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View Poll Results: How long will Trump be President?

Voters
176. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1 Term (4 Years)

    35 19.89%
  • 2 Terms (8 Years)

    62 35.23%
  • 1st Term Impeachment/Assassination

    51 28.98%
  • 2nd Term Impeachment/Assassination

    6 3.41%
  • I don't know what's going on!

    22 12.50%

Thread: ✮✮✮ !Trump Dumped! ✮✮✮

  1. #17626
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Then you agree with me that all the foamed-mouth rage against him is pointless and silly?
    The faux-independent act is both unoriginal and transparent. A crypto-trumpist can't change its spots.

    The rage against Trump is justified. He is a danger to the USA and the world. People laughed at the clown, Adolph Hitler. Psychopaths are no joke, especially ones with powerful friends who fear him.

    Are you really implying that if Hillary had been president, Covid would not have appeared? So...Trump personally brought the virus into the USA? Sounds like a conspiracy theory.
    Strawman harder, Bucko.

    If Hillary had been president, the policies and protocols, carefully crafted by MEDICAL PRODFESSIONALS, under Obama, would have been enacted and the one million plus who died would have been a fraction of that. Instead we got tRump telling people to inject bleach and shove sunlamps where the sun don't shine.

    You Orange Hero disrupted Fauci and the actual experts at every step.

  2. #17627
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2024
    Location: Egyptian Afterlife
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicker View Post
    Heywood: Fair enough. Good point.

    DD: Seriously? What's to fear, electing the man who would turn the USA into North Korea, only more and more powerful?




    And if you need moving pictures to titillate your attention span...
    Well if you remove the antisemitism and the wars out of the picture, mister Schicklgruber (Hitler's original name) did restore industry and the economy that was on the floor dying (i am not mentioning the military here but is implicit).

  3. #17628
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicker View Post
    If Hillary had been president, the policies and protocols, carefully crafted by MEDICAL PRODFESSIONALS, under Obama, would have been enacted and the one million plus who died would have been a fraction of that. Instead we got tRump telling people to inject bleach and shove sunlamps where the sun don't shine.

    You Orange Hero disrupted Fauci and the actual experts at every step.
    I think you are severely overestimating the effect federal policy has on the individual states in the US. There still would have been fierce resistance to any sensible policy, only it would have been on a more local level. The situation was undoubtedly made worse by his inept handling of the situation, disastrous messaging, and kneejerk reactions, but I don't think the majority of the deaths could have been prevented even under another president.

  4. #17629
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2024
    Location: Egyptian Afterlife
    And before someone says White supremacist nazi to me, know this:
    As a teen I was in daydreaming with Lisa Bonet, I listened to Prince music mostly all the time, some Michael Jackson music too, and some of my favorite actors are Tony Todd, and Denzel Washington (and Samuel L Jackson Mothatf...).

  5. #17630
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    The Nazis did not restore any economy or industry outside of the military and they did it by going massively into debt, which they hoped to repay by plundering other countries. The large public works programs that they continued were started under the Weimar Republic. Furthermore, they encouraged the creation of cartels and monopolies, and severely limited workers rights, including introducing things such as the consent of the previous employer being required for someone to change jobs, reducing ordinary workers to little more than serfs. Also, they excluded significant parts of the population (who they robbed and whose wealth they redistributed) from the statistics.

    There is a persistent myth of fascist efficiency where people either ignore all the corruption or simply take fascist propaganda at face value.
    Last edited by Starker; 23rd May 2024 at 04:55.

  6. #17631
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by RippedPhreak View Post
    Then you agree with me that all the foamed-mouth rage against him is pointless and silly?
    It's againt a system that allows men like Trump to represent something and someone other than theirselves.
    Representative democracy is already dangerous, put a narcissist in the game and you'll get hell.

  7. #17632
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    Representative democracy is already dangerous
    You are a threat to the advancement of civilization. Representative Democracy is the only thing keeping tyrants from controlling the world.

  8. #17633
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    When I opened the boards today, I saw that fan favourite, Vae was likely tag-teaming with crypto-trumpist rising star, Ripped Phreak, I asked myself, "Do you want fight strawmen today or get on with your life?"

    Then I saw this video and chose to re-join the fray.



    I have never met a libertarian who wasn't an authoritarian in drag, so when the rank and file libertarians (least among equals?), defy their leadership ( wait... what? I thought... ) and get a standing ovation for an informal motion to "Fuck Trump", it has to be a good day somewhere.

    Right?

    I mean... correct.

    Correct?

  9. #17634
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    You are a threat to the advancement of civilization. Representative Democracy is the only thing keeping tyrants from controlling the world.
    No, it's the today "civilization" that's the threat for every kind of progress because tyrants have realized - and I mean in the practical way, not in theory - democracy can be the perfect tool for their ambitions. Just read Plato (and no, my solution to this problem is NOT the Plato fascio-idealistic one) and how democracy descend into a demagogic hell (the populism).

    Plato analysis of the democratic dynamics is still correct today, the only problem is, being a "conservative", Plato chooses the "illuminated dictator" (illuminated by his doctrine) instead of the "populist tyrant".....the latter is just SO real today (and Trump being the perfect example of that)

    I have never met a libertarian who wasn't an authoritarian in drag
    Exactly.
    Last edited by lowenz; 26th May 2024 at 04:26.

  10. #17635
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2024
    Location: Egyptian Afterlife
    Wasn't Hitler and Maduro voted in to power, and them bang, surprise, dictatorship.
    You know one thing I can never discern is politics, they're way to messed up.
    That or they (politics) give me gasses.

  11. #17636
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: The other Derry
    When I was at university and in my 20s, I had some friends who were idealistic, principled libertarians. All but one grew out of it, and he's pretty far out there. I lost touch with him 10 or 15 years ago, but last I heard he was living on a pacific atoll and kept stashes of guns and supplies with friends on different continents.

    I've met many more "libertarians" who are just selfish people who don't want to pay any taxes for the government to fund anyone or anything for the common good, and don't want the government regulating anything that affects them personally like gun laws, zoning restrictions, building codes, environmental laws, workplace safety and labor laws. Yet they still expect to live in a clean, modern, orderly society. They can't see the inherent conflict between their political views and the kind of society they want to live in. The best places to live in the world have good government and the shittiest places to live have the weakest governments.

    Trump is no kind of libertarian, which is probably why the Libertarian party's two strongest election performances were in 2016 and 2020.

    If I could, I would redefine libertarian to mean pursuing maximum overall liberty, the most liberty for the greatest number of people. Not freedom from governance, which produces maximum liberty for only a privileged few.

  12. #17637
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Everything Heywood just said, and...

    For a healthy representative democracy to work it needs an engaged and EDUCATED population (woke people).

    This is why authoritarians "love the undereducated" and teach them to distrust academics and experts. Tyrants need experts but they don't want free-range academics giving the children of the undereducated crazy ideas, like personal freedom.

  13. #17638
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    I've met many more "libertarians" who are just selfish people
    That's the problem, they think selfdom is the same of mindless selfishness. And so they evolve to embrace a "tailored around personal property" Pinochet-like authoritarism.
    For this kind of people libertarian principles are just a good ideology to push politically because "freedom!!!1111" but they're rotten to the core (see Milei in Argentina)

  14. #17639
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    What strikes me about libertarians is that they often speak as if the slightest restriction on their personal space is the same as a Stalinesque totalitarian hellscape, no matter the justification, which might be reasonable to most people, it's not restricting any fundamental right, and we're in a democracy after all.

    I also oppose Stalinesque totalitarian hellscapes as much as the next guy, but some problems can't be solved without some kind of social coordination or regulation, and it's no good pretending a problem doesn't exist or will just go away on its own if people close their eyes and trust everything will be okay because "we're the greatest country in the history of history" or whatever... as if the earth's climate or a pandemic care.

    But it is bizarre for Trump to be a posterchild for libertarianism for some people, although I still think the Christian right supporting him is even more bizarre... thinking the anti-abortion candidate is the one that I'm about ready to bet has paid for more abortions than every other US president combined.

  15. #17640
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    But it is bizarre for Trump to be a posterchild for libertarianism for some people...
    Some people perhaps, but not card carrying Libertarians, it seems.

    Apparently Trump tried to stack the convention by getting MAGAts to line up early and steal reserved seats from the actual attendees. That didn't go over so well. I bet the Libertarians were happy that there were laws and rules protecting them, and police to enforce them, if necessary.





    Just had to add this priceless picture. It's worth a thousand garbled, shouted words.




    We could not have achieved what we have as solitary creatures. That's the thing that "rugged individualists" don't get. Their bug-out bag is stuffed with clever devices they could never make and their SHTF cabin is stocked with goods which only sophisticated factories, coordinated supply chains and regulated economise can produce.

    Humans are social carnivores. We don't eat each other. Humans who behave like solitary carnivores are called sociopaths and their behaviour ranges from arrogance through parasitism to serial murder.

    At this point in history, the moderate and far-right seem to attract sociopaths, either as overt members or as clandestine predators.
    Last edited by Nicker; 26th May 2024 at 17:00.

  16. #17641
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicker View Post
    At this point in history, the moderate and far-right seem to attract sociopaths, either as overt members or as clandestine predators.
    They think they can use "law&order" model to impress people full of rage and fear and than manipolate them for their own good, because there'no more gullible man than the one full of rage and fear.
    It's just that: they're predators as you put it and really proud to be so.

    They know "law&order" model can't never guarantee anything other than this kind of easy prey, in fact if it will work they'll be the ones enraged.....

  17. #17642
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...ing-rcna154132

    When reached for comment, a Trump campaign spokesperson pointed to the former president's post to Truth Social.

    "The reason I didnít file paperwork for the Libertarian Nomination, which I would have absolutely gotten if I wanted it (as everyone could tell by the enthusiasm of the Crowd last night!), was the fact that, as the Republican Nominee, I am not allowed to have the Nomination of another Party," Trump said in the post.
    Trump's such a predictable giant baby. He can't deal with anyone else having anything he can't have, so if there's a Libertarian nominee who's not him, Trump needs to make it about himself and how "if I wanted it" he could totally have been their leader, with a very obvious passive aggressive tone.

  18. #17643
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2024
    Location: Egyptian Afterlife
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    That's the problem, they think selfdom is the same of mindless selfishness. And so they evolve to embrace a "tailored around personal property" Pinochet-like authoritarism.
    For this kind of people libertarian principles are just a good ideology to push politically because "freedom!!!1111" but they're rotten to the core (see Milei in Argentina)
    I think I might prefer Pinochet authoritarian attitude than Fidel Castro planning on sinking another country (see Cuba woes right about now) back then.
    Fidel? No thanks, sure some people died, but there were Cuban soldiers around the country at that time.

    And about Milei, can't you see that Cristina Fernandez and Kirchner sunk the country into a massive debt ordeal?

    Milei is having to stop the internal waste of money on a gigantic obsolete state machine paying for people "working" doing absolutely nothing all day but living at the expense of the government.
    He might be uncanny but he is right in doing so, with the internal state promoting that money sink hole.

    Not even the CCCP/USSR government paid people to do nothing all day, that is what latin american commies believe (wrongfully I might add) they did.
    Last edited by DuatDweller; 26th May 2024 at 19:37. Reason: might / not night

  19. #17644
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Mossad Time Machine
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    If I could, I would redefine libertarian to mean pursuing maximum overall liberty, the most liberty for the greatest number of people. Not freedom from governance, which produces maximum liberty for only a privileged few.
    That sounds pretty much like the actual meaning of libertarian, which I suspect has been contaminated over the years by Libertarians.

  20. #17645
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Well, libertarians typically have a very strong darwinist mindset, so it's where they merge into aristocratic conservatism, they're just not interested in the next person if not a tool for their interests (where cons see the next person as a tool for the status quo maintenance).
    They like to think and say that IF everyone has the same self-centered attitude the system would eventually reach an equilibrium point that can satisfy all.....the survived ones.
    Last edited by lowenz; 27th May 2024 at 03:31.

  21. #17646
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    They like to think and say that IF everyone has the same self-centered attitude the system would eventually reach an equilibrium point that can satisfy all.....the survived ones.
    That anarchic equilibrium, if it were ever actually achieved, would quickly decay into feudalism, which is the natural political structure of human societies. Escaping feudalism was what the War of Independence was about. And protecting that victory is what this moment in history is about. Not just for the USA. The warlords want the return of the king, hoping to either be or to control that king.


    If Libertarianism had real viability it would be a much larger movement with a cohesive platform (which would require more centralised decision making and authority). If it stays true to its principles, it cannot do that. But even when it shows a modicum of popular support, corrupt elements will try to infiltrate and use it, like the MAGAts did at the convention.

    While all political movements are not created equally, they will all be equally subject to criminal exploitation. How well they resist, is the real measure of their strength.

  22. #17647
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Yes but the particular, specific problem of the libertarian model is the darwinistic approach to the anarchy: in fact it's the polar opposite of socialist anarchy where there's no need of competition - or elimination - to select the best elements for an aspect of society.

  23. #17648
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Quote Originally Posted by DuatDweller View Post
    Wasn't Hitler and Maduro voted in to power, and them bang, surprise, dictatorship.
    You know one thing I can never discern is politics, they're way to messed up.
    That or they (politics) give me gasses.
    Hitler never won an elected position, he was appointed as Chancellor.

    So it was basically like a cabinet post in the USA - you don't "vote" for Secretary of State. In the US context it would in fact be like the Secretary of State somehow wrangling things to turn themselves into a dictator.

    Also keep in mind while the Nazis did win the "most" seats in the previous election - they only got about a third of the total seats in 1932.

    So neither Hitler not the Nazis actually needed to win an election to get into power. They exploited a fragmented situation and used intimidation to be awarded power, which they then immediately used to eliminate everyone who could oppose them.
    Last edited by Cipheron; 27th May 2024 at 20:20.

  24. #17649
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicker View Post
    Strawman harder, Bucko.

    If Hillary had been president, the policies and protocols, carefully crafted by MEDICAL PRODFESSIONALS, under Obama, would have been enacted and the one million plus who died would have been a fraction of that. Instead we got tRump telling people to inject bleach and shove sunlamps where the sun don't shine.

    You Orange Hero disrupted Fauci and the actual experts at every step.
    You know the funny one?

    They've been claiming there would be another pandemic this year because there's an election. Apparently this one will help Biden, because he's the incumbent. But ... why did Trump not benefit from being the incumbent then? does the incumbent benefit from a pandemic or are they harmed by a pandemic? they can't keep their story straight.

    By saying that Biden would have *benefited* from there being a pandemic in 2024 they're tacitly admitting that Biden could have a detailed and coordinated response that boosts his re-election chances. What does that say about how Trump handled it, however?

    So no, there BEING a pandemic didn't hurt Trump, any more than there being a pandemic this year would help Biden, according to the same people. What hurts or helps the candidate is what they say about it and what they do about it.

  25. #17650
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: The other Derry
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    What strikes me about libertarians is that they often speak as if the slightest restriction on their personal space is the same as a Stalinesque totalitarian hellscape, no matter the justification, which might be reasonable to most people, it's not restricting any fundamental right, and we're in a democracy after all.

    I also oppose Stalinesque totalitarian hellscapes as much as the next guy, but some problems can't be solved without some kind of social coordination or regulation, and it's no good pretending a problem doesn't exist or will just go away on its own if people close their eyes and trust everything will be okay because "we're the greatest country in the history of history" or whatever... as if the earth's climate or a pandemic care.

    But it is bizarre for Trump to be a posterchild for libertarianism for some people, although I still think the Christian right supporting him is even more bizarre... thinking the anti-abortion candidate is the one that I'm about ready to bet has paid for more abortions than every other US president combined.
    Trump stacked the courts with social conservatives, many of whom are activists. I think that's the reason why most of the Christian right is supporting him. But there's also some nutters out there who think he's some kind of messianic figure anointed by God.

    Quote Originally Posted by SD View Post
    That sounds pretty much like the actual meaning of libertarian, which I suspect has been contaminated over the years by Libertarians.
    Most libertarians I mention that to agree with it as a goal, but don't agree to pursuit it because it requires government to actively balance the interests of different groups, provide opportunities, and prevent individuals from exploiting others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cipheron View Post
    You know the funny one?

    They've been claiming there would be another pandemic this year because there's an election. Apparently this one will help Biden, because he's the incumbent. But ... why did Trump not benefit from being the incumbent then? does the incumbent benefit from a pandemic or are they harmed by a pandemic? they can't keep their story straight.

    By saying that Biden would have *benefited* from there being a pandemic in 2024 they're tacitly admitting that Biden could have a detailed and coordinated response that boosts his re-election chances. What does that say about how Trump handled it, however?

    So no, there BEING a pandemic didn't hurt Trump, any more than there being a pandemic this year would help Biden, according to the same people. What hurts or helps the candidate is what they say about it and what they do about it.
    The Biden administration will use the pandemic to lock everyone up at home, so it will be a mail-in voting free-for-all with no eligibility and identity checks, and there will be massive election fraud that will keep Biden in office. I think that's the theory.

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