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View Poll Results: How long will Trump be President?

Voters
159. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1 Term (4 Years)

    30 18.87%
  • 2 Terms (8 Years)

    54 33.96%
  • 1st Term Impeachment/Assassination

    51 32.08%
  • 2nd Term Impeachment/Assassination

    5 3.14%
  • I don't know what's going on!

    19 11.95%
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Results 16,051 to 16,069 of 16069

Thread: ✮✮✮ !Trump Dumped! ✮✮✮

  1. #16051
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    I tend to share Kolya's bias against playing to emotions, but don't have time to get into it now. I can recognize it's often a necessary part of politics. It's just playing with fire.
    Is there a particular part of Amanda Gorman's poem you object to or is it just the general idea of having an idealistic vision about the purpose of your country that rubs you the wrong way?

    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    We can also start taking bets on what criminal charges may finally be brought against Trump.
    First of all there's the matter of even listing which ones are even in the cards.
    The ones that come to mind for me are:
    (1) Obstruction of justice - ordering witnesses to lie, dangling pardons for lies, etc.;
    (2) Bribery - taking money for presidential decisions, the same thing Blagovitch was convicted for;
    (3) Incitement to insurrection - I already mentioned that I think that's a longshot because of the "intent" problem;
    (4) Financial crimes, e.g., to do with the Deutsch Bank loans & dealings with the Russian oligarchs.
    (5) The rape & sexual assault claims, not least with 2+ minors, Katie Johnson & Maria P.

    Feel free to add to the list!
    Campaign finance violations (hush money), real-estate fraud (inflating the value of his property, etc), insurance fraud, tax fraud (exorbitant consulting fees to his children, etc), profiting from his office (emoluments clauses), cheating Mary Trump out of her inheritance, not paying his lawyers when all is said and done.

  2. #16052
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Is there a particular part of Amanda Gorman's poem you object to or is it just the general idea of having an idealistic vision about the purpose of your country that rubs you the wrong way?



    Campaign finance violations (hush money), real-estate fraud (inflating the value of his property, etc), insurance fraud, tax fraud (exorbitant consulting fees to his children, etc), profiting from his office (emoluments clauses), cheating Mary Trump out of her inheritance, not paying his lawyers when all is said and done.
    A real antistate hero!
    Oh wait, no, a criminal jerk.

  3. #16053
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Is there a particular part of Amanda Gorman's poem you object to or is it just the general idea of having an idealistic vision about the purpose of your country that rubs you the wrong way?
    1. I was posting that out of context. I was just talking about appeals to emotion generally because the convo was going in that direction & it's an old saw for me. Nothing to do with that poem. (Also I was talking about riling people up to the degree they go off the rails, which is the opposite of what that poem was trying to do.)

    2. As a matter of cold political calculation, which is what I was just saying is often when emotion can have a positive use, I favored the poem because it's going to help galvanize young people and make them feel part of & engaged in this political moment, as part of a long term strategy keeping them engaged in the right way.

    3. I literally just gave a long diatribe on an idealistic vision about the purpose of my country that's arguably in the direction of that poem (well I was going with identity, but potatoes potatoes), so it can't be that.

    4. I wrote a longish post in some FB comment about that poem. To boil it down, I thought it was a fine poem but it didn't fit this moment in history. Her whole aura shouted morning in America, which is great and all, but if you look, e.g., at the colors people were wearing, she was bright yellow, but the other major women were dark purples, burgundies, and blues.

    I thought that the poem that would have fit this moment better would have been more world-weary, though not cynical, coming from someone who's lived what the poem speaks of, who has the emotional scars of battle long fought, who can express the infinite relief that we've made it this far, but we still have so far to go, that brings a gravitas to this time & place.

    And I was thinking specifically of the poem Maya Angelou read at the 1993 inauguration. The new one didn't speak to me at all and IMO seemed unobservant of the times we're in. But I recognize why my opinion doesn't matter so much to what this poem was meant to serve here, and I can even agree with that part. Edit: I mean in the sense that if I were on the Biden team I would have also voted for that poem even not liking it myself. Politics is also about mythology and calculated myopia.
    Last edited by demagogue; 22nd Jan 2021 at 09:06.

  4. #16054
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    I think you guys are talking past each other.

    Yes, it's better to deliver just the dry logic and have everything be based off of that (like, obviously), but people's emotions aren't going away, so it's obtuse to just pretend they aren't part of the landscape and to not engage with that.

  5. #16055
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    As far as the symbolism of the inaugural poem recital is concerned, for me it was the opposite -- the bright colours and overall hopeful tone felt refreshing rather than inappropriate for the moment, a glimpse of looking forward to the future and a nice contrast amid the sea of grey and soberness. World-weariness is fine for the old, but optimism suits the young.

    I think Democrats did pretty well with both the inauguration and their virtual convention, especially if you compare it with the hysterical tone of Republican convention and Lord Dampnut leaving to the tune of YMCA.

  6. #16056
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: In my room
    Quote Originally Posted by faetal View Post
    I think you guys are talking past each other.

    Yes, it's better to deliver just the dry logic and have everything be based off of that (like, obviously), but people's emotions aren't going away, so it's obtuse to just pretend they aren't part of the landscape and to not engage with that.
    It's obviously a balance and what I tried to point out is that the US are very far down the emotional scale from my point of view. Always have been and doesn't seem to get better, despite the complete reality-disconnect it has gotten to. The fuss about the flag, the pledge of allegiance, the general ignorance of the rest of the world, it's languages ideas and knowledge - this nationalism is deeply emotional and easy to manipulate. And despite your best intentions to use it for good, it is still very dangerous.
    Because there is no such thing as good nationalism. As soon as you make the nation center point of whatever ideals and achievements you have, you're shifting their importance to an in-group of people (that's very heterogeneous and that you only belong to by random chance) with all the foreseeable results for the out-group. The question should be less about what it means to be an "American" and more about what has worked in the past and what is a good ideal to work towards to, regardless of the nation.
    This is not technocracy. National identity won't vanish. But it doesn't need constant encouragement either.

  7. #16057
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    I don't disagree, but if the side using emotion is gaining ground, and the other side are not convcinced that straight up logic / facts will turn things around, what to do?
    Moral high ground is great, but not if it gives ground to white supremacists and their enablers.

  8. #16058
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: melon labneh
    I'm not sure the real issue is with emotion, but exceptionalism and identity as a claim (rather than as a statement of fact) are cancerous illusions that are too profound in the American way of thinking to be uprooted. More so as these are being exported as standard and widely acclaimed in the rest of the world. Biden's inauguration speech made me incredibly bitter.

  9. #16059
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Briareos H View Post
    I'm not sure the real issue is with emotion, but exceptionalism and identity as a claim (rather than as a statement of fact) are cancerous illusions that are too profound in the American way of thinking to be uprooted. More so as these are being exported as standard and widely acclaimed in the rest of the world. Biden's inauguration speech made me incredibly bitter.
    Exactly.

    But about the "emotions" aspect: blind rationalism is stupid cause people are not part of some theorem to prove each to another. There's no such thing as "hard facts" in human mind and the REAL delusion it's to think that they are.

  10. #16060
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror

  11. #16061
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2019
    Location: Restaurant at end of universe

    antifa.com question ?

    Why does the Biden Whitehouse website show up when antifa.com is typed into the browser (and hit enter)


    Edit: I found this answer on USA Today fact-check: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ed/3455297001/
    Last edited by howeird; 22nd Jan 2021 at 19:15.

  12. #16062
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Some anonymous goofball thinks he's clever.

  13. #16063
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    Only in America would anti-fascism be something to be ashamed of. People here are so fucking stupid.

  14. #16064
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    The time to breathe and take it easy is over, it seems. The Lincoln Project is going after the Sedition Caucus:


  15. #16065
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Alexei Navalny has released a sort of a mini-documentary about the future the United States has been heading towards. It's nearly two hours long and in Russian, but you can switch on English subtitles, if you click on the CC button. It's mainly about the ginormous palace complex of Putin, said to be the richest man in the world, but it also serves as a small biography of Putin starting from his time as a humble KGB agent in the DDR.


  16. #16066
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Something a little shorter but sweeter, also featuring Vlad.



  17. #16067
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Latest presidential scandal: Biden has a nice watch
    https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/fa...4b821f0fb3acde

    “What’s the worst presidential scandal,” pondered Vox correspondent Ian Millhiser, “the time when Biden wore a Rolex, the time when Obama ordered Dijon mustard, or the time when Trump encouraged a insurrectionist mob to violently seize the Capitol in a vain attempt to overturn an election that he lost?”
    Isn't it good to know we're already back to that stuff?

    Another one before that in news.com.au, which is Murdoch-owned btw, was calling Biden a liar on his election promises:
    https://www.news.com.au/world/north-...ff6a56f16a8e44

    election promise: “I will spare no effort, none, or any commitment, to turn around this pandemic.”

    recent quote: "There is nothing we can do to change the trajectory of the pandemic in the next several months."

    Murdoch's reporter questions whether Biden is a liar now, and quoted this insightful twitter reaction as evidence: "Then why do you want us to wear masks for 100 days?"

    Wow, you got me. Throw the masks away, Biden admitted they don't do anything. A week ago this news site was mocking Trump, because that was the popular thing, now they're unironically promoting anti-masker opinion because Biden is in.

    ~~~

    In any sensible reality, this is Biden saying that whatever he does *from today* is going to take a couple of months to see the full effects. That's just setting realistic expectations, not breaking any promise.
    Last edited by Cipheron; 25th Jan 2021 at 23:42.

  18. #16068
    After yesterday's vote, seems very far fetched to think the impeachment trial will go anywhere. Can't say it's a surprise, but bummer.

  19. #16069
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Looks like Giuliani will finally get his chance in court to prove that the election was rigged and Sidney Powell will finally get her chance to release the Kraken, once and for all:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...wsuit-election

    Dominion Voting Systems, the voting equipment manufacturer at the centre of baseless election fraud conspiracy theories pushed by Donald Trump and his allies, has sued the former president’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani in a $1.3bn defamation lawsuit.

    The 107-page complaint, filed in federal court on Monday, accuses the former New York City mayor of having “manufactured and disseminated” a conspiracy theory related to the company’s voting machines.

    “Dominion’s founder and employees have been harassed and received death threats, and Dominion has suffered unprecedented and irreparable harm,” the lawsuit states.

    The company point to more than 50 statements by Giuliani about Dominion which it describes as defamatory. This includes remarks made at a 6 January rally in Washington before an insurrection on the US Capitol, appearances on Fox Business as well as social media posts.

    [...]

    Giuliani is the second Trump loyalist to face litigation from the company after pushing baseless claims of election fraud. The attorney Sidney Powell, who launched a series of failed lawsuits and pushed wild claims about election integrity, has also been sued for $1.3bn by Dominion.
    [...]

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