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View Poll Results: How long will Trump be President?

Voters
144. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1 Term (4 Years)

    26 18.06%
  • 2 Terms (8 Years)

    51 35.42%
  • 1st Term Impeachment/Assassination

    50 34.72%
  • 2nd Term Impeachment/Assassination

    4 2.78%
  • I don't know what's going on!

    13 9.03%

Thread: ✮✮✮ !Trump Dump! ✮✮✮

  1. #13626
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by catbarf View Post
    Police unions seem to be a bigger part of this, or at least closer to a root cause. From checkthepolice.org:
    The entire orchard seems to be rotten to the core and it's becoming more and more clear that punishing a few bad apples who were too bold or got too careless to be caught on camera will do absolutely nothing to help the larger issue.

    Where is the outrage in the police when they see defenceless civilians being beaten up by roving groups of what essentially amount to thugs in uniforms. Where is the outrage when fellow members of their profession completely unprovoked repeatedly shoot people in the head with rubber bullets -- bullets that are meant to be used as the last resort, because they have enough force to fracture bone and cause concussions. It makes it look like the vast majority of them tacitly support such tactics.

    Also, what the hell is up with those cops who are not wearing any identification and who are refusing to answer what unit they belong to? If history is any indication, things like these never end up well.

    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    It's right there in the link. It was the top reply at the time Starker posted. Now you have to expand the thread to see it. I don't know why you need it. If you didn't see the punch to the cameraman in the first video, then you're letting your anti-protester bias override your eyes.
    Yeah, it's not very obvious in the first video, because the cameraman is first hit in the stomach with the edge of a shield and he lowers the camera.

    Here it is in slow motion: https://twitter.com/TheoShantonas/st...64858122469378

  2. #13627
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Also, what the hell is up with those cops who are not wearing any identification and who are refusing to answer what unit they belong to?
    Apparently they're riot teams from the Federal Bureau of Prisons.

  3. #13628
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Well that second video is much clearer. The cameraman is around the corner and in any other situation I'd think the police weren't taking chances regarding an individual they can't see - but here it seems unlikely that there was any risk.

    I'm probably more authoritarian in view than you snowflakes, but I'm still a liberal authoritarian. I'm certainly not biased against the protestors - that makes no sense at all. I'm definitely biased against looters though.

  4. #13629
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    The entire orchard seems to be rotten to the core and it's becoming more and more clear that punishing a few bad apples who were too bold or got too careless to be caught on camera will do absolutely nothing to help the larger issue.

    Where is the outrage in the police when they see defenceless civilians being beaten up by roving groups of what essentially amount to thugs in uniforms. Where is the outrage when fellow members of their profession completely unprovoked repeatedly shoot people in the head with rubber bullets -- bullets that are meant to be used as the last resort, because they have enough force to fracture bone and cause concussions. It makes it look like the vast majority of them tacitly support such tactics.

    Also, what the hell is up with those cops who are not wearing any identification and who are refusing to answer what unit they belong to? If history is any indication, things like these never end up well.
    To be fair, there have been cops on the record taking issue with some of the responses to the protests. There are good departments and there are bad. You're seeing the bad, because the departments that have handled the protests and riots with restraint only make the local news.

    There's also cases where the police were actively avoiding any use of force and then they were attacked. Just as there's good cops and bad cops, there's protesters and then there's violent rioters.

  5. #13630
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Sure, a few cops have spoken up and props to them. But many more have been silent and watched on as their colleagues sullied their profession and their honour. And yes, there are good and bad people among any group, but like I said, it doesn't seem like it's just a few bad cops, the whole system seems to be rotten, including, but by no means limited to

    the institutions who hire these bad cops in the first place, won't investigate their misdeeds, and go to great lengths to keep them on even as complaints rack up
    the public who disbelieves and demonises the victims
    the colleagues who stay silent or even help cover up their misdeeds
    the prosecutors who won't even try to indict them
    the judges who let them off with only a slap on the wrist
    the laws and courts that grant them nearly a complete immunity for using excessive force
    Last edited by Starker; 4th Jun 2020 at 14:39.

  6. #13631
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    It might look that simple on the surface but it's actually a whole set of complications that are very hard to get right.

    The problem is, if you get it wrong you essentially hamstring the police and they NEED to have a range of violent responses in their toolkit because real criminals are c#nts.

  7. #13632
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    The Protect and Serve statue in front of Salt Lake City's Public Safety Building got an update:


  8. #13633
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    SubJeff, of course the police need to have a spectrum of responses available to them but to escalate directly to violent attacks on peaceful protesters, especially in the Tiny Man Square Bible stunt, is the opposite of a proportional response. So is targeting the press. So is firing on people in their homes for the crime of standing at their windows.

  9. #13634
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Washington DC
    Don't forget, especially in regards to good departments speaking up, how several departments have had police kneel in solidarity with the protestors- only to then rejoin the lines of riot police and deploy tear gas and rubber bullets to break up the protest, once the press had left. Rather hard to tell between the 'good ones' and 'bad ones'.

    The institutions behind police departments- their unions, the laws, and the department policies themselves, all contribute to bad policing and defend and shield bad cops against retribution, while driving out good cops who aren't willing to play ball. The 'some cops are good' defense isn't meaningful nuance, it's a deflection. These are institutional problems that apply to all police.

    If it comes down to it, I would rather err on the side of hamstringing police than allow this mess to continue. And there's certainly a lot we can do without that even being a tangentially relevant concern. Police do not need milsurp vehicles, civil asset forfeiture, revenue-driven policing, or immunity to legal consequences for their actions, in order to protect communities.

  10. #13635
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    One instance that kind of stuck with me was where the police took a knee to lure protesters closer so they could mace them. It's as if it was all a big joke to them.

    Another thing, something that has really bothered me, has been the absolutely awful handling of guns, well, by all kinds of people in the US, truth to be told, but especially by the police, who really should know better.

    When I received weapons training for the first time, it was drilled in my head to absolutely never ever under no circumstances aim a gun at a person unless I'm fully ready to shoot them, to always treat a gun as if it was loaded, the importance of keeping proper trigger discipline at all times, etc. There were a couple of guys who fooled around a bit (we were given toy guns to practice) and they were immediately sent home without any warning.

    So when I see the police waving guns around and pointing them at unarmed protesters, when I hear all the stories about how people have been held at gunpoint by the police for essentially walking down the street, it just beggars belief. And many people from the US seem to have real horror stories about the US police that, when I compare them to my experiences with the police here, sound something close to dystopian science fiction, if not something right out of a Judge Dredd comic. Even the thing where police very casually kill people's dogs in the US is something that just doesn't happen around here.
    Last edited by Starker; 4th Jun 2020 at 17:55.

  11. #13636
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    I think the whole system is corrupt, and it's not just in the U.S, it's worldwide.

    Over here in Aus we have Aboriginal deaths in custody all the time. Often put in custody for things no white person would be arrested for, let alone put in a cell for (eg for falling asleep drunk on public transport). Taking color out of the equation, they take forever to respond to calls for help. My wife and I were chased down a beach by some crazy lunatic one night, I called the police and they took 40 minutes to arrive. The crazed lunatic was infront of us when I made the call and they knew that. And yet they still took 40 minutes. If he'd had a knife we'd be dead. They very often take an hour or more to respond to home invasion related calls. It's just ridiculous.

    They are supposed to protect and serve the public, but that's not what their doing at all. Somewhere, at some point, things deviated from the purpose of why they were setup and there needs to be massive changes.

  12. #13637
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Another thing, something that has really bothered me, has been the absolutely awful handling of guns, well, by all kinds of people in the US, truth to be told, but especially by the police, who really should know better.

    When I received weapons training for the first time, it was drilled in my head to absolutely never ever under no circumstances aim a gun at a person unless I'm fully ready to shoot them, to always treat a gun as if it was loaded, the importance of keeping proper trigger discipline at all times, etc. There were a couple of guys who fooled around a bit (we were given toy guns to practice) and they were immediately sent home without any warning.
    As someone who was trained to carry a gun by Uncle Sam, yeah, me too. On average, American police receive only a few hours of training time on gun use. Most American police only shoot for qualification testing per year, and their requirements are almost universally abysmal. The general public averages a 25% hit rate in home invasions; police average 18%. The number of reportable firearm accidents among cops exceeds the combined number of reportable incidents among concealed carry permit holders by a wide margin in every state that tracks such statistics. There are numerous incidents of police killing innocent bystanders in crossfire- one such incident in New York involved something like seven people shot, all from the police going after one guy with a gun.

    I've said it before, I'll say it again: I have a real problem with the idea that the general public can't be trusted with semi-automatic rifles, but cops deserve carte blanche exceptions. This general tendency to treat cops as experts in anything, be it law, firearm use, de-escalation, or any other topic tangentially related to policing, is extremely dangerous.

    I am friends with retired military personnel who did their four years of enlistment right out of high school, and they received better instruction in use of force, escalation, and ROE than these cops are demonstrating. It's ridiculous. I am constantly seeing videos of pepperballs used in contexts that don't even remotely justify them, and police escalating to beatings and rubber bullets- both potentially lethal force- in response to any hint of non-compliance. It's completely fucked up, and I sincerely hope that this is the wake-up call that Americans need to realize that cops are not the highly qualified professionals they take them for.

  13. #13638
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by catbarf View Post
    I've said it before, I'll say it again: I have a real problem with the idea that the general public can't be trusted with semi-automatic rifles, but cops deserve carte blanche exceptions. This general tendency to treat cops as experts in anything, be it law, firearm use, de-escalation, or any other topic tangentially related to policing, is extremely dangerous.

    I am friends with retired military personnel who did their four years of enlistment right out of high school, and they received better instruction in use of force, escalation, and ROE than these cops are demonstrating. It's ridiculous. I am constantly seeing videos of pepperballs used in contexts that don't even remotely justify them, and police escalating to beatings and rubber bullets- both potentially lethal force- in response to any hint of non-compliance. It's completely fucked up, and I sincerely hope that this is the wake-up call that Americans need to realize that cops are not the highly qualified professionals they take them for.
    You've said it, nothing to add.

    It's the obvious *bad* consequence of police glorification.

  14. #13639
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Whoever wrote this headline has just the right amount of smartass that the situation calls for.


  15. #13640
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Remember that time 50 scandals or so ago when Lord Dampnut was blocking hundreds of millions of dollars congressionally mandated military aid to pressure a foreign leader into announcing an investigation into his main political opponent and his son?

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN23B2RB

    KIEV (Reuters) - An audit of thousands of old case files by Ukrainian prosecutors found no evidence of wrongdoing on the part of Hunter Biden, the former prosecutor general, who had launched the audit, told Reuters.

  16. #13641
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Washington DC
    'A few bad apples'

    All 57 members of riot team step down in support of two cops who were suspended for shoving a 75-year-old man to the ground and denying him medical aid as blood poured out of his ears.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...nd/3153626001/

  17. #13642
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    I watched the video and I don't see denial of medical aid. I heard the police calling for a medic though.

    Where did they deny medical aid?

    Also, they didn't shove him to the ground - they shove him and he clearly slips or trips.

    So you're wondering "why is SubJeff defending this assholes?". I'm not. I'm stating the facts. They shove him, which was unnecessary and that they are guilty of. But they didn't intend to shove him to the ground.

    Why is this important? Because facts are important. They haven't resigned because "two cops who were suspended for shoving a 75-year-old man to the ground and denying him medical aid", but because tow cope where suspended for shoving a 75 year old who then slipped and hurt himself.

  18. #13643
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by catbarf View Post
    'A few bad apples'

    All 57 members of riot team step down in support of two cops who were suspended for shoving a 75-year-old man to the ground and denying him medical aid as blood poured out of his ears.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...nd/3153626001/
    I think they called for an ambulance, but yes, shoving down an elderly person who was, from the looks of it, bringing them a police helmet he found is completely unnecessary and really revealing of their character. Seen a lot of stuff like that over the past days -- police spitting on protesters, beating and macing unarmed protesters for speaking up (or for seemingly no reason at all), shooting a kid in the head and just leaving him lying there... There's a lot of these kinds of incidents people have been trying to gather that were captured on camera: https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/st...51520055459847

  19. #13644
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    "Are you now or have you ever been a member of an antifascist organisation?":
    https://twitter.com/Jose_Pagliery/st...69855762976770

    Defense lawyer source: protestors arrested by NYPD are being pulled aside by FBI at precincts & asked about anti-fascist sentiments or connections to antifa.

  20. #13645
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    "Are you now or have you ever been a member of an antifascist organisation?":
    "We are citizens of the United States, which fought Germany in WWII, so yes."

  21. #13646
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    The whole ANTIFA hunt is going to end up exactly the same way everything plays out surrounding Trump's White House and DoJ. There will be much ado and fervor, endless talk of grand discoveries that have to be seen to be believed, which will blow everything open, and expose the very roots of the Deep State.

    ...and then nothing will come about. They'll congratulate themselves for a job well done, talk about how they saved America yet again, and move on to the next great controversy.

  22. #13647
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    The whole ANTIFA hunt is going to end up exactly the same way everything plays out surrounding Trump's White House and DoJ. There will be much ado and fervor, endless talk of grand discoveries that have to be seen to be believed, which will blow everything open, and expose the very roots of the Deep State.

    ...and then nothing will come about. They'll congratulate themselves for a job well done, talk about how they saved America yet again, and move on to the next great controversy.
    It's how actual representative democracy works

  23. #13648
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Relax people! Donald assures us the George Floyd is looking down and smiling on Trump's America...

    Health Warning, do not click this link or the video within one hour of eating or drinking.

    https://business.financialpost.com/n...k-unemployment

    “Hopefully, George is looking down right now and saying there’s a great thing happening for our country,” Trump said in remarks at the White House on Friday. “It’s a great day for him, it’s a great day for everybody.”

  24. #13649
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    He redefines the word "phony" bringing it to new highs (lows).

  25. #13650
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    He's incredible really. It's really beyond satire, but a good satirist would write better jokes.

    I'm amazed and fascinated. How can this be the result of democracy unless its happening in an idiot nation?

    I've a theory that the underlying problem with the USA is that it was built essentially from the ground up far too recently. The young nation has encountered advanced technology too early in it's life cycle and that has resulted in a baseline that just hadn't settled.

    You can see examples of instability in every part of society, but the crazy thing is it's all intertwined with all the really good ideas that have made the USA so successful.

    What a case study!

    PS. Trump will win a second term. No doubt. 4 more years of lols

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