✮✮✮ !Trump Dumped! ✮✮✮

[Nicker]

Brethren. Show some respect when the Political Officer is present.

I think the train-wreckery of this thread is inherent in its subject matter. It's T***p's particular poison. He's a moral black-hole.



Glory to the Revolution!

[fett]

nbohr1more, I lived on this forum for 10 years as a conservative, republican, evangelical. If, as you claim, this space is left-leaning and everyone has joined a team, and you've persisted for hundreds of pages to change that to no avail, it's unlikely 600 more pages will do the trick. Responding with, "I never thought of it that way," isn't honest communication in most cases. Maybe the reason they haven't thought of it that way is because it makes no sense, has no proof to support it, etc. You know - the very reasons you've been given over and over already. I believe in magical unicorns, you've just never seen one because they're magical. Have you ever thought of it that way? I'm not trying to be a jerk, but put the shoe on the other foot. You've never thought about magic unicorns AT ALL because it's beyond your threshold of believability (presumably...). Maybe drop the martyr complex and read the room then. Nobody cares what view you take of anything - trust me. I've tested it to the extreme in this space. But there's a difference between stating an opinion and evangelizing. Are you here for community and conversation, or here on a crusade? I'd recommend you ask yourself these questions. Be sure I'm wondering about them as well. Mainly because it feels very much like the latter to me. If you share so little common ground with the majority here, what is the benefit of persisting? There are other places that would certainly welcome your views or at least be more tolerant of them.

And to be honest, I lean heavily toward not caring too much about trashing a 600 page Trump discussion that's long past its sell-by date and leaving a bad taste in so may people's mouths at this point. I'm just trying to catch up at the moment.

So please, carry on.

[Thirith]

I have not posted a single cuss word about any member of this forum yet I am the one who we need to consider banning?

No, you just accuse them of being of being shills, so fuck off with your sanctimonious bullshit.

And why should anyone want to tell you that your takes are interesting?

[nemyax]

I lived on this forum for 10 years as a conservative, republican, evangelical

And then what happened?

[Starker]

Remember the girl who took part in the attack on the US Capitol who was accused of stealing "Nancy Pelosi's laptop" and was insinuated to have been a Russian agent? Bellingcat has come upon some fairly compelling evidence that she's part of the accelerationist Nazi movement. Which, IMO, is far more plausible and goes a long way in explaining her motives and some of the details of the initial story.

Fair warning, the article goes to great lengths to prove her identity and, while a lot of the more explicit things are censored or omitted, it links to a fair bit of nudity and depictions of self harm. Oh, and fascism, obviously.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/amer...g-nazi-salute/

On January 6, 2021, Riley June Williams, a 22-year-old home care worker from Pennsylvania, was one of roughly 800 rioters who breached the US Capitol building in Washington D.C. While many engaged in property damage and violence that day, Williams’ case stands out given her ex-partner has alleged to the FBI that she stole a laptop from Nancy Pelosi’s office.

This former boyfriend also alleges that her goal was to sell the laptop to a Russian intelligence agency, a claim January court documents say “remains under investigation,” but which has been denied by Williams’ lawyer who accuses the former partner of seeking revenge.

While Williams has not been charged with stealing the laptop itself, something she also denies, she faces multiple charges including violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds as well aiding/abetting others to “embezzle, steal, purloin.”

[...]

Several days after Williams was charged in mid-January, an antifascist activist reached out to Bellingcat with a video they believed showed her pledging allegiance to Adolf Hitler. Bellingcat has since shared the footage and findings of its investigation with NBC News.

The 36-second video opens with a young woman dancing in a dress while wearing a hat, glasses and a mask decorated with a skull. These skullmasks were adopted as a symbol by Atomwaffen and similar accelerationist Nazi terrorist groups back in 2017.
[...]

[nbohr1more]

No, you just accuse them of being of being shills, so fuck off with your sanctimonious bullshit.

And why should anyone want to tell you that your takes are interesting?

I see. So we should just openly invite shills into the forums to spam their narratives as long as they are aligned to the right political group?

How about instead we be free to render opinions about the nature of what posters are up to regardless of their political polarity and let the mods
figure out if there is any way to figure out whether these opinions have any merit?

I guess you simply lack the ability to understand how to engage in civil discourse. Of course I do not need to be told anything I say is interesting.
In fact, you don't even have to say nice things about my posts or myself. Just don't try to pretend that you are somehow a hero for resorting to insults.

Accusing someone of "being a shill" is not an insult, it is an accusation. There is a difference.

If you prohibit users from identifying suspected shills then expect to see this place shilled to hell.

If (on the other hand) you just "accusel me of being a shill" for saying this, it just heightens everyone's awareness that "shills exist" and now the forums become unfriendly to shills.

[Jeshibu]

I see. So we should just openly invite shills into the forums to spam their narratives as long as they are aligned to the right political group?

How about instead we be free to render opinions about the nature of what posters are up to regardless of their political polarity and let the mods
figure out if there is any way to figure out whether these opinions have any merit?

I guess you simply lack the ability to understand how to engage in civil discourse. Of course I do not need to be told anything I say is interesting.
In fact, you don't even have to say nice things about my posts or myself. Just don't try to pretend that you are somehow a hero for resorting to insults.

Accusing someone of "being a shill" is not an insult, it is an accusation. There is a difference.

If you prohibit users from identifying suspected shills then expect to see this place shilled to hell.

If (on the other hand) you just "accusel me of being a shill" for saying this, it just heightens everyone's awareness that "shills exist" and now the forums become unfriendly to shills.

An accusation of shillery without proof isn't very different from an insult. It's an assertion that you think they're acting in bad faith (which is ironic, since your accusation of acting in bad faith looks like it's being done in bad faith).

What's the endgame for "making people aware shills exist"? Shouting matches over "you're a shill!" "no u!"? What a lovely forum full of lively discourse that would be. Sign me up.

[Nicker]

How about instead we be free to render opinions about the nature of what posters are up to regardless of their political polarity and let the mods
figure out if there is any way to figure out whether these opinions have any merit?

So, submit to arbitrary authority? Sounds like something a shill would say. And do you mean the original opinions or the opinions about those opinions? Only I want to understand if I need to self-censor my own thoughts or my reaction to someone else's?

Enquiring conspirators want to know.

[Nameless Voice]

For some reason, this thread reminds me of this great piece of Irish comedy:

[uncadonego]

How about instead we be free to render opinions about the nature of what posters are up to regardless of their political polarity and let the mods
figure out if there is any way to figure out whether these opinions have any merit?

That has happened. You just aren't listening.....

nbohr1more, I lived on this forum for 10 years as a conservative, republican, evangelical. If, as you claim, this space is left-leaning and everyone has joined a team, and you've persisted for hundreds of pages to change that to no avail, it's unlikely 600 more pages will do the trick. Responding with, "I never thought of it that way," isn't honest communication in most cases. Maybe the reason they haven't thought of it that way is because it makes no sense, has no proof to support it, etc. You know - the very reasons you've been given over and over already. I believe in magical unicorns, you've just never seen one because they're magical. Have you ever thought of it that way? I'm not trying to be a jerk, but put the shoe on the other foot. You've never thought about magic unicorns AT ALL because it's beyond your threshold of believability (presumably...). Maybe drop the martyr complex and read the room then. Nobody cares what view you take of anything - trust me. I've tested it to the extreme in this space. But there's a difference between stating an opinion and evangelizing. Are you here for community and conversation, or here on a crusade? I'd recommend you ask yourself these questions. Be sure I'm wondering about them as well. Mainly because it feels very much like the latter to me. If you share so little common ground with the majority here, what is the benefit of persisting? There are other places that would certainly welcome your views or at least be more tolerant of them.

[nbohr1more]

An accusation of shillery without proof isn't very different from an insult. It's an assertion that you think they're acting in bad faith (which is ironic, since your accusation of acting in bad faith looks like it's being done in bad faith).

What's the endgame for "making people aware shills exist"? Shouting matches over "you're a shill!" "no u!"? What a lovely forum full of lively discourse that would be. Sign me up.

Mods can follow up:

Look at the IP addresses used to login and see if there were any recent changes to these patterns where a quarter of the logins are coming from another country, etc.

See if the poster uses the same links and sentences seen in other political forums.

It doesn't have to go that far.

A shill needs to operate in a space where their words are always either neutral or celebrated.

All one needs to do to keep shills at bay is to "play devils advocate", "imagine how this looks for people who believe X", etc.

This discussion is a shill magnet because the forum is filled with participants who are hungry for as much material that is negative for Trump \ Republicans as possible and
have little reservation about accepting any source of negativity regardless of how biased it might be.

Unfortunately, as a Bernie Sanders supporting "conspiracy nutter" I am a poor substitute for a true right leaning participant in this conversation.

This type of thread needs someone more coherent and strongly right leaning to balance out the topic and cure this place of it's shill hauntings.

[faetal]

You are free to post your opinions here.
We are free to respond to them honestly.
You are now whining about the second part.

What is your actual aim here? Are you letting off steam, trying to convert people to your way of thinking?
What are you actually doing about any of this deep state stuff past rambling about it in obscure gaming forums?
Is this really the hill you want to die on?

It's the same pattern each time:

1) Outrageous claim
2) People ask for evidence
3) Post something which is cosmetically related to 5% of outrageous claim, expect people to accept the other 95% out of hand
4) People point this out, often taking the time to go through your links (a courtesy I think you under-appreciate - they aren't obliged to spend the time)
5) Call everyone shills, or change the goal posts again with a new claim and a link which tangentially supports a minute part of it, or claim that google suppressed the real evidence at the behest of the deep state, etc.
6) Repeat until everyone's patience gives way to either ignoring you, or telling you to stop in less than charitable terms

[fett]

How about this: mods aren't being paid to follow up. This is a tiny forum in the ocean of the web with members who have interacted with one another for 20+ years in some cases. It's not a harbor for some clandestine agenda. You've barged into a public forum inhabited by a group of people who largely hold a differing opinion than you. Nothing more. There's no such "need" for more right-leaning anything. This is not a jury of your peers nor a bi-partisan committee in which your position is being unfairly underrepresented. You are owed nothing here.
Your opinions are simply being rejected and you're throwing a tantrum about it. So take them to a more accepting venue.

Yes, an accusation in bad faith is an insult, and right now I have zero patience for you calling into question the veracity and credibility of people you've interacted with for five minutes. More civil disourse in this house begins with you knocking that off. Call faetal or Thirth a "shill" one more time and you're gone. The notion is ridiculous and I don't owe you proof or explanation for why I know they're not. I have 20 years worth of it, 11 of those on the opposite side of every debate that came through these doors. Your lack of context has turned from amusing to offensive at this point.

Read. The. Room.

You may be 100% right about everything but that's not even the point. I'll ask one more time - why is it so important to you that TTLG see things your way?

[bjack]

I don't think a shill would bother with this chat site. I find the majority of posters here to be very left leaning, but that is their bag and they have the right to carry it. I lean more center right. I've posted here under the influence of intoxicants and have been ignored by many. So be it. This is just a simple little web site set up to celebrate some games made 20 + years ago. It is not an intellectual storehouse of wise information and perfection.

I do have to say that this thread has become very entertaining. However, it is a tired subject. Trump is out and I feel this thread is worn out as well. Not my command though, just my opinion.

Are there shills out there... within the depths of the internet... mucking up the works? Yes. Are they here? I don't think so. And if they are, they are not very effective. Or needed for that matter.

May you all stay safe and happy. Good day.

[uncadonego]

This type of thread needs someone more coherent and strongly right leaning to balance out the topic and cure this place of it's shill hauntings.

Yeah, the problem isn't organizations like The Twelfth Directorate, it's TTLG members. Yeah, balance...

But the Clintons! So powerful and in control of everything that they can't win an election, even when she wins.

You have made this thread about yourself enough. Go away.

[fett]

Yes - on that topic: Thanks, but this site is what it is and I wouldn't expect you to understand that. The people here have RL relationships that transcend the board itself and I can guarantee it doesn't need your advice about how to balance things out, particularly on this topic because -and grab a pencil for this one - it's a GAMING site. The fact that you think what happens here matters in the context you're talking about is flattering, but nontheless delusional.

If it's any consolation, I dislike the Clintons more than Trump and everyone here knows it. Difference between us is I stopped screaming about it when I figured out it doesn't matter here and I'd said all there was to say. You passed that about 100 pages ago.

[ZylonBane]

If it's any consolation, I dislike the Clintons more than Trump and everyone here knows it.

Considering Trump indirectly killed tens of thousands of Americans, encouraged white nationalism, and did everything in his power to undermine our democratic institutions, and the Clintons, y'know... DIDN'T, sounds like you've got some pretty powerful crazy going on there yourself.

[fett]

It's only just a teeny bit and it's personal. Not saying Trump isn't cesspools worse than the Clintons, just that I can look at his face for about 3 seconds longer than theirs.

[june gloom]

I've long had criticisms of the moderation style on this forum but in borememore's case I hope that TTLG just does what it usually does -- nothing -- because I honestly find this guy pretty darn funny.

Anyway, I have to remark that it says a lot in 2021 when someone actually still cares about the Clintons, none of it good. We've got bigger issues to deal with than an aging neoliberal warmon- ... nevermind. Joe's basically the same thing. At least Clinton never promised us $2000 that we're never gonna get.