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View Poll Results: How long will Trump be President?

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  • 1 Term (4 Years)

    31 19.14%
  • 2 Terms (8 Years)

    55 33.95%
  • 1st Term Impeachment/Assassination

    51 31.48%
  • 2nd Term Impeachment/Assassination

    5 3.09%
  • I don't know what's going on!

    20 12.35%
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Thread: ✮✮✮ !Trump Dumped! ✮✮✮

  1. #16401
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Cipheron View Post
    The thing is, things like gerrymandering and other election-fixing things which are legal have been a slow thing that has been entrenched across *decades*, and is closely tied to the power of economic capital'. Political ideology on the right-wing party is supposed to serve capital. If it no longer serves capital, but is about raw political power and ideology in itself, that's how it becomes regular fascism.

    What was propaganda originally becomes ingrained beliefs by the following generation of politicians, if the original ruling elite are toppled from power. My guess is that it's the collapse of the Bush administration which is responsible for this, primarily. That gutted the economic conservative wing of the party, leaving a void there, and with only the right-wing Christian wing still surviving on. So it was only a matter of time before someone worked out how to mobilize that wing for their own goals, and now they're knifing in the back the last remnants of the old style party elite. However the issue here is that it's the old 'establishment' Republicans who built up the political capital in the states over decades to have this much national control.
    Exactly. You've nailed the problem/dynamic so well!
    They lack - for now - a religious-like "mystic" form needed for the ultimate mutation (Fascism is not a simple "authoritarian" regime, it's political mysticism+idealism with a totalitarian and militaristic setup - it's why they need white supremastists and their tribal-idealistic racism, to gain the mystic form that pure liberal(istic) conservatism has not )
    But I think they want to push this pseudofascism to the extreme only to attract the angry, desperate ones vote.
    Last edited by lowenz; 26th Sep 2021 at 04:37.

  2. #16402
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    Exactly. You've nailed the problem/dynamic so well!
    They lack - for now - a religious-like "mystic" form needed for the ultimate mutation (Fascism is not a simple "authoritarian" regime, it's political mysticism+idealism with a totalitarian and militaristic setup - it's why they need white supremastists and their tribal-idealistic racism, to gain the mystic form that pure liberal(istic) conservatism has not )
    But I think they want to push this pseudofascism to the extreme only to attract the angry, desperate ones vote.
    Lack the mystic form? Maybe you haven't considered QAnon for that role. The "Where We Go One We Go All" chanting, and the constant talk of the Great Awakening and the forces of Satan. You can justify just about any means when the enemy is literally Satan. I think the main reason we didn't see this coalescing into the "mystic" form already is because Trump lost the election, thus exploding the mythology that QAnon was creating. Trump losing the election was effectively the only thing that QAnon couldn't survive.

    However I think you're right that they *courted* racist votes, but those aren't the surefire vote winners they once were. Even the most racist of pundits now has to couch everything to appear non-racist, so that really diffuses any racial ideology based party. Trump got most of the 2016 votes in the Rust Belt he needed by promising coal and steel jobs would return. They didn't, and he lost. Sure, he tried to shore up a racist reactionary base, but that ultimately didn't work. You can't make it work when you can *outright* say stuff about race. See Tucker Carlson on FOX News who is very racist, but his main BLM angle is that it's not actually black people behind BLM, but white Antifa members, and he dismisses that racism exists and says black and white races get along fine unless people stir the shit. Sure, he's clearly an obsessed racist, but ... you can't build a movement of zealots based on Tucker Carlson's stuff. That's why something like QAnon was critical: it allowed new converts to come into the base without feeling like they were, or needed to become, racists.
    Last edited by Cipheron; 26th Sep 2021 at 06:47.

  3. #16403
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Well, that's for Trump, not the GOP!

  4. #16404
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    Well, that's for Trump, not the GOP!
    But the hero-worship element is a key part of that fascist mysticism in the first place, so when analyzing elements as to whether they're part of a GOP fascism it doesn't make any sense to distinguish "for Trump" things from GOP things. Like, The Hitler Youth is clearly a part of german fascism "mysticism" as you put it, despite being specifically idol worship of Hitler as a person. Trump is the nexus, so any mysticism had to have him as an element. If Trump had won a second term, QAnon would have survived forever, since only him losing an election would contradict their belief system, and he can only run twice. And in a way, it has survived, if you look at the massive amount of people who claim Trump is still the legit president. THAT is the reality bending mystical belief right there. QAnon got dented, but then the belief just morphed and they jettisoned the problematic parts. In the aftermath, some Qinfluencers have faded while new ones have risen. The MyPillow guy for example.

    Other news, the great bamboo hunt of 2021.

    https://www.verifythis.com/article/n...8-1e083f285712

    It's sad that actual journalists have to debunk racist nonsense being spread by elected officials.

    Is there any evidence of bamboo fibers in the paper ballots cast in Maricopa County, Arizona, during the 2020 presidential election?
    ...
    On May 5, Dennis Welch, a political journalist based in Phoenix, interviewed an official who claimed he was helping oversee the election audit in Arizona. The official, identified as John Brakey of AUDIT USA, said he was looking for bamboo fibers because of an accusation that 40,000 ballots from Southeast Asia were flown to Arizona and stuffed into the ballot boxes ahead of the 2020 presidential election. In a video posted on Twitter by Welch, Brakey claimed the audit was being conducted because “people in Southeast Asia” use “bamboo in their paper,” while also making it clear that he did not actually believe the claim himself.
    ...
    Kinder Chambers, an independent textiles expert, told VERIFY that while bamboo paper has been made by hand in China for centuries, in the United States, there has never been that much paper made with bamboo. Chambers said the only American-made paper with bamboo was created in 1995 by one manufacturer who apparently made one big batch and never made any more. He says it was never made for commercial use.

    “There is no general paper that has some bamboo fibers in the U.S. That kind of quality is for toilet paper – and I don’t mean like American quality – more like Europe, in the bathrooms of Europe,” said Chambers. “We don’t see any bamboo paper coming out of China. They make clothing, T-shirts, sleep clothing and casual clothing. Bamboo paper stock would be easily recognizable, especially by feel.”

    In her letter to the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors, Arizona Senate President Karen Fann invited the board to attend a meeting at the Arizona State Capitol on Tuesday, May 18, requesting that they bring officials from the elections department who would have knowledge of their elections procedures.

    In its response, the Board said: “We will not be attending. We will not be responding to any additional inquiries from your ‘auditors.’ Their failure to understand basic election processes is an indication you didn’t get the best people to perform in your political theatre. We have wasted enough County resources. People’s tax dollars are real, your ‘auditors’ are not. We express our united view that your ‘audit,’ no matter what your intentions were in the beginning, has become a spectacle that is harming all of us. Our state has become a laughingstock… You are using purple lights and spinning tables. You are hunting for bamboo. These are not things that serious auditors of elections do.”
    Another article, this guy is summarizing the roasting of the Arizona state legislature by the Maricopa County board of supervisors. He links the full document which he says is a blast to read.
    https://www.davisvanguard.org/2021/0...roves-a-farce/

    Paul Boyer, a Republican member of the Arizona state Senate responded to this, “It makes us look like idiots.”
    “In your letter, you state that Maricopa County “has refused to provide passwords necessary to access vote tabulation devices.” However, as we have previously told you, we have produced every password in our custody and control. You, however, accuse us of lying. You state that we could not have conducted our forensic audits without additional passwords, and that ‘it strains credulity’ to suggest that our contract with Dominion Voting Systems does not allow us to obtain additional, proprietary passwords belonging to Dominion.”

    They write: “The contract is a public record: you could have requested it. Even a cursory review would show there is no contractual provision granting the County the ability to acquire Dominion’s proprietary passwords. Instead you call us liars and insult us, when a simple public records request would have helped you avoid such indecent conduct.”

    Further they note: “Your chosen ‘auditors,’ the Cyber Ninjas, are certainly many things. But ‘accredited by the EAC’ is not one of them. Regardless, we cannot give you a password that we do not possess any more than we can give you the formula for Coca Cola. We do not have it; we have no legal right to acquire it; and so, we cannot give it to you.”
    ...
    "You are photographing ballots contrary to the laws that the Senate helped enact, and you are sending those images to unidentified places and people. You have repeatedly lost control of your twitter account, which has tweeted things that appear to be the rantings of a petulant child—not the serious statements of a serious audit."
    Oh god, I love the burns here. Maricopa County insists on putting quotes any time they use the word 'auditors'.
    Last edited by Cipheron; 26th Sep 2021 at 08:25.

  5. #16405
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Cipheron View Post
    Sure, he's clearly an obsessed racist, but ... you can't build a movement of zealots based on Tucker Carlson's stuff.
    Looking at it from another angle though, you can't build a movement of zealots without people like Tucker Carlson. At least in my experience, a lot of white supremacists (of the worst kind) are fans of him and grateful to him for mainstreaming their ideas, for pushing what's acceptable to say in mainstream media, for sowing doubt and fear.

    Also, how many zealots you really need is a question in and of itself....

    "The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist."

    -- Hannah Arendt
    The Origins of Totalitarianism

  6. #16406
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Or simply people that ACTIVELY AND WILLINGLY REJECT the distinction between fact and fiction.

    That's the problem today. They "feel" the ultimate freedom (from that hyper-rational system that is behind the today world dynamics they see as a "spirit cage" ) in this rejection.
    They WANT to believe, as brialliantly put 20 years ago by the character of Fox Mulder in X-Files. It's kind of a liberation and realization sense for these people.
    Last edited by lowenz; 26th Sep 2021 at 16:19.

  7. #16407
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    It seems the Texas pro-life people are upset that someone launched a lawsuit against a doctor performing an abortion - that's the actual enforcement mechanism but you're *not actually supposed to launch the lawsuits*. So far, doctors have stopped performing abortions there due to the theoretical possibility of dealing with such lawsuits, so it's meant to just intimidate people into stopping.

    effectively, previous anti-abortion laws failed because they needed to be enforced by state employees and those actions could be blocked by legal means while the constitutionality of the law was questioned (they're not constitutional). But the current law just basically encourages people to take out civil suits against doctors, and that's supposed to just put a chilling effect on providing medical care. Additionally, since it's members of the public supposed to do the lawsuits then those actions cannot be blocked on constitutional grounds: they're not part of the government, the same as how the whole "but my first amendment!" thing doesn't mean Twitter needs to let you say anything you want.

    Actual lawsuits against actual doctors who did actual abortions threatens the entire ruse since once it's in the legal system it might all come crashing down.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...s-backpedaling

    Interestingly, the anti-choice movement doesn’t seem entirely happy that the lawsuits that enforce the abortion ban they championed are now actually arriving in Texas courts. John Sego, a legislative director of the anti-choice group Texas Right to Life, which supports SB8, expressed displeasure that the law is being enforced – well, exactly the way it was designed. He called the lawsuits “self-serving legal stunts”. Yet he also claimed that “Texas Right to Life is resolute in ensuring that [SB8] is fully enforced.” If Sego and other anti-choice groups want the law enforced, why do they oppose private citizens enforcing it, using the bill’s own remedy?
    ...
    But perhaps the real reason Sego is displeased with the lawsuits against Braid is that SB8’s bounty hunting enforcement system was only one small part of the anti-choice vision for the law. The real way that abortions would become inaccessible in Texas under SB8 wasn’t that people would sue; it was that abortion providers, faced with the prospect of being bankrupted by lawsuits, would preemptively stop performing abortions. It was an attempt to do by intimidation what the anti-choice movement was not confident they could do by law: strip Texan women of their constitutional right to control their own bodies and lives. And, mostly, this gambit has worked. In the more than three weeks since SB8 went into effect, legal abortions after six weeks have come to a halt in Texas. Fearing liability, clinics are turning pregnant patients away. So far, only Dr Braid has called the anti-choice movement’s bluff.
    So it's a whole new gambit: basically deputize the public to harass your ideological opponents when it's against the law for you to do that directly.

    ~~~

    EDIT: also news: Republican local official dead of Covid, didn't share password for servers, now they're locked out of their data
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmkUxx4JKzI (5 minute video)
    Last edited by Cipheron; 27th Sep 2021 at 21:54.

  8. #16408
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Tucker Carlson's latest deranged thing: the "cult of coronavirus" has replace good old Christianity. Note to Carlson, Christianity has been declining for a while and has nothing to do with coronavirus.

    One of the choice moments was when he blasted Kathy Hochul as one of the cult leaders. Kathy Hochul was the Lieutenant Governor of New York, now Governor since Cuomo resigned.

    Carlson called her a "high priestess" of the Democratic Covid cult and says "nobody voted for Hochul as governor, and that seems 'odd' for a politician" and said "but it's typical for a faith leader: nobody voted for Jim Jones either". This is just weaponized ignorance. Hochul won an election for Lt Governor, and was appointed as Governor later due to the normal chain of succession. This is not exactly rocket science to work out it isn't "odd".

    Carlson goes on to say that getting the vaxx is like being anointed / baptized in the new religion. Which is specifically going to make his religious followers fear the jab as being anti-Christian, right?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IHimOs0aGY

    Carlson then points out that you can now by Jesus's Nativity scenes where they're wearing Covid masks and he says this is another sign of the cult in action: they're even masking Jesus now! But that's missing the point: he just contradicted himself. Those are commercially produced figures on sale to *Christians* so clearly not something that would be bought by some anti-god cultists.
    Last edited by Cipheron; 29th Sep 2021 at 01:35.

  9. #16409
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    The joyful fruits of "freedom".....THE STRATEGIC DELIRIUM to capture feeble minds: https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tuck...lt-coronavirus

    And speaking of babies, you’ll want to celebrate your children's baptism by vax by purchasing a sacred text to memorialize this moment. We recommend this age-appropriate Tony Fauci coloring book. This book promises, quote, hand-illustrated coloring pages starring your quarantine dreamboat. Not surprisingly, the reviews online are glowing. Everyone loves it. With one exception, of course, there's always an apostate. The kind of person burning stakes were created for. Here’s what that nasty, nonbeliever said in the snarkiest possible way: "There's a section at the back of the book where kids color numerous pages solid black to help Dr. Fauci cover up his involvement in the pandemic

    Is this right irony?
    Last edited by lowenz; 29th Sep 2021 at 04:58.

  10. #16410
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Yeah, the whole purpose seems to be to just terminally confuse everyone about what's real. Meanwhile due to their own messaging, Republicans are dying of Covid at massively higher rates than Democrats.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...publicans.html
    As of September 2021, 92% of Democrats say they have received a COVID-19 vaccine compared to 66% of Independents and 56% of Republicans
    So about 18% of the deaths would be Democrats by that basis, 82% would be Republicans. However, the unvaxxed Democrats definitely skew a lot younger than Republicans ones do, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if > 90% of the dead are Republicans now.

    So there's basically a 9/11 worth of THEIR OWN supporters dying every two days because their leaders are throwing them under the bus. If that carried on for a year, you'd have half a MILLION missing Republican voters. I'm counting a potential winter Delta spike here to make that assessment.

    This is so patently illogical of a party that actually expects to win elections that you have to wonder whether the snowball is so big now they lost control of it. Basically they have collective insanity, since they're killing their own voters to score e-peen points. With the amount of those right-wing radio guys dying, I'm not going to be at all surprised if a lot of mid level Republican operatives get nuked over the winter.

  11. #16411
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Let's not feign surprise when Fox News (and its associated dickheads) dispenses with reality - it is a purpose built propaganda machine, that's its raison d'etre.

  12. #16412
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF9e5ZmLBzA

    This is a new Sydney Powell one. The video is worth watching

    Her first argument here is that the Jan 6 insurrection was *on purpose* so that Powell could delay the election vote and get Justice Alito to overturn the count. She thinks this is a good thing, but she just implicated Alito in some pretty treasonous stuff.

    The second point is HOW she planned to derail events. At the same time that the rioters were storming the Capitol, Powell lodged an injunction against what she SAYS is an uncostitutional new law that allows the Senate to oversee the vote count for president. Powell says they should, instead follow the 12th Amendment, which says that the House counts the presidential votes, and the senate counts the vice presidential votes.

    So what's this "new" law Powell was challenging? It's the Electoral Count Act of 1887. So she's saying this law is no good and goes against the constitution, and she somehow decided that at the same time that rioters were storming the building. This is the standard logic of how everything is wrong, no matter how much established as law or tradition, merely because it blocks their little clique from clinging to power.

    So that's her full claim there, her and her buddies orchestrated the Jan 6 insurrection as a delaying tactic so that she could launch a Supreme Court challenge to the Electoral Count Act of 1887 and have Justice Alito freeze the count while they work out the constitutionality of the 1887 law. The whole thing was so clearly illogical that the only logic is that they wanted to drag things on past Jan 20 so that Biden wouldn't be sworn in. Why it didn't work, in Powell's words, is because Nancy Pelosi immediately reconvened the count and they got it done overnight. Powell says she expected the insurrection to delay by at least a day or two.

    Here's the info on the 1887 law:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Count_Act

    The Electoral Count Act of 1887 is a United States federal law adding to procedures set out in the Constitution of the United States for the counting of electoral votes following a presidential election. The Act was enacted by Congress in 1887, ten years after the disputed 1876 presidential election, in which several states submitted competing slates of electors and a divided Congress was unable to resolve the deadlock for weeks. Close elections in 1880 and 1884 followed, and again raised the possibility that with no formally established counting procedure in place partisans in Congress might use the counting process to force a desired result.
    So you can see exactly what they were thinking here. They were trying to engineer exactly the type of crisis the 1887 law was designed to avoid. This why Powell clearly wants to return to the 12th Amendment: because it has loopholes that allow partisans to delay things and rig the vote any way they want.

    ~~~

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr7McIWvoUk

    New book by White House insider: Trump refused anesthesia for a colonoscopy operation because he didn't want to *temporarily* hand over Presidential powers to Mike Pence.

    Another look into the bizarro mind of Trump. But there's some schadenfreude there since you can now imagine Trump being buttfucked by a robot probe without any painkillers because of his "pride".

    ~~~

    Also: "Feds Ask Marjorie Taylor Greene to Account for $3.5 Million in Donations".
    https://www.newsweek.com/feds-ask-ma...ations-1626920
    Meanwhile if a Democrat couldn't account for a cup of coffee the Republicans lose their shit over it.
    Last edited by Cipheron; 29th Sep 2021 at 21:56.

  13. #16413
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    This could just be Sidney Powell's fantasy.

    By the time the day rolled around to Jan 6, the courts had already booted her challenges. And she already made herself a national laughing stock after a couple of press conferences where she parroted internet rumors and conspiracy memes as justification for her legal actions. So I find it hard to believe she was in the middle of some organized plan for Jan 6, since (a) law enforcement was unable to find any sort of cabal of organizers, and (b) her stature was zero after losing every case and giving a couple of cringe-worthy press conferences. And if there was some big plan that she was conspiring with others on, she'd have to be nuts to be talking about it in public interviews.

    The first time I saw her, I wasn't sure whether she was an opportunist, or a true believer in the big lie. She could have started into this hoping to raise her stature, either to raise her billing rates, or land a job at the White House or RNC. But by the time we got to Jan 6, it was obvious to me that she was a believer.

    And the more she talks, the more I wonder whether Sidney Powell is suffering from a mental illness. Or maybe she's just wants to be one of Trump's girls. It makes no sense.

  14. #16414
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Yeah I'm not claiming that there was anyone else involved. Note I said that she implicated Alito, but also "The second point is HOW she planned to derail events". Not "them" but "she".

    The main reason of interest is her targeting the 1887 law and looking into the history to work out why someone would even look at that. look at her going on about "12th Amendment, remember the 12th Amendment" then you read about what the actual 1887 law was designed to prevent and you can see her logic.

    She DID in fact launch this legal challenge on Jan 6th during the crisis and it was obviously her last ace in the sleeve and she was hoping that it would tie up the process in legal challenges. If so, she flubbed the timing, but now she's claiming it was in fact masterful timing by her and the puppet masters.

    This is more speculative but fitting with what she said: imagine that she actually got the SC tied up debating whether the 1887 law was constitutional, then her camp could push that the "12th Amendment" set of rules could be used as a fall-back, and the Democrats desperate to get something confirmed before Jan 20 go along with it. THEN in the Congress, a bunch of Republican state legislators issue their own "alternate slate of electors" and basically overturn the confirmed votes, in the same sort of crisis mentioned as leading to the 1887 bill. They would have just been banking that Alito was their guy, and perhaps Powell promised some state legislators that she had Alito on side, and that's why she's pulling Alito's name into it. This may all just be to secure work from people she needs money from so she needs to keep up lies she told those people at the time.

    ~~~

    Cenk from TYT interviewing a prominent QAnon guy. This is really how you do a good interview. You could really SEE the levels of cult indoctrination being worked through here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoJEBw-c3TE

    1) Cenk asks open questions to let the guy totally define what Qanon is in his own words, which the guy PR spins as a common sense bi-partisan movement to unite the working masses against elite corruption in media, government, business. This is a standard cult recruitment type pitch: avoid telling you ANYTHING that's specifically a belief of the movement.

    2) Cenk pivots to hitting him with detailed, specific questions about how "brain juice harvesting" and "baby eating" fit into this. The guy then clearly starts to crack up and rambles on about how those aren't core beliefs and that they only represent a tiny fraction of the Q-posts, and they've been blown out of proportion by a 'game of telephone' and don't represent the true QAnon beliefs. So part two is to look past anything you hear about crazy beliefs as those aren't even what we're about.

    3) Cenk just corners him with a yes/no question on whether HE believes the brain-juice harvesting and baby-eating is real. This is where the game is up, the guy admits he DOES believe the whole thing, except his equivocating in the second part was apparently about *who* is doing the brain-juice harvesting and baby-eating. So his whole facade of being a "reasonable" member of QAnon just crumbles in an instant.

    4) The guy clearly realizes he's over-stepped so he tries to backtrack into the "this is really only about justice" stuff ... while still making sure to keep one foot in the brain-eating stuff but always allowing for plausible denial.
    Last edited by Cipheron; 1st Oct 2021 at 03:18.

  15. #16415
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    "When fascism comes to America, it will come molesting the flag and carrying a bible upside down."

    https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...ed-by-man-with

    A man tried to use a Molotov cocktail to damage the Travis County Democratic Party headquarters in Austin, Texas, on Wednesday morning, officials said.

    Katie Naranjo, chair of the county’s Democratic Party, told reporters during a news conference on Wednesday that the man, who was wearing a bandana with the American flag on it, had attempted to attack the building at 2 a.m.

    Brandon Jennings, the captain of the Austin Fire Department’s arson section, said the man placed an “incendiary device” inside the building. He said a stack of papers appeared to have been lit on fire, but the actual device did not ignite.

    Jennings said workers from a nearby business had extinguished the fire by the time authorities arrived.

    No staff had been inside the building and there was minimal damage, he said.

    [...]

    Naranjo mentioned that the suspect had left a threatening note that was “political in nature,” but declined to provide further details of what the note had said.
    [...]

  16. #16416
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Recently i started using seatbelts as an analogy for people who refuse vaccines / masks. At some point you have to stop beating the drum and just say: "ok the seatbelt is there, you know the risks, if you don't use it, no skin off my nose". However, yesterday on a doco I discovered that anti-seatbelt was a Rush Limbaugh thing, and right-wing talking point in general, and conservatives refused to wear seatbelts to own the libs.

    https://www.businessinsider.com.au/w...t-belts-2020-5
    Last edited by Cipheron; 3rd Oct 2021 at 23:01.

  17. #16417
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    I usually use the drunk driving metaphor. No one gives the slightest crap if you want to get hammered and wrap your car around a telephone pole, it's illegal because you don't have the right to endanger other people.

  18. #16418
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Moyer View Post
    I usually use the drunk driving metaphor. No one gives the slightest crap if you want to get hammered and wrap your car around a telephone pole, it's illegal because you don't have the right to endanger other people.
    Sure, i get where you're coming from that, the analogy is better.

    My main point however was that there was a whole conservative thing about refusing to wear seatbelts because they thought that was handing it to the liberals, and how much this parallels what's happening with masks now.

    There were even identical talking points, such as claiming that seatbelts aren't effective, OR that being thrown out of the car is SAFER than getting "constrained" by a seatbelt in the smouldering wreckage of your car. So yeah, there were a bunch of people with "deadly seatbelt" conspiracies mirroring the mask and vaccine stuff now.

    ... Now that I think of it, i just remembered someone once upon a time, 1990s probably, telling me that seatbelts are a secret ploy to decapitate people in accidents, because if you got beheaded by the seatbelt then they wouldn't have to pay out your auto-insurance. I had no idea what to think of that at the time, but now I think that this was part of the anti-seatbelt conspiracy propaganda of the day.
    Last edited by Cipheron; 4th Oct 2021 at 12:13.

  19. #16419
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Seatbelts are the least of it. They routinely vote in mega-rich psychos who make sure that very few people can have affordable healthcare to stick it to the liberals too.

  20. #16420
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Steve Bannon's latest thing is about calling for 20,000 "shock troopers" to be ready to take over every department of the government, he contrasted that as "not 4000 but 20000".

    Clearly, the context here is referring to the Jan 6th capitol insurrection, and what he's saying is that it wasn't big enough, and they need to have a coordinated effort to seize control of all government agencies simultaneously to put their plan into action. The term itself of "shock troopers" is designed to be as close as possible to actual Nazi imagery as you can get without quite crossing that line.
    Last edited by Cipheron; 7th Oct 2021 at 02:06.

  21. #16421
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    It seems pretty clear Bannon doesn't have a clue about how police and national guard work OR he's simply playing his part knowing exactly that it's a massive travesty (tragedy)?

  22. #16422
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    It seems pretty clear Bannon doesn't have a clue about how police and national guard work OR he's simply playing his part knowing exactly that it's a massive travesty (tragedy)?
    Given the rest of his language said stuff like "we're really in control so it's time to prove it", my guess is that a guard / military uprising would be part of the plan. Note that recently the military has been *very* interested in purging right-wing radicals from their ranks and the right-wing are up in arms about it. So the idea that radicalized far-right soldiers might participate in a coup is now a threat taken seriously.

  23. #16423
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Soldiers without equipment can't do nothing today (apart dying of "democratic hoax" viruses......)

  24. #16424
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    People equipped with little more than tasers and bear spray and flagpoles managed to break into and vandalise the US Capitol while Congress was in session.
    Last edited by Starker; 7th Oct 2021 at 04:30.

  25. #16425
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    Bannon is talking about having a standing army of future Republican civil servants pre-screened, pre-selected, and pre-trained, so the next Republican President can replace the whole political leadership of every department within days of taking office. Trump didn't take transition seriously, so his administration got off to the slowest start since Bill Clinton. Bannon learned a lesson from that. He's not talking about an actual coup, he's talking about expediting the replacement of appointees so that you don't have a bunch of leftover Democrats in department leadership positions resisting your agenda after you take office.

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