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Thread: Phoenix Point

  1. #76
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2006
    They said they're ready to refund a 100% of everything they got from people - this is over $2m in total. Want to take bets just how much money Epic were willing to spend to bribe them into Epic Store exclusivity if they can give back $2m and still be able to continue on? That also means that they made this decision fully prepared to piss off all the people without whom this project would have never been possible in the first place. This is disgusting. I was looking forward to this game but I won't be supporting those kinds of shenanigans.

  2. #77
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    I've backed a lot of KS projects and not many have offered refunds on the spot. I think they should have given those who backed it a Steam option, or a free Steam key after the exclusivity period passes. A year goes by pretty quick.

    Majority of the KS projects I've backed told people to go jump (essentially) when refunds were requested.

  3. #78
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    That's what they've ended up doing after the backlash. If you backed the game, you get the game on the Epic store on release, a year's worth of DLC free, and then a code for it on Steam or GOG when the year-long exclusivity deal ends.
    Also, it wasn't a Kickstarter campaign, but a Fig one. And a few people have raised an interesting ethical conundrum related to that.
    Basically, Fig allows backers to invest in a project, essentially becoming shareholders. So the amount of genuine sales of the game after release could end up literally paying dividends to high-end backers.
    But in taking enough money from Epic so that they could have every backer ask for a refund and still be in the black (as noted by a developer), does this effectively mean they've stiffed their investors?

    I'm not cancelling my pledge, but this whole thing has left a very nasty taste in my mouth, and it's unfortunately tarnishing Julian Gollop's reputation.
    Last edited by Malf; 15th Mar 2019 at 04:01.

  4. #79
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Ah that's right. My bad. Backed so much stuff over time, that I lose track of which is with what. Majority were KS ones.

  5. #80
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Malf View Post
    Also, it wasn't a Kickstarter campaign, but a Fig one. And a few people have raised an interesting ethical conundrum related to that.
    Basically, Fig allows backers to invest in a project, essentially becoming shareholders. So the amount of genuine sales of the game after release could end up literally paying dividends to high-end backers.
    But in taking enough money from Epic so that they could have every backer ask for a refund and still be in the black (as noted by a developer), does this effectively mean they've stiffed their investors?
    Apparently, the money they get from Epic will count as revenue and therefore contribute to FIG investors' returns. So effectively this means the investors probably got the best end out of this deal, since the negative publicity doesn't affect them directly.

  6. #81
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    This doesn't really bother me that much. Sure, it's annoying, I wanted to get it on GOG, but I can't fault a developer for wanting to get more money to make their game, especially when they don't have to compromise much except what storefront you're using.

  7. #82
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    And suffer the huge backwash of vitriol from the hordes of toxic players in places like /r/pcgaming.

  8. #83
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    So I went through their AMA and a few articles and speculation on various forums, and I basically got the following out of it:

    * Snapshot Games first approached Epic about putting the game on Epic's store, at which point Epic presumably offered them the deal.
    * They signed an NDA before negotiations started, which they say is the reason they didn't tell backers about the deal beforehand.
    * The deal apparently guarantees a minimum amount of sales on the store. What that amount is nobody knows publicly, but presumably it's more than they expected to sell on Steam. No mention what else the deal could entail.
    * According to Snapshot Games, the deal will allow them to continue development and support the game for several years, including adding some of the features not reached in the crowdfunding campaign, such as underwater missions. No mention how many is several.
    * There will be at least 3 major DLC given free for the backers plus some additional content updates. No mention how big is major.
    * The first DLC will be a sea-base/missions pack. Other content will include new storylines, factions, alien threats and game mechanics.
    * They will give some limited support for modding post-release, but not before the first major DLC is finished.
    * Apart from requiring the Epic store launcher to be downloaded, the game will otherwise be DRM-free and not require the launcher to run.
    * When it releases on GOG and Steam, backers will get to choose either a GOG or a Steam key that includes all the DLC released meanwhile. Don't see why not both, personally. It's unlikely to placate the most angry part of the backers, but people who are staying on board like me would undoubtedly see it as a positive step.
    * Refunds are offered through Transferwise, but apparently you can also request one directly from Fig.
    * About 3% of people had requested a refund by the time of the AMA and they expect it to rise to 5-6% in total.
    * Apparently, they have enough cash to give refunds to every backer, if needed. If it's true, it would mean they probably also got some advance money from Epic out of the deal.

  9. #84
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Due to an error by the Phoenix Point team, I got sent a $10 coupon for the season pass for the game, which is available on their website (the pass). As I am a backer of the game, I get that for free anyway, so if anyone here would like the $10 coupon for use towards it, send me a PM.

  10. #85
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    And taken by Renz .

  11. #86
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    I will use this money to shoot the crab people.

  12. #87
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    And the game is out today. Installing as we speak. Been looking forward to having a play of this one. Expect to see video streams.

  13. #88
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Some gameplay:





    Overall the game seems pretty good so far. Though I still don't quite get how chance to hit works in it.

  14. #89
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    Though I still don't quite get how chance to hit works in it.
    It seemed pretty straightforward to me. 100% chance to land a bullet in the big grey circle, 50% chance to land one in the yellow. Think of it as trying to simulate all the tiny movements you'll make with your arms while shooting a semi-auto rifle.

  15. #90
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    I had a quick go last night, and was pretty impressed by what I played. While I backed it, I avoided playing any of the alpha or beta releases, so this was my first time.
    I managed to play enough to get out of the tutorial, and what has immediately struck me is that it feels more stable and less restrictive than XCOM/XCOM 2.
    It's hard to pin down what I mean by stability, but I always found XCOM 1 & 2 felt like they were on the verge of crashing. Animation that didn't respond immediately, long load times, the occasional stuck turn, those sorts of little niggles.
    So far, there's none of that in Phoenix Point, and it feels really slick thanks to that.

    The management stuff is a little intimidating at the moment, and unless I've misunderstood it, I'm not sure I like the idea of skill points being shared between soldiers.
    But it's not enough to turn me off of it, and I'm very happy it's turned out so well

  16. #91
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Same here Malf. Went in completely blind (besides watching one quick battle video a year or so ago). Just the way I prefer it with games like these . Did the exact same with Satelite Reign.

  17. #92
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    Yeah, same here, and I loved Satellite Reign, especially in co-op. I think the only crowdfunded thing I backed where I did take advantage of early access was Divinity Original Sin.

  18. #93
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    I've played Hades on and off while it's been in Early Access (I think the actual release is planned for early 2020), and it's a game where I actually enjoy seeing what is added, tweaked and otherwise changed. Was Dead Cells also EA? If so, I think I played that one before its proper release as well. However, these are games that you can easily dip in and enjoy, and neither has much of a focus on story. For me, taking part in EA actually added to the experience, because I could get a fun glimpse of how the games are developing but that's also because I didn't risk burning out on aspects that were frustrating or having the entire plot spoiled.

  19. #94
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirith View Post
    Was Dead Cells also EA? If so, I think I played that one before its proper release as well.
    It was. They changed a TON between when I hopped on and release.

  20. #95
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    So I'm quite a bit further into the game now, and this is excellent. Hard as hell, but there is just so much going on. And you get some damn fine upgrades for being allied with factions.

    So much management going on, that I had to setup a spreadsheet to keep track of it all. Never had to do that, in a XCOM-like game before. Working out what classes to have per squad, what ships to use, whether to steal them or make them, what gear to make, what weapons to use with which classes etc etc. Compare that to the XCOM's prior, and they all did the tried and tested formula of hunting down xeno's, getting their gear and researching it. Then you get better weapons from there.

    In this one, you don't get new weapons out of it. Or not that I've seen, besides a few instances. It's via your alliances that you instantly get whatever tech they currently have researched. Through that you get better tech and so on. But then the quickest and cheapest way to get more ships (having LOTS of ships and plenty of squads is essential in this game) is via stealing them from your allies. But then doing so, lowers your rep rating with them (gained bit by bit over time via missions and choices). Decisions, decisions.

    And now manufacturing and research are all done on a global level only. So if you have multiple bases, all they do is lower the time it takes to do things (eg the more research centers you have, the faster research takes, and the same goes for fabrication plants which lower the time it takes to manufacture stuff). You also need to be out scouting for new locations, more resources (which you can trade with allies). All the while you need to be taking out alien bases when they appear, but your already juggling so many things which is why you need more ships and squads.

    So much going on. I've noticed that this is one of those games, that if you play it just before going to bed, then you'll not be able to get to sleep for ages as your still thinking about all the micromanagement lol.

  21. #96
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    And after posting the above, a few hours later my saves got corrupted on one specific mission. As soon as I'd kill a specific enemy, any saves done in that mission would be corrupted. Luckily I do have saves from before that, but I think I'll play something else for a few days (as Phoenix Point has been all I've been playing for the past week).

  22. #97
    Taking the Death Toll
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: ideally far away
    It's been an absolute disaster for me. I was a backer. The backer builds performed better than this mess.

    Half the time I launch the game it crashes on startup – I get a black screen, nothing happens, I click and it crashes.

    Another time it crashed when I tabbed out.

    Another time it crashed when I clicked the options button on the main menu.

    Several times it’s crashed while loading the main menu.

    Another time it crashed while loading the tutorial.

    All this with multiple crash-on-startups in between.

    Eventually I did manage to get the tutorial mission to load -- though it took so long that I thought it'd locked up for a minute. I decided to try my gamepad to see how the controls went. It immediately started scrolling down, like the thumbstick was being held down. I unplugged the controller and the screen started to shake uncontrollably. I hit escape – crash.

    I was really excited for this game, I bought the $80 Signature Edition. I didn’t even mind all that much that they drank the EGS koolaid. But so far it’s been a disappointment. I haven’t even gotten to play it. So I went back to Fallout 76. Say what you will about FO76, at least that game functions.

  23. #98
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    My suggestion would be to wait till the big patch hits, which is in the works currently. Unsure of when it's set for release though.

    Or wait till next year, when all the DLC is set to come out.

  24. #99
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    So this game is horribly unbalanced. The Xeno's are wayyyyyyyyyyyy too hard, even at lower difficulty modes. Some of the maps have taken me an entire day (literally) of retrying until I've managed to beat them. It's not even a matter of getting better gear. It's just that the enemies are so powerful and have such good AI that you get massacred. Often. If this were like the other XCOM-like games, where you could get more troops easily then cool. But in this game no, it requires A LOT of resources. So you don't want deaths. You want to save scum, and save scum heaps.

    I've been playing this game for about 2 weeks now, and whilst it's great, and I'd say that if you love XCOM style games then you should definitely play this. It's just too hard, and the attacks that you need to go defend against are so often, that it makes progress very slow. I feel like I've only made moderate progress in the game.

    In better news, the first big patch was released just now, which fixes a heap of stuff. Does not at all address game balancing however. The enemy AI + amounts you get attacked by needs a MAJOR nerf, and the Pandoran Colony missions need major nerfing.

    Patch Notes:

    GAMEPLAY CHANGES

    Return Fire:

    * Dazed targets no longer return fire
    * Only enemies who are targeted by an attack can return fire
    * Return fire is no longer a half burst for some weapons - all weapons now return fire with a full burst

    Ambush Missions:

    * Ambush missions should occur less frequently

    Pandorans:

    * Some Pandorans have their perception slightly increased. Affected Pandorans may now detect the player’s units more easily

    Scavenging Missions

    * Scavenging missions should now have slightly more variety in the type of enemies encountered

    Spotting:

    * Soldiers now stop every time they detect an enemy regardless of range (previously, they only stopped if the spotted enemy was close)

    Mind Control:

    * The “Recover Will” ability can no longer be used while simultaneously mind controlling another unit. The effect of this is that Sirens will no longer permanently be able to keep soldiers under mind control.

    Story Missions:

    * Adjusted difficulty on some story missions to better match up with when the player encounters them in a usual campaign flow

    General UI improvements:

    * Restart Game, Exit to the Main Menu and Quit to Desktop now trigger a confirmation pop-up, instead of merely restarting, quitting to the main menu, and quitting the game, respectively

    Cover detection:

    * Generally, more tall objects are detected as high cover, and more low objects detected as low cover on the tactical maps

    MAJOR FIXES:

    * Fixed a bug where soldiers were sometimes dying when finishing a Jet Jump
    * Fixed a bug where sabotage missions sometimes did not end if soldiers were evacuated
    * Fixed a bug where the game could freeze if a soldier died during an overwatch shot
    * Fixed a bug where sometimes Raid Resources mission did not grant any resources
    * Fixed a bug where the game could crash on launch in some locations
    * Fixed some extremely rare problems with game saves
    * Fixed a bug where sometimes the Citadel mission was finishing instantly
    * Fixed a bug that in some cases was preventing the player from finishing the last mission of the game when allied with Disciples of Anu
    * Fixed a bug where you could recruit or trade from havens, even though the leader was hostile. Now, if the leader is hostile to the Phoenix Project, trade and recruitment are not possible.

    OTHER FIXES:

    * Fixed a localization bug for the Chinese Language
    * Fixed a rare bug where the game can get stuck after a barrel explosion
    * Fixed a problem where sometimes interaction with consoles was not available
    * Fixed a problem where sometimes the game gets stuck when a Chiron is in Stability Stance
    * Fixed a bug where using Remove Mindfragger ability on a soldier controlled by a Siren was causing the game to get stuck
    * Fixed a rare bug that was causing the game to get stuck when a Quick Save is made while a soldier is panicked
    * Fixed a bug where sometimes the OK button on the replenish screen after a mission was not working
    * Fixed a bug where occasionally the game got stuck when a siren tries to mind control a vehicle
    * Fixed some collision detection bugs on some maps
    * Fixed a bug causing Sirens to appear in Nest missions
    * Fixed a bug on one of the story missions that was causing the objective to be destroyed
    * Fixed a bug where the Mind Control ability was not showing when the head of the Siren was targeted in Free Aim mode
    * Fixed a bug where sometimes leaving a haven defense on the first turn was causing the haven to be destroyed
    * Fixed an issue where enemy turn music keeps playing during the player’s turn
    * Fixed a bug where failing to finish the mission in the Geoscape tutorial was causing the game to get stuck
    * Fixed a bug where recruiting a Mutog on Legendary difficulty caused it to have no 3D model
    * Fixed a bug where recruited vehicles on Legendary difficulty had no weapons
    * Fixed a bug with the Bombardier ability not providing the correct bonuses
    * Fixed an issue that was causing the Mutog to not be able to evacuate
    * Fixed an extremely rare bug causing all sites on the globe to be revealed
    * Fixed a bug that caused Bash ability to be available for the Technician Robotic Arms
    * Fixed a bug causing Boom Blast ability to not interact correctly with some other abilities
    * Fixed a bug causing some players to not be able to activate the Living Weapons DLC
    * Fixed sound issues with voices, dialogs, and effects
    * Fixed problems with some weapons not reloading fully and/or starting without a full magazine
    * Fixed a bug where loading an autosave before an ambush mission was not triggering the ambush again
    * Fixed an issue with the description of the Adrenaline Rush ability, not reflecting that it also reduces accuracy
    * Fixed some problems with missing text
    * Fixed small issues with missing UI sounds
    Last edited by icemann; 16th Dec 2019 at 10:37.

  25. #100
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    Yeah, I've ended up cheating quite a bit using the developer console after a couple of failed attempts playing normally, and this is on Rookie.
    It starts out okay, but it just scales up far too quickly while not providing you with enough resources to meet the escalating demand. And research and manufacturing also struggle to keep up with the pace, let alone recruitment. You're almost guaranteed to lose at least one grunt per mission, and you can't research and manufacture better equipment fast enough to keep them alive.
    I suspect its been balanced using feedback from early access players, where the hardcore difficulty fetishists are always the loudest.

    Since cheating, I've discovered that it's VERY easy to complete the Steal Research missions as long as you have a couple of assault guys with high movement and willpower. Using the Dash ability, you can get all three research points in one turn before the enemy even has time to react.
    Of course, the downside of that is that you get a negative reputation with the faction you're stealing from.

    It would be interesting to see what mods would have popped up if this had shipped, like XCOM 1 & 2, with Steam Workshop support.
    Nothing's available for it on Nexus Mods, which makes me think the game's not very moddable at the moment, which is odd for a Unity game.

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