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View Poll Results: How long will Trump be President?

Voters
144. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1 Term (4 Years)

    26 18.06%
  • 2 Terms (8 Years)

    51 35.42%
  • 1st Term Impeachment/Assassination

    50 34.72%
  • 2nd Term Impeachment/Assassination

    4 2.78%
  • I don't know what's going on!

    13 9.03%

Thread: ✮✮✮ !Trump Dump! ✮✮✮

  1. #13826

  2. #13827

  3. #13828


    Posted by someone from my Officer’s Course

  4. #13829
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    All aboard the crazy train. Trump Commutes Roger Stone's prison sentence.

    The White House said in a statement: "Roger Stone is a victim of the Russia Hoax that the Left and its allies in the media perpetuated for years in an attempt to undermine the Trump Presidency."

  5. #13830
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Mueller's open letter about the whole affair:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...er-stone-oped/

    Robert S. Mueller III served as special counsel for the Justice Department from 2017 to 2019.

    The work of the special counsel’s office — its report, indictments, guilty pleas and convictions — should speak for itself. But I feel compelled to respond both to broad claims that our investigation was illegitimate and our motives were improper, and to specific claims that Roger Stone was a victim of our office. The Russia investigation was of paramount importance. Stone was prosecuted and convicted because he committed federal crimes. He remains a convicted felon, and rightly so.

    Russia’s actions were a threat to America’s democracy. It was critical that they be investigated and understood. By late 2016, the FBI had evidence that the Russians had signaled to a Trump campaign adviser that they could assist the campaign through the anonymous release of information damaging to the Democratic candidate. And the FBI knew that the Russians had done just that: Beginning in July 2016, WikiLeaks released emails stolen by Russian military intelligence officers from the Clinton campaign. Other online personas using false names — fronts for Russian military intelligence — also released Clinton campaign emails.

    Following FBI Director James B. Comey’s termination in May 2017, the acting attorney general named me as special counsel and directed the special counsel’s office to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. The order specified lines of investigation for us to pursue, including any links or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the Trump campaign. One of our cases involved Stone, an official on the campaign until mid-2015 and a supporter of the campaign throughout 2016. Stone became a central figure in our investigation for two key reasons: He communicated in 2016 with individuals known to us to be Russian intelligence officers, and he claimed advance knowledge of WikiLeaks’ release of emails stolen by those Russian intelligence officers.

    We now have a detailed picture of Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential election. The special counsel’s office identified two principal operations directed at our election: hacking and dumping Clinton campaign emails, and an online social media campaign to disparage the Democratic candidate. We also identified numerous links between the Russian government and Trump campaign personnel — Stone among them. We did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired with the Russian government in its activities. The investigation did, however, establish that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome. It also established that the campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts.

    Uncovering and tracing Russian outreach and interference activities was a complex task. The investigation to understand these activities took two years and substantial effort. Based on our work, eight individuals pleaded guilty or were convicted at trial, and more than two dozen Russian individuals and entities, including senior Russian intelligence officers, were charged with federal crimes.

    Congress also investigated and sought information from Stone. A jury later determined he lied repeatedly to members of Congress. He lied about the identity of his intermediary to WikiLeaks. He lied about the existence of written communications with his intermediary. He lied by denying he had communicated with the Trump campaign about the timing of WikiLeaks’ releases. He in fact updated senior campaign officials repeatedly about WikiLeaks. And he tampered with a witness, imploring him to stonewall Congress.

    The jury ultimately convicted Stone of obstruction of a congressional investigation, five counts of making false statements to Congress and tampering with a witness. Because his sentence has been commuted, he will not go to prison. But his conviction stands.

    Russian efforts to interfere in our political system, and the essential question of whether those efforts involved the Trump campaign, required investigation. In that investigation, it was critical for us (and, before us, the FBI) to obtain full and accurate information. Likewise, it was critical for Congress to obtain accurate information from its witnesses. When a subject lies to investigators, it strikes at the core of the government’s efforts to find the truth and hold wrongdoers accountable. It may ultimately impede those efforts.

    We made every decision in Stone’s case, as in all our cases, based solely on the facts and the law and in accordance with the rule of law. The women and men who conducted these investigations and prosecutions acted with the highest integrity. Claims to the contrary are false.

  6. #13831
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    If anyone had read the Mueller report, they'd know how guilty as sin Stone and Trump both were for obstruction.
    Most of the same fact patterns that convicted Stone apply to Trump the second his term is over.

    But then we have to go through all of this circus all over again, where people will think prosecuting Trump is coming out of the blue and is nothing more than political grandstanding.

    In other news, in my homes state of Texas, Biden has a stable and climbing 5% lead over Turmp for the 2020 election. Texas was already turning purple (red=republican, blue=democrat) over the last election and was projected to turn blue in the mid- to late-2020s just for demographic reasons (increasing Latin population, migration from the north, and it's a young state). It remains to be seen, if Texas votes blue in 2020, if that applies only to this one crazy election (it looks like the whole country is going to have a blue tide like LBJ in 1964 after JFK had just been killed), or if it represents something more sustainable. But if it ends up being durable, that's going to force some serious social-political change by itself. The thing to know is that Texas is 38 electoral votes by itself. You can't ... just mathematically, there's no way the GOP is making up 38 electoral votes from any combination of other states that have the potential to vote red if it loses Texas. If the GOP doesn't fundamentally change, it could be booted out of the presidency and congressional majority for a generation at least.

    So I think that more than anything is going to force the GOP to do some serious soul searching and structural reform, which sounds like a good thing. As much as I agree that the GOP has left the building as a rational political party and deserves all the losses it has coming to it, it's not good for any political system to have only one rational and viable party that can speak for everyone; every country should have at least two viable parties (or more!), and even for a party in the deserved minority opposition, the country is better off if it still acts like a viable, rational party. Well, I hope this forces the GOP to grow up and become an adult party again. There are other alternatives, but history hasn't been kind to them.

  7. #13832
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Basically everything you just said about the Republican party was said after the 2008 and 2012 elections, but instead they went further into crazy town and then won 2016.

  8. #13833
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    If the GOP doesn't fundamentally change, it could be booted out of the presidency and congressional majority for a generation at least.
    They've already lost the popular vote in all but one presidential election since 1992. Most of their platform (civil rights, gay rights, abortion rights, etc) has had less than 50% support during that time too. Yet they've been able to cling to power through much of that time somehow.

  9. #13834
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    In other news, in my homes state of Texas, Biden has a stable and climbing 5% lead over Turmp for the 2020 election.
    That is just a snapshot in time. I realise it might not seem that way from the perspective of the US where the presidential election season is now 4 years long for incumbents, but the election is still a long time away.

  10. #13835
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    All the major cities in Texas already went blue in the 2018 midterms, and that was well before the insanity of 2020 was little more than just a sparkle in Donald's evil eye and started losing him the senior vote. I know it's trendy to say somethings never change, but sometimes they do.

    Also note that there was a blue wave in favor of Ann Richards for governor in 1990 when her GOP opponent Clayton Williams went full cray-cray in very similar ways to Trump. That undercurrent has always been there.

    Of course you have to add the disclaimer: assuming the trend continues as it is and barring unforeseen circumstances. But the trend has been stable and consistently growing for a few weeks now, so it's not like it's just a statistical fluke. Re: Jason's point, my point is that Texas is special because 38 electoral votes changes the equation so fundamentally that it's not even a viable question of whether they can squeeze out a Florida or a Wisconsin with their dodgy gerrymandering voodoo. The whole game changes for a realignment that massive.
    Last edited by demagogue; 13th Jul 2020 at 07:17.

  11. #13836
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Just to add a little bit more on the insanity:


  12. #13837
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    All the major cities in Texas already went blue in the 2018 midterms, and that was well before the insanity of 2020 was little more than just a sparkle in Donald's evil eye and started losing him the senior vote. I know it's trendy to say somethings never change, but sometimes they do.

    Also note that there was a blue wave in favor of Ann Richards for governor in 1990 when her GOP opponent Clayton Williams went full cray-cray in very similar ways to Trump. That undercurrent has always been there.

    Of course you have to add the disclaimer: assuming the trend continues as it is and barring unforeseen circumstances. But the trend has been stable and consistently growing for a few weeks now, so it's not like it's just a statistical fluke. Re: Jason's point, my point is that Texas is special because 38 electoral votes changes the equation so fundamentally that it's not even a viable question of whether they can squeeze out a Florida or a Wisconsin with their dodgy gerrymandering voodoo. The whole game changes for a realignment that massive.
    Polls are one thing. Turnout is another.

    Assuming waves of COVID-19 will still be washing over the country on election day, turnout at the polls may be low. And Republican controlled states will fight to restrict mail-in voting. Texas Democrats are fighting in the courts to relax absentee voting criteria. They got a favorable ruling from a District Judge, which was stayed by the Appellate Court and SCOTUS. It looks rather improbable they will win.

    So if it comes down to who is willing to show up at the polls, Trump has an advantage for a few reasons. His potential voters are less likely to worry about gathering in a public place during the pandemic. Democrats traditionally rely more on "boots on the ground" turnout efforts, which I assume will be harder to organize in a pandemic. And there is a dramatic difference in voter enthusiasm. The effect of enthusiasm is well debated, but turnout for Hillary in 2016 was 5M less than turnout for Obama in 2008, so I think there is something to it.

  13. #13838
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    I bet much of the Democratic turnout will be driven by Lord Dampnut also, though.

  14. #13839
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    I have no idea how much of a factor that will be in driving people to the polls on election day. I hope it's big, but I've never seen politics like this before. That, and uncertainty about the pandemic's effect makes this an entirely unpredictable election.

    My nightmare is that it will be a contested result that comes down to counting absentee ballots and recounts in multiple states.

  15. #13840
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2019
    Location: Restaurant at end of universe

    cheaters

    The biggest problem in the states is the electoral college set up by the republicans. Democrats get popular vote and Republicans win under electoral college because of redistricting.

    Here is the Georgia voting problem from CBS reporting. I forget where i seen the more in depth video but there was a report of the republican in charge of voting in the state using Covid-19 to suppress the vote of Democrats. He suppressed the vote by removing places to vote in the poor democrat areas but not rich republican voting places. Saying he closed those because of Covid-19 problems. Poor people had to stand in line for up to 8 hours to vote where rich republicans could just walk in/ walk out of voting in minutes. Look for more of this in the presidential vote.


  16. #13841
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    Redistricting/gerrymandering doesn't affect the electoral college results, mostly just the U.S. House and state legislature races.

    But yeah, Republican efforts to suppress turnout are getting bolder and more blatant. They are pursuing a strategy that doesn't require winning the national popular vote or winning over independent voters. It's dirty, ugly, and increasingly undemocratic. And to think I was once a party member...

  17. #13842
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    The GOP has no choice but to fight the bad fight to the bitter end. Stealing the next election is the only hope they have of surviving as a party and the only hope that many of them have of escaping investigation and prosecution.

    Trapped animals are dangerous.

  18. #13843
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2010
    Pretty much admitting that the 2018 midterms were a CIA organized election:

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazi...s-trump-351513

    She helped win Congress for the Democrats in 2018.
    A veteran CIA analyst before coming to Congress in the Democratic wave of 2018...

  19. #13844
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: 1, Rotation: 0
    Maybe go a little easy on the bong now.

  20. #13845
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Science should NOT get in the way of sending kids back to school. So says Kayleigh McEnany.




    Quote Originally Posted by hopper View Post
    Maybe go a little easy on the bong now.
    I disagree. I think he should hit it a lot harder.

  21. #13846
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: Third planet from the Sun
    I dont understand from the beginning he said i am going to be an asshole. He got chosen.
    At least he paid himself for his campaign.
    Btw if You believe in politicians being honest persons who care about country and people.
    WAKE THE FUCK UP !! it is about time.
    Democracy works only without capitalism and with well educated society.

  22. #13847
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    It's not just the fact that Trump is corrupt, it is the scale and savagery of his corruption. While plenty of politicians will take more then their share, Trump is destroying the sources of that wealth. Trump will torch the orchard so he can have a baked apple.

    BTW. Trump didn't pay for his campaign and while he donates his salary to the country, he reaps many times more in illegal, thieving scams and schemes. That doesn't include the destruction of the Constitution, the fomentation of civil war and selling the USA out to Russia.

    So if I may borrow a phrase... WAKE THE FUCK UP!

  23. #13848
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: Third planet from the Sun
    i dont see USA as lesser evil than Russia. At lest Russia dont pretend to be good.
    Russia have fought less wars than USA. / Modern era / Less military bases across all the world.
    As for the terrorist for me USA is greatest of them all. I would say Americans are not so bad, they will attack you, take whatever resource valuable to them you have and then apologize.
    NSA CIA Most corrupt agencies in the world see movie "A good American".
    As to the Presidents in USA the are just muppets for Wall Street.
    As Vidal Gore said. If you get 20 million USD for campaign You got to give it back at some point.
    As to Democracy you have choice between A and B. Ask yourself question who gave you this choice?
    Trump is capitalist what do you expect of him ? It is all about money baby.
    As to constitution it was raped many yeas ago so nothing left to defend it is just piece of paper now without any value. Just like paper currency without equivalent in gold /Gold standard /

  24. #13849

  25. #13850

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