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View Poll Results: How long will Trump be President?

Voters
144. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1 Term (4 Years)

    26 18.06%
  • 2 Terms (8 Years)

    51 35.42%
  • 1st Term Impeachment/Assassination

    50 34.72%
  • 2nd Term Impeachment/Assassination

    4 2.78%
  • I don't know what's going on!

    13 9.03%

Thread: ✮✮✮ !Trump Dump! ✮✮✮

  1. #1651
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2016
    This level of post-elections protests and discontent is certainly wholly new to me.
    Again, people who are still insisting that all this is done deal keep ignoring so much. We are in wholly uncharted territory here.

  2. #1652
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    Unlike an electoral college overturn, impeachment has more than a vanishing possibility. Not right away though. If Trump is scandal-ridden and unpopular enough that the party fears a big loss in the midterms, maybe it could happen. It would be unprecedented though. Previous impeachments of Johnson and Clinton, and the articles of impeachment against Nixon (who resigned before it could be carried out), were initiated when the opposition party had a majority in both houses of Congress.

    And the protests we've seen this year are nothing compared to what happened in the late 1960s and early 1970s during the Johnson and Nixon years.

  3. #1653
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: The Land of Make Believe
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    The whole idea of free trade and open borders that a lot of people now consider a liberal pipe dream? That's actually a classic conservative position, a market economy for the world to enjoy, and he's all but throwing that to the wind.
    I would say free markets and open borders has always been a classic liberal position.

    Whereas conservatives have traditionally vacillated between supporting and opposing free markets as it suited them (essentially, whatever can make the rich even richer).

  4. #1654
    Quote Originally Posted by Increasing View Post
    Only fantasy here is that of Trump supporters, thinking that this is anywhere near over.
    Here, read this, and welcome yourself back to reality. We'll be waiting for you:

    http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politi...-clinton-trump

  5. #1655
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by SD View Post
    I would say free markets and open borders has always been a classic liberal position.

    Whereas conservatives have traditionally vacillated between supporting and opposing free markets as it suited them (essentially, whatever can make the rich even richer).
    It all depends on what you mean by open borders. Conservatives have traditionally been kinda touchy about the immigration part open borders, but when it comes to trade and goods crossing between nations, they've always been all for that without question. NAFTA, for instance, was a Republican drafted piece of legislation.

    The whole idea of conservatism being synonymous with an isolationist America has only been a thing since Obama became president.

  6. #1656
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: The Land of Make Believe
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    It all depends on what you mean by open borders. Conservatives have traditionally been kinda touchy about the immigration part open borders, but when it comes to trade and goods crossing between nations, they've always been all for that without question. NAFTA, for instance, was a Republican drafted piece of legislation.

    The whole idea of conservatism being synonymous with an isolationist America has only been a thing since Obama became president.
    I don't know the situation in the US as well, but certainly in the UK, the conservative commitment to free markets has always been conditional, to be traded away as and when convenient.

    I mean, this is an election poster from the British Conservative party c1930:



    Barely half a century later, they were committed to laissez-faire markets with very light regulation.

    By 2016, they're removing us from a free trade zone because they're not allowed to have free movement of goods and capital without also accepting free movement of people.

  7. #1657
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    I'm not sure I understand the idea of protests being a valid way of opposing an election result.
    Hey, 50% of people of voted for Trump, but 1%* of people are really angry, so we're going to give it to Hilary.

    I'm no fan of Trump, but come on.

    * probably orders of magnitude lower in reality.

  8. #1658
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Yeah, when I speak of conservatism, I'm speaking from the purely American definition of it. While British and American conservatives do share a good bit of overlap, especially in social concerns, they don't quite map 1:1 to each other.

    When I say classical conservatism, I'm speaking of the post-WWII definition, which could basically be described as Church, Americana, and laissez-faire capitalism, probably best exemplified by Reagan, and (maybe) Eisenhower. You probably wouldn't ever see a poster like the one you just posted above come from them, because while they might be very weary of different cultures, if someone is up for buying, they're more than willing to sell to them, no questions asked.

  9. #1659
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    Impeachment stuff.

    And the protests we've seen this year are nothing compared to what happened in the late 1960s and early 1970s during the Johnson and Nixon years.
    I remember the protests well I just didn't appreciate they were concerned with newly-elected presidents. I thought it was Vietnam but it's a long time since this was on my radar.

    Thanks for the answer. I'm a little puzzled. On the one hand there is the 'criminal Clinton' though I'm not sure what the crime was involving emails. On the other hand there appears to be some evidence of 'real' criminal activity at Trump university but this wasn't thrown back in retaliation. I find it strange and I don't think it's because Democrats have better manners.

    I have also just read that Trump's attorney has said he's open to settlement now and the judge says the litigants would be wise to settle. It smells just a tad.

  10. #1660
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: The Land of Make Believe
    Quote Originally Posted by faetal View Post
    I'm not sure I understand the idea of protests being a valid way of opposing an election result.
    Hey, 50% of people of voted for Trump, but 1%* of people are really angry, so we're going to give it to Hilary.

    I'm no fan of Trump, but come on.

    * probably orders of magnitude lower in reality.
    47.3% voted for Trump, not 50%, against 47.6% for Hillary, which is one of numerous legitimate grounds on which to protest the result.

  11. #1661
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: 0x0x0
    Yeah, let's protest a legitimate election result. BTW GJ got 4 million votes putting Hillary squarely in the "most of America didn't vote for her" category. I was one of them. I looked on as 95% of my country voted for somebody not fit to be president but you don't see me whining like a spoiled baby who didn't get their way.

  12. #1662
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    But most of America also didn't vote for Trump right?

  13. #1663
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: The Land of Make Believe
    Quote Originally Posted by SlyFoxx View Post
    Yeah, let's protest a legitimate election result. BTW GJ got 4 million votes putting Hillary squarely in the "most of America didn't vote for her" category. I was one of them. I looked on as 95% of my country voted for somebody not fit to be president but you don't see me whining like a spoiled baby who didn't get their way.
    How bizarre. Hillary Clinton was arguably the most qualified Presidential candidate in history.

    And of course you're not whining. Libertarian or Republican, either way you'll get what you want - someone who'll shrink the state until it's small enough to fit in the bedroom.

  14. #1664
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    Quote Originally Posted by nickie View Post
    I have also just read that Trump's attorney has said he's open to settlement now and the judge says the litigants would be wise to settle. It smells just a tad.
    Of course it does. He lied and denied his way through the whole campaign. Now he's going to try to settle up as quickly as he can so a cloud of scandals doesn't hang over him through his term.

  15. #1665
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: 0x0x0
    Quote Originally Posted by faetal View Post
    But most of America also didn't vote for Trump right?
    Did the math that quick did you?

  16. #1666
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: 0x0x0
    Quote Originally Posted by SD View Post
    How bizarre. Hillary Clinton was arguably the most qualified Presidential candidate in history.......
    That's so cute.

  17. #1667
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by SlyFoxx View Post
    That's so cute.
    She really was. There's no denying that. No other candidate running could beat her resume, which consisted of First Lady, twice elected New York senator, and Secretary of State.

    It wasn't her previous experience or achievements that killed her. It was her current reputation. Benghazi (a smear campaign), the email scandal (arguably justified, though milked too hard for political hay), her being the pivotal voice arguing for our eventual involvement in Syria (justified) , and the rumors surrounding the Clinton Foundation (pending) made her vulnerable to Trump. The fact that Trump had oh so slightly more appeal among the blue collar bunch in the Rust Belt sealed the deal.

  18. #1668
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    Of course it does. He lied and denied his way through the whole campaign. Now he's going to try to settle up as quickly as he can so a cloud of scandals doesn't hang over him through his term.
    But why wasn't this brought up till after the election. Or maybe it was and I just didn't see it. Which would be surprising since our media did delight in informing us of every alleged Trump trangression.

    I think the thing is that I have never been left so completely bewildered by an election result as I am by this and it's not even my country. I seem to come up with one question after another. For instance, during election night when I woke up and started watching, the creature that is Andrew Neil was citing what I think was an exit poll. The question was something like 'do you think Trump is a fit person for president'. Apparently 61% of those polled said he wasn't and that same 61% voted for him. I just don't get the rationale. Yes, I understand protest and think protest is healthy especially as I was a protestor in my youth. I understand the protest vote. But to vote for someone you think is unfit?

    Considering that the House and the Senate had/still have Republican majority, what exactly could Clinton do that would have been so terrible. She would have been blocked all the time, wouldn't she? I expect I'm just terribly ignorant of how your government operates.

    This is for Dia.

  19. #1669
    People keep bringing up the popular vote, but it really just doesn't mean anything at all. Should Trump have campaigned more in California, just so he could raise his percentage from 33 to 40%, in an attempt to swing the popular vote in his favor? No, because it would have been a complete waste of time, California was lost to him. So he spent his time and efforts elsewhere.

    The system is what it is. Both candidates knew about it well in advance, and campaigned accordingly. You don't change the rules after the contest is over.

    I voted for Hillary btw, so don't get any funny ideas.

    Edit: Just saw this, pretty depressing considering how close the final tally was:

    Voter turnout at 20-year low in 2016
    Last edited by Brethren; 11th Nov 2016 at 14:33.

  20. #1670
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    Quote Originally Posted by nickie View Post
    But why wasn't this brought up till after the election.
    It was. A lot. I don't know how things were reported over there since I haven't been back in the UK since the primaries started, but over here I'm pretty sure everyone who was paying attention to the election heard of Trump University as well as the sexual assault accusations, and his bankruptcies and taxes and so on. The press gave Trump a helping hand during the primaries, but once he had sealed the nomination the press went after him. Not to mention the Clinton ads. We were saturated with negative ads here in New Hampshire from the Clinton campaign and her supporters. In the last month, it seemed like every commercial break during prime time TV had 15 or 30 seconds of dirt on Trump. YouTube was full of them too. And the bloody mailings, a couple a day towards the end. I'm guessing the Clinton side outspent the Trump side by at least 5:1 here.

  21. #1671
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    Edit: Just saw this, pretty depressing considering how close the final tally was:

    Voter turnout at 20-year low in 2016
    Interesting. I read a whole heap of stuff about turnout being high. But that was probably before people actually turned out.

    Why are there still 2 states apparently counting?

  22. #1672
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    We basically have two Floridas this year (too close to call, recounts, etc.), but Trump won without them, so the final tally is a footnote.

  23. #1673
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    And the bloody mailings, a couple a day towards the end. I'm guessing the Clinton side outspent the Trump side by at least 5:1 here.
    I read so much but the university was perhaps the one thing among all the other stuff that wasn't reported here at the time - that I saw at any rate. I still don't understand why a 'current' lawsuit is trumped by what seems to amount to innuendo. I don't think there's ever been a time when I don't understand a position, whether I agree with it or not. It's very unsettling.

    I did read that Trump won because of hats. He spent more on hats than anything else - comparatively. I guess some of you must like your hats.

    Person attack is very much frowned upon over here. It's not good form to attack anything other than policies. Everything about this election felt vicious. Oh well, apart from fallout, it's nothing really to do with me. I hope things settle down though for all your sakes.

  24. #1674
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    The system is what it is. Both candidates knew about it well in advance, and campaigned accordingly. You don't change the rules after the contest is over.
    People keep saying it is what it is, but what it is, is BS, both in its results AND in how the campaigns have to be conducted. You don't change the rules after the contest is over, agreed, but you DO change the rules for the next contest, so that the rules aren't BS anymore. Especially when the results aren't merely one BS, but repeatedly BS.

    Quote Originally Posted by nickie View Post
    Person attack is very much frowned upon over here. It's not good form to attack anything other than policies.
    Huh. Wish we had that.

  25. #1675
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by Increasing View Post
    You are. It was well known from the start that his candidacy was intended as little more than a public stunt. So, its outcome is as shocking to him as it is for everyone else.

    Though, electors are yet to cast their votes, and chances are that this mess is going to end in a very different manner. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if he is working in that direction too behind the scenes.
    ...You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Trump is resolute in his commitment as President of the United States. The electors are committed, as well. Hillary Clinton has conceded the election. Obama has accepted him as President-Elect, and is in the process of transferring presidential powers to him, as we speak.

    The only alternative for the left, is Civil War...which would end with their demise.

    I understand that some people are having a tough time with this, but the delusional thinking is only going to cause more pain.
    Last edited by Vae; 11th Nov 2016 at 15:04.

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