What a difference a week can make, huh?

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1240041548672380931

  6. #13281
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Well, the messaging in the right-wing sphere has been quite schizophrenic for a while: https://www.thedailybeast.com/right-...d-chinas-fault

  7. #13282
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    So long as, in the end, Trump is entirely blameless, and it's the Democrats and their propagandists in the MSM's fault, then we're all good.

  8. #13283
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Not to worry -- in the end it turned out it was all Jared's fault:

    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020...ovid-19-danger

    Last Thursday, as the stock market was on the way to losing nearly 2,400 points—its biggest single-day plunge since the 1987 Black Monday crash—Donald Trump was worrying about the fate of the football season. NFL players aren’t scheduled to report to training camp for months, but according to a source, Trump feared that the league might preemptively announce it was following the NBA and NHL and suspend or delay operations due to the coronavirus. So Trump called NFL owners to see if any action was on the horizon. “Trump begged them not to cancel the season,” a source briefed on the call said.

    Trump’s concern for the NFL’s well-being was a stark reversal given that he spent the first two years of his presidency attacking the league and its kneeling players. It reflected Trump’s magical thinking that he could manage the coronavirus pandemic by convincing people life would remain normal and sports would be played. (Last week, Trump also spoke with Ultimate Fighting Championship president Dana White and advised him not to cancel UFC events.) “Trump thinks this is a media problem,” a Republican close to the White House told me. Treating COVID-19 as a public-relations crisis put Trump at odds with the medical community, including the White House’s chief coronavirus adviser, Dr. Anthony Fauci. During an interview on Meet the Press this weekend, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases urged the United States to move toward a national lockdown similar to the actions taken by Italy and Spain. “I think we should really be overly aggressive and get criticized for overreacting,” Fauci said.

    With the markets in free fall despite emergency action by the Fed over the weekend, Trump is waking up to the reality that’s been clear to everyone: Coronavirus poses a once-in-a-hundred-years threat to the country. “In the last 48 hours he has understood the magnitude of what’s going on,” a former West Wing official told me. As Trump processes the stakes facing the country—and his presidency—he’s also lashing out at advisers, whom he blames for the White House’s inept and flat-footed response. Sources say a principal target of his anger is Jared Kushner. “I have never heard so many people inside the White House openly discuss how pissed Trump is at Jared,” the former West Wing official said.

    Sources told me Trump is regretting that Kushner swooped into the coronavirus response last week. Kushner, according to sources, encouraged Trump to treat the emergency as a P.R. problem when Fauci and others were calling for aggressive action. “This was Jared saying the world needs me to solve another problem,” a former White House official said. One source briefed on the internal conversations told me that Kushner advised Trump not to call a national emergency during his Oval Office address on March 11 because “it would tank the markets.” The markets cratered anyway, and Trump announced the national emergency on Friday. “They had to clean that up on Friday,” another former West Wing official said. Trump was also said to be angry that Kushner oversold Google’s coronavirus testing website when in fact the tech giant had a fledgling effort. Trump got slammed in the press for promoting the phantom Google product. “Jared told Trump that Google was doing an entire website that would be up in 72 hours and had 1,100 people working on it 24/7. That’s just a lie,” the source briefed on the internal conversations told me.
    [...]
    Though it appears his qualifications as First Son-in-law are still enough to earn him a prominent seat at the table:


  9. #13284
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: Netherlands
    He looks like Sheldon Cooper in that picture. I figure he has about as much empathy for other people as Sheldon Cooper does as well.

  10. #13285
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    He's a slumlord. Sheldon is a Care Bear compared to him.

  11. #13286
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Please! A patron of affordable housing!

  12. #13287
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    "A fine-tuned machine":

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...597_story.html

    U.S. intelligence agencies were issuing ominous, classified warnings in January and February about the global danger posed by the coronavirus while President Trump and lawmakers played down the threat and failed to take action that might have slowed the spread of the pathogen, according to U.S. officials familiar with spy agency reporting.

    The intelligence reports didn’t predict when the virus might land on U.S. shores or recommend particular steps that public health officials should take, issues outside the purview of the intelligence agencies. But they did track the spread of the virus in China, and later in other countries, and warned that Chinese officials appeared to be minimizing the severity of the outbreak.

    Taken together, the reports and warnings painted an early picture of a virus that showed the characteristics of a globe-encircling pandemic that could require governments to take swift actions to contain it. But despite that constant flow of reporting, Trump continued publicly and privately to play down the threat the virus posed to Americans. Lawmakers, too, did not grapple with the virus in earnest until this month, as officials scrambled to keep citizens in their homes and hospitals braced for a surge in patients suffering from covid-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus.

    Intelligence agencies “have been warning on this since January,” said a U.S. official who had access to intelligence reporting that was disseminated to members of Congress and their staffs as well as to officials in the Trump administration, and who, along with others, spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe sensitive information.

    “Donald Trump may not have been expecting this, but a lot of other people in the government were — they just couldn’t get him to do anything about it,” this official said. “The system was blinking red.”

    [...]

    Inside the White House, Trump’s advisers struggled to get him to take the virus seriously, according to multiple officials with knowledge of meetings among those advisers and with the president.

    Azar couldn’t get through to Trump to speak with him about the virus until Jan. 18, according to two senior administration officials. When he reached Trump by phone, the president interjected to ask about vaping and when flavored vaping products would be back on the market, the senior administration officials said.

    On Jan. 27, White House aides huddled with then-acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney in his office, trying to get senior officials to pay more attention to the virus, according to people briefed on the meeting. Joe Grogan, the head of the White House Domestic Policy Council, argued that the administration needed to take the virus seriously or it could cost the president his reelection, and that dealing with the virus was likely to dominate life in the United States for many months.

    Mulvaney then began convening more regular meetings. In early briefings, however, officials said Trump was dismissive because he did not believe that the virus had spread widely throughout the United States.

    By early February, Grogan and others worried that there weren’t enough tests to determine the rate of infection, according to people who spoke directly to Grogan. Other officials, including Matthew Pottinger, the president’s deputy national security adviser, began calling for a more forceful response, according to people briefed on White House meetings.

    But Trump resisted and continued to assure Americans that the coronavirus would never run rampant as it had in other countries.

    “I think it’s going to work out fine,” Trump said on Feb. 19. “I think when we get into April, in the warmer weather, that has a very negative effect on that and that type of a virus.”

    “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA,” Trump tweeted five days later. “Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

    But earlier that month, a senior official in the Department of Health and Human Services delivered a starkly different message to the Senate Intelligence Committee, in a classified briefing that four U.S. officials said covered the coronavirus and its global health implications.

    Robert Kadlec, the assistant secretary for preparedness and response — who was joined by intelligence officials, including from the CIA — told committee members that the virus posed a “serious” threat, one of those officials said.

    Kadlec didn’t provide specific recommendations, but he said that to get ahead of the virus and blunt its effects, Americans would need to take actions that could disrupt their daily lives, the official said. “It was very alarming.”

    Trump’s insistence on the contrary seemed to rest in his relationship with China’s President Xi Jingping, whom Trump believed was providing him with reliable information about how the virus was spreading in China, despite reports from intelligence agencies that Chinese officials were not being candid about the true scale of the crisis.

    Some of Trump’s advisers told him that Beijing was not providing accurate numbers of people who were infected or who had died, according to administration officials. Rather than press China to be more forthcoming, Trump publicly praised its response.

    “China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus,” Trump tweeted Jan. 24. “The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”

    [...]

    As the first cases of infection were confirmed in the United States, Trump continued to insist that the risk to Americans was small.

    “I think the virus is going to be — it’s going to be fine,” he said on Feb. 10.

    “We have a very small number of people in the country, right now, with it,” he said four days later. “It’s like around 12. Many of them are getting better. Some are fully recovered already. So we’re in very good shape.”

    On Feb. 25, Nancy Messonnier, a senior CDC official, sounded perhaps the most significant public alarm to that point, when she told reporters that the coronavirus was likely to spread within communities in the United States and that disruptions to daily life could be “severe.” Trump called Azar on his way back from a trip to India and complained that Messonnier was scaring the stock markets, according to two senior administration officials.

    Trump eventually changed his tone after being shown statistical models about the spread of the virus from other countries and hearing directly from Deborah Birx, the coordinator of the White House coronavirus task force, as well as from chief executives last week rattled by a plunge in the stock market, said people *familiar with Trump’s conversations.

    But by then, the signs pointing to a major outbreak in the United States were everywhere.

  13. #13288
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    But her emails.

  14. #13289
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    The stupid thing about this is his base is going to be oblivious to it--they didn't take it seriously in January and February either so could hardly blame him--and the only thing they'll recognize by late next fall is we somehow survived (/are surviving) this and Trump was the captain our captain that saw us through it.

  15. #13290
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    There is a bear in the woods virus in the world:


  16. #13291
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    The stupid thing about this is his base is going to be oblivious to it--they didn't take it seriously in January and February either so could hardly blame him--and the only thing they'll recognize by late next fall is we somehow survived (/are surviving) this and Trump was the captain our captain that saw us through it.
    Pretty much this. It was a fake news hoax until it wasn't, then Donald Trump came in, and saved the day. Why are we being so mean to him? It's because we're jealous/have TDS.

    You know, I wish I had a job where I could fuck up this much, and still get praised for doing the bestest job ever. Apparently the presidency is the ultimate participation trophy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    There is a bear in the woods virus in the world:
    I won't lie to you, Starker. I thought that was a screamer video up until the very end.

  17. #13292
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2005
    Location: Not Kansas
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    The stupid thing about this is his base is going to be oblivious to it--they didn't take it seriously in January and February either so could hardly blame him--and the only thing they'll recognize by late next fall is we somehow survived (/are surviving) this and Trump was the captain our captain that saw us through it.
    '(Trump, during his daily coronavirus task force press conference on Friday) Alexander interrupted the next reporter who was called on, shouting, “What do you say to Americans who are scared?” “I say that you’re a terrible reporter. That’s what I say,” Trump fired back.'

    Yeah, he's really 'seeing us through it' alright. He's more worried about his ratings than he is the real state of our Union. Hell, his 'visit' to the CDC headquarters two weeks ago was a joke and nothing but a photo op for him. Reading news articles that have headlines like 'Trump’s CDC visit turns into scattershot defense on coronavirus response: Falsely claims tests are fully available, calls Wash. governor ‘a snake’' really inspires hope in all of us, right? Epic fail. I'm glad I've never heard a Trump supporter brag (in RL) about how we're all 'winning' under Trump, because I'd probably be arrested for popping him right in the nose. And I'm not a violent person. *smh*

  18. #13293
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    "A fine-tuned machine", part 2:

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...esponse-140883

    After months of minimizing the threat to the United States, President Donald Trump jumped feet-first into the coronavirus fight this week with vows of quick fixes to the testing problem, claims about potential cures, and efforts to rope in agencies that had inexplicably been excluded, like FEMA.

    The show of action played well in the White House briefing room and with the public, but has had a different impact behind the scenes. Health-agency officials and outside advisers to the administration, speaking on the condition of anonymity, described a chaotic situation in which leaders rushed to address presidential requests that sometimes seem to come on a whim while losing focus on longer-term challenges.

    Trump’s drive to announce unfinished initiatives created a “need to make good on half-baked promises,” said one senior official — who, like other Americans, learned about some initiatives only when the president announced them at the White House podium.

    For instance, no one in the White House had devised a national strategy for obtaining and distributing the necessary supplies in the likely months-long fight against the pandemic that lies ahead, said three people with knowledge of the planning efforts. Those supply-planning efforts are only now underway.

    [...]

    Trump has worked to tamp down concerns about insufficient tests and supplies, saying that the flurry of federal, state and local efforts will be sufficient. “If California can get a mask sooner than we can get it for them, through all of the things we're able to do, we'll end up with a big over-supply,” the president said at a press conference on Saturday. “At some point this is going away.”

    [...]

    Meanwhile, Trump on Saturday was asked about “the plan” to contain coronavirus as the nation enters day 6 of the White House’s 15-day campaign to slow the virus’ spread, and specifically whether additional measures needed to be taken.

    The president declined to detail next steps, saying only that leaders would know more next week.

    “We’ll have to see what the result is,” Trump said.

    Who would have thought that Michael Lewis's The Fifth Risk would prove so prescient. Out of all the books describing the chaos in Lord Dampnut's administration and its potential ramifications, it was probably the driest, the most policy focused, the least partisan... and the most scary. And it's all coming true.

  19. #13294
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Anne Marie Slaughter wrote an op/ed for the NYTimes today that was basically: the one saving grace of a relatively free~ish liberal democracy like the US, compared to top-down authoritarian gov'ts like China, is that, while in the short run they can't clamp down with command-and-control restrictions like total travel bans and lock-downs as well, in the long run experts and local authorities have more space and ability to organize more effective action and completely bypass the top command altogether, and she was giving examples of how agencies and lower level government were taking action without waiting for clear direction that we know isn't going to come, at least in a useful form. (This probably applies to other democracies that are in shambles at the top too.)

    It's already been reported how far the gears of gov't try to get away with pretending Trump doesn't exist. But if ever there were a time for that, that time is now. The hoi polloi can snub their noses at elites with pointless gestures and value signaling all they want, but the fact that that's about all they can do and elites get to control things because they're the only ones that understand how to actually operate this thing is what's going to get us through this relatively unscathed less mortally scathed than the alternative if anything can.

  20. #13295
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Republican voters are older (average age is 50y) than Democrat voters (average age is 47y). (Note: I found this statistic somewhere on the web. I have no idea how old or how accurate those numbers are).

    The fatalities of the corona virus are mostly older people.
    So if 5% of the US population dies because of the covid-19, the spread might actually be something like 1/3rd Democrats and 2/3rd Republicans.
    If enough old people die, this might have the effect of tipping the balance in favor of the Democrats.

    Serendipity.
    Last edited by Gryzemuis; 22nd Mar 2020 at 11:08.

  21. #13296
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    That's like 15 million people or so.

  22. #13297
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    Anne Marie Slaughter wrote an op/ed for the NYTimes today that was basically: the one saving grace of a relatively free~ish liberal democracy like the US, compared to top-down authoritarian gov'ts like China, is that, while in the short run they can't clamp down with command-and-control restrictions like total travel bans and lock-downs as well, in the long run experts and local authorities have more space and ability to organize more effective action and completely bypass the top command altogether, and she was giving examples of how agencies and lower level government were taking action without waiting for clear direction that we know isn't going to come, at least in a useful form. (This probably applies to other democracies that are in shambles at the top too.)

    It's already been reported how far the gears of gov't try to get away with pretending Trump doesn't exist. But if ever there were a time for that, that time is now. The hoi polloi can snub their noses at elites with pointless gestures and value signaling all they want, but the fact that that's about all they can do and elites get to control things because they're the only ones that understand how to actually operate this thing is what's going to get us through this relatively unscathed less mortally scathed than the alternative if anything can.
    That's always been the hope, hasn't it -- that the people Lord Dampnut installed stay out of the way of the competent people, that lost funding and research can be replenished, and that the fired experts can be rehired. But that's what's so difficult about the problem Lewis describes -- you can't just destroy a resource built up in months and years and decades and then expect to just rebuild it in a short amount of time. Once you destroy the culture and expertise built up in an institution, that's not something you can solve by leaving them to do their thing in a crisis.

  23. #13298
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    That's like 15 million people or so.
    Do you have any reason, any number, any indication to believe the percentage will be lower ?

  24. #13299
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    ...Are you joking? Reasonable estimations are ~3% or less, nor will everyone get it in the first place even if we did nothing, nor are there no mitigation efforts already underway. The study that sent everyone scrambling estimated a worst-case scenario of 4 million dead in the U.S.A., and that was under the assumption we did nothing and the health system was overwhelmed.

  25. #13300
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    TBH I have no idea.
    I still see people who don't take this seriously. I still see politicians that think we can get away with partial solutions. We don't have a vaccine or a medicine. And the biggest problem I see is: what will happen when numbers go down, and countries come out of lockdown ? Will the cycle repeat ? Anything is possible, I'm afraid.
    Last edited by Gryzemuis; 23rd Mar 2020 at 06:58.

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