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View Poll Results: How long will Trump be President?

Voters
144. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1 Term (4 Years)

    26 18.06%
  • 2 Terms (8 Years)

    51 35.42%
  • 1st Term Impeachment/Assassination

    50 34.72%
  • 2nd Term Impeachment/Assassination

    4 2.78%
  • I don't know what's going on!

    13 9.03%

Thread: ✮✮✮ !Trump Dump! ✮✮✮

  1. #13726
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by nbohr1more View Post
    Read wikileaks. How government "really works" is documented there:

    (Vault 7 release)

    https://our.wikileaks.org/images/1/13/CIA-org-chart.png
    Damn Russia is a subdivision of the CIA? Sick.

  2. #13727
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by nbohr1more View Post
    Read wikileaks. How government "really works" is documented there:

    (Vault 7 release)

    https://our.wikileaks.org/images/1/13/CIA-org-chart.png
    That's funny, because I don't need Wikileaks to know how the organization is structured. I also notice by the concurrent presence of the DDI and DO that this is 2015 or newer (if one of these offices is the one running the media, who did it before five years ago?), and it's completely missing the breakdown of any directorate other than the DDI, which is only painted in broad strokes. And, of course, there's nothing here beyond (purported) office names.

    It's also extra funny that it only IDs the OSE and CCI under DDI, because the existence of the IT branch led by Doug Wolfe as the third office under the DDI is publicly acknowledged, as are the other second-order offices under other directorates.

    So uh, is the takeaway from this that TLAs are scary and Wikileaks doesn't know how to use Google? Where's the cabal secretly running global media?
    Last edited by catbarf; 18th Jun 2020 at 17:12.

  3. #13728
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    *naxt-page*next-page*next-page* ... *sigh*

    Wake me when discussion on this inane shit is over and we are back at something pertaining to reality. Or is there really nothing insane going on in the real Trump front to talk about?

  4. #13729
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Be careful what you wish for.

    I mean just today, or at least what was reported today, we learned that he told President Xi that building concentration camps for Muslims was exactly the right thing to do, he asked Xi to buy more US agricultural products to help his personal reelection bid in return for tariff breaks, and he told Xi that "a lot of people" think the Presidential term limits shouldn't apply to him (Xi very slyly told Trump he thinks he should be president for another 6 years), he's still saying "Chinese flu", Bolton said he tried to get Trump to drop his illegal Ukraine quid pro quo shenanigans at least 10 times, and Trump refused every time, he said that he couldn't watch the George Floyd murder because 8 minutes is just too long (he also insisted he shouldn't have resisted the police like that), he said cornavirus testing is overrated and makes the US look bad and he told the Wall Street Journal that people wearing masks is a signal of direct opposition to him, a Trump post was taken down by Facebook for "organized hate" using a neo-nazi icon (there were also 88 ads with a 14 word slogan, which is unambiguous neo-nazi numerology) just after Zuck said he wouldn't be censoring Trump posts, and a Tweet of his was labeled as "manipulated media", Trump's DOJ is suing to stop the publication of Bolton's book with the brilliant argument that everything written in it is classified (which assumes it's true; he's not even bothering to argue that it's false. Oh and this quote: "He’s a hardliner, but I call him a stupid liner"), the EPA is ending the regulation of perchlorate in drinking water (linked to infant brain damage), Biden is leading Trump by an average of 9 points across the country, particularly in swing states that Trump has to win, he said that he made Juneteenth famous, nobody even knew what it was, and he asked some assistant if she knew what it was, and she said the White House has issued a statement the last 3 years for it, which greatly surprised him, the fourth senior official to handle the Russia portfolio at the White House in three years is leaving his position, the highest ranked African American official at the State Department is resigning in protest, Trump signed in 200~300 conservative judges many of them sensationally unqualified (it's a whole other deep well of stories about some of the numbnuts becoming federal judges now), there's more ad nauseum....

    And that was just what was reported today, Juneteenth. And every day is like that. Tomorrow is going to be Trump's stupid hate rally in Tulsa, and there will be another flood of this crap tomorrow.

  5. #13730
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    One thing I find fascinating is the ability of this administration to have multiple major scandals every day that in any other administration would have lasted for months on end.

    Speaking of which, in the ongoing series of The Best People:

    https://www.propublica.org/article/t...for-his-family

    Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin have become the public faces of the $3 trillion federal coronavirus bailout. Behind the scenes, however, the Treasury’s responsibilities have fallen largely to the 42-year-old deputy secretary, Justin Muzinich.

    A major beneficiary of that bailout so far: Muzinich & Co., the asset manager founded by his father where Justin served as president before joining the administration. He reported owning a stake worth at least $60 million when he entered government in 2017.

    Today, Muzinich retains financial ties to the firm through an opaque transaction in which he transferred his shares in the privately held company to his father. Ethics experts say the arrangement is troubling because his father received the shares for no money up front, and it appears possible that Muzinich can simply get his stake back after leaving government.
    [...]

  6. #13731
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Are you guys still surprised about what Trump does and says ?
    Didn't you see it all coming in 2016 ?

    All you need to know about Trump, to be able to predict him:
    1) he's dumb.
    2) he's a sales guy. he'll say or do anything to get the deal made.
    3) he's a tv-host. ratings are more important than reality.
    4) he's a con-man. if you get away without being caught, you're not breaking the law. (aka fuck the law).
    5) he's a mobster. the only thing that matters regarding people is whether they are loyal to him.

    With these simple 5 facts you can explain anything he's done or said.
    You can predict a lot too, but not everything. Because he's so dumb that he can't always follow his own rules.

  7. #13732
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    And that was just what was reported today, Juneteenth. And every day is like that. Tomorrow is going to be Trump's stupid hate rally in Tulsa, and there will be another flood of this crap tomorrow.
    Honestly, it's like we're living in a Paul Verhoeven movie, where everything's so over the top and gory, it's hard to take it as anything but satire.

  8. #13733
    Terrifying: https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/progr...l-war/12365280

    In the early 1990s, when Bill Clinton was in the White House and the United States looked unshakeable, the administration appointed Jack Goldstone to study how states fail. They meant other states; not the US. Few expected that his model would later predict their country's collapse.

    In an unpublished paper submitted for peer review, Professor Goldstone, who is a sociologist, and Peter Turchin, an expert on the mathematical modelling of historical societies, have concluded that the US is "headed for another civil war".

    The conditions for civil violence, they say, are the worst since the 19th century — in particular the years leading up to the start of the American Civil War in 1861.

    The reason for this are trends that began in the 1980s, "with regard to inequality, selfish elites, and polarisation that have crippled the ability of the US government to mount an effective response to the pandemic disease," they write.

    This has also "hampered our ability to deliver an inclusive economic relief policy, and exacerbated the tensions over racial injustice."

    "Is the US headed for another civil war? In a word, yes."

    Professor Goldstone is a leading authority on the study of revolutions and long-term social change at George Mason University. The model developed by him and Peter Turchin tracks such data as the ratio of median workers' wages to GDP per capita, life expectancy, average heights, and the number of new millionaires. It also measures political polarisation or the degree of overlap between the parties.

    Applied to US history, it 'predicts' the 1861 Civil War and the unrest of the 1930s — a time of Jim Crow segregation, Gilded Age inequality, and fascism.

    Ten years ago, Professor Turchin pointed his model towards the future, and made an uncannily accurate prediction. Just like in the 1850s, crisis indicators were rising, he wrote in the journal Nature. They could be a reliable indicator of looming instability and "look set to peak in the years around 2020," he wrote.

  9. #13734
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Are you guys still surprised about what Trump does and says ?
    It's not that I am surprised by Trump himself but by the ability and willingness of his enablers hold their noses and look the other way, even to rationalise his demented and even criminal behaviours, to the public.

    This and what Pyrian is about to say...
    Last edited by Nicker; 19th Jun 2020 at 16:10.

  10. #13735
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    The fact that Trump's behavior is long since far from being in any way surprising, in no way implies that the drumbeat of wrong doesn't need to be pointed out, documented, resisted, and deplored. He's not some rando on the internet. Okay, I mean, he's not just some rando on the internet, he's also the president of the United States and his feet should be held to the fire constantly by Congress, the Inspectors General, the news media, and the voting public.

  11. #13736
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    Are you guys still surprised about what Trump does and says ?
    Didn't you see it all coming in 2016 ?
    I think I posted this earlier. I saw the gist of it all the way back in 2001. (I was probably too young to notice at the time, but people following the news could have predicted it already in 1989 with the Central Park Five NYTimes ad he took out that he's still never apologized for.)

    But the reason why I feel like I have a special understanding of him now is that now I've had a partner with Borderline Personality Disorder, which is the mirror image of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. To know one is to know the other pretty well. People think they understand it -- oh he's always thinking about himself and sure does say a lot of bullsiht -- but unless you've read like 8 books and 700 articles and Quora and blog posts on it, you really don't understand anything, just because it really is impossible to understand without researching it.

    To get a start at it, you have to imagine your brain not being able control the release of hormones involved in all the classic ego defense mechanisms. They're just left gushing at all times. So, e.g., it's not like intentional lying. It's like he's in total panic mode 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, just trying to survive for the next 5 minutes without being caught as a fraud, and not showing the slightest hint of weakness or cracks, because he's always on just on the precipice of a suicidal-level breakdown he has to numb at every moment. He'll say literally anything. Then apply that to basically every category of human behavior a person goes through in a day. He has to signal strength and domination to quiet the demons minute by minute by excruciating minute. You don't understand it until you live with one of these kinds of people. They'll never be free of it, not even for a second. Every volitional action that passes through their midbrain is coursing through irreparably flawed wiring.

  12. #13737
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Trump has no mental illness.
    He's just a self-obsessed lying cunt.

  13. #13738
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    Trump has no mental illness.
    He's just a self-obsessed lying cunt.
    Still a "Personality disorder" is not a mental illness.
    It's clearly a classic narcisistic "unsolved development" person by the book.
    A malignant manchild with heavy histrionic features.

    They're a clusterfuck of empty pride and complete incompetence (in every field, approval-searching apart). No illness, but no trust in those guys must be put by anyone.
    Last edited by lowenz; 20th Jun 2020 at 05:58.

  14. #13739
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    But the reason why I feel like I have a special understanding of him now is that now I've had a partner with Borderline Personality Disorder, which is the mirror image of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. To know one is to know the other pretty well. People think they understand it -- oh he's always thinking about himself and sure does say a lot of bullsiht -- but unless you've read like 8 books and 700 articles and Quora and blog posts on it, you really don't understand anything, just because it really is impossible to understand without researching it.
    And don't forget the histrionic part with the related attention/approval seeking.

  15. #13740
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    Trump has no mental illness.
    He's just a self-obsessed lying cunt.
    I can't find the response article to that just now, but other psychologists have written that the person writing that article is not using evidence-based reasoning. There is 1000s of hours of video footage documenting Trump's profile and there's mountains of evidence around NPD as a profile.

    NPD is more complicated than BPD as a diagnosis, but just saying he's self-obsessed and lies doesn't really capture some fundamental features. There are narcissist people, and then there are people who build a facade self and don't have their own personality or a self-identity underneath it, which is at an entirely different level of scale as a profile.

    Anyway, if one doesn't want to call it a mental illness, I don't care all that much about the semantics of it. It's definitely a psychological profile. The best thing to do is read lots of clinical studies, and read around the posts on something like Welcome to Oz. There are so many textbook features that it's clearly not just "cunt behavior" that coincidentally looks alike. It's a profile. The gaslighting, the lovebombing and idealization-devaluation-discard cycle, the memory problems, the inability to understand criticism (not talking about rejecting it; they can't literally parse the sentences as criticism), NPD breakdown, the inability to conceive another perspective (not just lacking empathy, but again they can't parse sentences that require them to see other people's perspective)... Whether it's brain rewiring or its ossified patterns set in from childhood might be the big debate for the DSM people, but it isn't the major issue for managing it as a partner or employee or as a country. What matters is how the profile operates, and its structural nature. It's not something he can just "turn off" one day like somebody that's just randomly decides to be a jerk one day.

    Like just to take one example, make a time plot of when he hires people and when he fires them, and the words he use in Tweets about certain staff as a function of time, and you'll see it fall into patterns time after time. That's not somebody being a jerk at random times, where you'd expect the rhetoric to be randomly plotted as a function of time; that speaks to structural issues.
    Last edited by demagogue; 20th Jun 2020 at 07:38.

  16. #13741
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    you'll see it fall into patterns
    Beware, Sulphur alter!

    Show us your degree in patternology of GTFO/STFU!

  17. #13742
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    You don't have to call it patterns if you don't like the word.

    I did get a degree in cognitive science.

    Volitional behavior is a strange beast even in normal situations; but it's positively wild when it comes to personality disorders.
    It confuses everybody, and NPD is the most confusing and controversial of them all.
    So I'm fine with dropping any debate about what category of thing people should call it.

    If you're dealing with a person that displays NPD features, you still need to know what lovebombing, flying monkey army, fleas, gaslighting, idealization cycles, etc, mean in their context because you're going to run into those things. Not a question of if but when. That's the hill I'd rather fight on, the things that you should bet on if you're going to be playing with them for money. To use perhaps a better analogy, many of the profile features in criminology aren't mental illnesses either, but they still tell you the motivations of the guy and where you can bet he'll strike next.

  18. #13743
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    Dont discount Tony's link this time, triple j is an australian radio station, and its current affairs program "the hack" has some pretty good journos working for it.

  19. #13744
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    So I'm fine with dropping any debate about what category of thing people should call it.
    Sorry, I didn't want to yank your chain. Or disagree just to disagree.
    I have no clue about psychology.

    For me, the problem with mental illness, or with personality disorders, is that they can be used as an excuse. "He cant' help himself, he's ill". "You can't blame him, it's his brain, his hormones that cause this". I don't accept those excuses when we talk about Trump. He's a grown man. He's had a full life to think over who he is, how he acts, what he has done. If we can't blame him for things in the past, because he was ill or had some syndrome, we should at least be allowed to blame him for not being sorry later. We should be allowed to blame him for not even trying to be a better human being.
    Last edited by Gryzemuis; 20th Jun 2020 at 11:24.

  20. #13745
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    mental illness is real, but someone with a mental illness cant still be an asshole. And also what does the term "grown man" really mean? You've reached a certain age? Fired a gun in anger? Had sex? Written out your own tax return? Its a meaningless term.

  21. #13746
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2010
    It think Gryzemuis is the most correct here.

    Trump is a Blackmailer and a Ferengi



    +



    =




    We wouldn't be dealing with him if he didn't have the goods on so many powerful people.

    The cure for Trump is not "resist Trump", the cure is to prosecute those who he has blackmail against so he is powerless.

  22. #13747
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    "A grown man" is not a legal term. It's just my way of saying "someone who should be smart and wise enough to take responsibility for what he says and does". And Trump doesn't seem to do that. Still doesn't seem to do that, even now that he is President.

  23. #13748
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by nbohr1more View Post
    It think Gryzemuis is the most correct here.
    Niels agrees with me ?
    I take back everything I've said this month. I was obviously wrong. My apologies.

  24. #13749
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Reading that article it does seem that the author is ignoring the diagnosis he helped to write, especially the malignant and criminal symptoms, which Trump exhibits in spades. Frances reframes Trump's behaviour to fit his editorial stance, and supports that with an emotional appeal not to lump the mentally ill in with the deliberate and calculated actions of Trump. It's pretty sloppy.

    While intellectual impairment is a feature of some mental illnesses it is not a prerequisite for all of them. The malignant narcissists can still calculate very adeptly but they do so through damaged emotional and social filters. But what choice to behave otherwise do they truly have? (I don't know, myself, but I suspect it is very little to none.) To what degree they can control or alter their behaviour seems like the more important diagnostic question.

    The legal defense of diminished responsibility does not excuse the crime it asks what sort of sanction is appropriate.

    To me the real perpetrators of the Trump crime spree are his enablers, especially the GOP, who saw a deeply damaged and dangerous man and thought, yes, we can make him work for us. Rather than divert him to a place where he could do no harm, they promoted him to an environment guaranteed to amplify and exacerbate his symptoms. Trump is a crack addict in an all-you-can-snort cocaine warehouse. You cannot separate his individual responsibility from those who use him.

  25. #13750
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    I will tangentially note that while I have lowenz on ignore, it doesn't stop me from seeing his posts when I'm not logged in, and his annoyance boner for me is adorable while he still completely misunderstands what I actually raked him over. Feel free to disregard that when he brings it up, dema; there's no signal there.

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