TTLG|Thief|Bioshock|System Shock|Deus Ex|Mobile
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 51

Thread: Destiny 2 - MMOFPS-ARPG - PC/PS4/XB1 - Oct 24th/Sept 6th.

  1. #26
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    If the first Destiny on PS4 is anything to go by, the community's pretty friendly; I played with randoms fairly often and never had a bad experience. At worst we played next to rather than with each other, but my impression is that tight cooperation isn't all that important anyway.

    I'll be playing D2 on PS4 every now and then for half an hour or so in the evenings, if you ever want to team up. I've only just started, though.

  2. #27
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    Did a couple of raids last night. Finished off a Spire of Stars run that we started on Friday night, then did a prestige Leviathan run.

    Raids in Destiny 2 require a lot of communication, and have some really weird mechanics.

    I'll explain the last phase of Spire of Stars, and only that, because if I had to explain every phase of every raid, I'd be here for days.

    Spire of Stars we needed to finish after bungling the last phase numerous times on Friday night. I hate to admit it, but I think the main reason we failed so much was down to one poor player who got replaced last night. We finished it off on the second attempt, where Friday night we were banging our collective heads against the wall for 3-4 hours.

    Spire is probably the most complicated raid in the game, and definitely the most complex raid in any game I've ever played.

    The idea is that Emperor Calus of the Cabal is being attacked by the Red Legion (another faction of the Cabal, and the main antagonists of the Destiny 2 campaign).
    He has somehow managed to get the Guardians to fight for him (previous raids and quests explain this), and this last phase involves the guardians attempting to destroy an attacking Cabal fleet while fighting off a boarding party (at least that's the way I understand it).

    But of course, you can't just have a trigger to pull. No, that would be far too easy.

    Instead, after fighting off an initial wave of Cabal, the big bad guy stood on the building in the middle of the arena blasts out a field of energy that engulfs all the players. This applies a debuff called Greed, which if it stays on a player for 10 seconds, instantly kills them. At this point, a ball of energy will be spat out and has to be passed from each player to the next, with the final player to touch the ball then throwing it at the big bad. After passing the ball, the Greed debuff is removed.

    This triggers another wave of enemies, after which four team members have to stand on four circular pads that trigger a beam of light that acts as an elevator.

    At that point, one team member, and one team member only, can go up the beam of light, whereupon they'll find themselves inside a holographic representation of space with several enemy ships. But not just any player can go up; out of the team of six, three random players will get a buff called "Superior Retainer". Only one of those players can go up. We call this player the scout.

    We play this with 4 people designated to particular pads, with the remaining two players roaming. This usually guarantees that at least one roamer gets the buff, and so they can go up the beam of light.

    Two of these ships will have symbols above them, commonly referred to as square, circle and triangle. The player shouts out the symbols, and if it weren't complicated already, this is where it starts to get nasty.

    In the centre of the arena is the squat 3-sided building with doors on each side that the big bad guy is stood on top of. In front of these doors are mosaics with the symbols on that the scout called out.
    Two balls of energy will be spat out to the elevator pads, which must then be charged by carrying them through pillars of mist on top of the squat building. These balls must then be thrown through the doors that correspond with the symbols called out by the scout earlier. However, for the doors to open, players must be stood on all three mosaics. And to make things doubly worse, if this is not done in a timely fashion, a massive bombardment is triggered killing every player.

    Once the balls have been thrown through the doors, more balls will be spat out, and now two of the players with the Superior Retainer buff need to charge a ball with mist, go up the elevator, then chuck their ball at one of the ships with the symbol above it. Of course, that means that if one or more of the Superior Retainer players are on an elevator pads, one or both of the roamers will have to stand on their pad while they go up the pillar of light.

    This then triggers what we call the ball-passing phase.
    We split the team in to three, one player, then three, then two. A ball will be spat out once again, which again needs to be charged. This applies the Greed debuff, so the single player picks it up, charges it, then passes it to the group of three, whereupon they start juggling it between them in order to not die from greed. Once one ball is out, another gets spat out. The single player once again charges it with mist, then passes it to the group of two, who start passing it between themselves. Then a final ball gets spat out, which the single player picks up and charges.

    About five seconds after the last ball is charged, the big bad will raise his hand in the air, which will then glow purple, which is the signal for each player holding a ball to throw it at his hand. This takes down his shield, at which point you've got ~10-15 seconds to do damage to him.

    It's really hard to kill him outright in this phase, so the whole rigmarole starts again.

    So once you've done this dance a second time, you'll get him down to his last sliver of health, whereupon he triggers an emergency shield and six balls are spat out. Each player needs to pick up a ball (and not more than one), then throw it at him. If you've done this right, you should be able to kill him. If not? Yeah, you've got another phase to repeat. I think. Or you may instantly die? Dunno, things get hazy around about this point.

    Oh yeah, and in case it wasn't apparent, during each and every one of these steps, you're having to fight of waves of Cabal.

    Needless to say, the poor guy whose first time it was on Friday couldn't quite get to grips with the whole thing. Last night, when he was replaced by someone who'd played Spire of Stars before, it went really smoothly.

    Oh, and there's a hard mode as well, which we had a go at recently, but couldn't quite finish. That one applies various nasty modifiers such as weapon restrictions, tougher enemies and amplified elemental damage.

    Yeah, that's for the masochists out there.

  3. #28
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Okay, that does sound a lot more involved than my memories of the first Destiny. In your experience, though, is that kind of cooperation needed any time before the endgame content? When I played Destiny, I rarely if ever ran into any major obstacles; I did die a couple of times, but on the whole I could play the game pretty well as a single-player experience. Coop was a nice diversion, but it never really felt necessary for the plot missions.

    What you're describing sounds a lot like MMO raids, though, which isn't a gameplay style I know particularly well. Is there much (or any) space for improvisation in the coop/raid gameplay?

  4. #29
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    Nah, that style of gameplay is pretty much exclusive to the raids. And no, they're not very flexible. If you don't perform each step the way it's prescribed, you're going to fail. More than which, there are few to no cues as to what you're supposed to do, and Bungie offer little to no help when releasing a raid. So the first time a raid is played, you will fail as you won't know what the hell you are meant to be doing. Only after hours of repetition and consultation with other raiders will players define the pattern.

    Seriously, while it's less complex, some of the stuff in Leviathan had me completely baffled as to how players figured out what to do. There's one phase in a garden with dogs, flowers and beams of light that is so opaque it might as well be a wall.

    I don't think I have the patience to be one of the first people to play a raid and puzzle this stuff out. I mean, these puzzles would be complicated enough if a single player were able to do them, but to make it so that six people have to coordinate their actions?
    Yeah, that's an exercise in wrangling cats.

    It's complicated enough even when everyone knows what they're supposed to be doing. Going in blind takes a special kind of bloody-mindedness.

  5. #30
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Coordinating six people is an exercise in wrangling cats? I take it you didn't play vanilla WoW, then.

  6. #31
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    Yeah, I had a go at a 40-man raid back in the day. It was less about coordinating people's actions and more about making sure they all turned up
    In Destiny 2, when things go smoothly, the individual phases of a raid shouldn't take more than 5-10 minutes each. But that's reliant on everyone knowing what to do and at what time.

    Don't get me wrong, raids in traditional MMOs like WoW can be really complicated too, but at least there are usually hints about what to do.

    Destiny 2 doesn't have any of that. Seriously, in some of the phases, if you didn't know what to do because someone else had told you, you'd struggle to even start the encounter.

    For example, in the final Leviathan phase, you get to Calus, who's sat on a pedestal drinking from a goblet. Shooting him doesn't start it. Shooting his goblet however? Yeah, that pisses him off.
    There's no indication as to that being the way to start things off whatsoever, and that's one of the more obvious things.

    It's hard to describe without you playing, but these things have been turned into almost ARGs with communities poring over them to eke out all of the secrets and then share the information.

    There is one mission outside of raids that is end game content that also contains a bunch of really obscure stuff, and that's the recently discovered secret mission to get the exotic sniper rifle "Whisper of the Worm".
    Getting the rifle itself is fairly straightforward, if bastard-hard, but there's also a blueprint for a ship hidden away in the level. And to get that involves a convoluted jumping puzzle ending in the player shooting a series of lights in a specific order that is a sequence of numbers relating to something called The Vault of Glass in the first game.
    Again, no indication as to what the solution might be, or even that you're supposed to shoot the lights at all (they sit there doing a fairly convincing Close Encounters impersonation if left unmolested), just a locked chest and a confused player.

    I don't think I've ever seen something like this in this kind of game before that dictates that you go outside of the game to find a solution.

    A large part of me thinks it's lazy game design, extending the time people are playing purely through being ridiculously obscure, but there's a smaller, begrudging side of me that sees how this kind of thing can also pull the game's community together.

  7. #32
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    You guys know how proper MMOs on PC typically get the smaller regular new content offerings for free? You need to buy 2nd season pass for $35 USD to access industry-wide standardised shit during Year 2 of Destiny 2. These offerings will have ZERO new story content and ZERO new worlds.

    The Division had a shit launch, the game was reportedly a broken mess upon release. Ubisoft fix the game and address player criticisms, they give players heap of new content for free as an incentive to return. 2 years later and the game is fairly decent. Reportedly the same story for No Man's Sky, they gave players a lot of new content for free too to win them back. Also Ubisoft announces that all Year 1 expansion content for The Division 2 will be free.

    Bungie's reaction to a bad launch of their MMOs:- charge a high premium of $40 for the big Year 2 expansion which is supposed to "fix everything" and require players to own all of the shitty year 1 expansions. Also this time they're doubling-down:- you have buy a 2nd season pass in addition to the big Year 2 expansion to keep up with the Jones'.

  8. #33
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    I'd say that's more Activision's style of dealing with things than Bungie. Because they're Activision, and deserve a deeper sub-level of hell than whatever the people with the pitchforks outside EA's studios are threatening them with.

    Anyway, I'm glad I got Destiny 2 for 3 quid. I'd feel bad for Bungie, but they knew what they were getting into with the retarded capitalistic half of Actard.

  9. #34
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    I'd also argue that the game wasn't broken and that this was just Internet hyperbole, but then I would realise I'm trying to debate with EvaUnit02, whose posts consist 99% of bitching about games he's never played and 1% posting torture porn screengrabs.

  10. #35
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    On a completely different note: I'm not sure what the jump is like for other classes, but I absolutely love the feel of the Warlock's jump&glide moves. There's something so enjoyable about having more vertical movement options in a game like this. It may sound like a small thing, but it's one of the main reasons why I enjoyed Destiny and why I'm enjoying the sequel (apart from getting it for free on PS4, that is): it's fun to traverse the locations thanks to perfectly tuned movement.

  11. #36
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    The Warlock's got a couple ways to change that movement too, and the subclass unlock has a fairly... unintuitive teleport option that I switched out of in a jiffy. It's definitely a well-tuned game, I just can't shake the feeling of its levels being like these compressed dioramas instead of actual breathing environments. But I can get over that when the mechanics of popping heads are pretty satisfying anyway (I see shades of Halo's original '30 seconds of fun' principle in the combat).

  12. #37
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Oh, absolutely. The game feels like a bunch of sci-fi sets, not like a world. Those sets are gorgeous, though.

    Errant Signal did a video on the first Destiny a few years ago, and I think he absolutely nailed the appeal of the game. For the most part Destiny is immensely shallow, but by and large it knows what it is, it knows what its strengths are and it knows how to play to them.

  13. #38
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Malf View Post
    I'd also argue that the game wasn't broken and that this was just Internet hyperbole, but then I would realise I'm trying to debate with EvaUnit02, whose posts consist 99% of bitching about games he's never played and 1% posting torture porn screengrabs.
    Hence me putting "fix everything" in quotes, you fucking muppet. The game wasn't broken in a technical sense, correct. The key problem was its game design at launch was that it was heavily geared towards casuals and neglected the desires of more hardcore gamers. There was a lack of a grind; they didn't gatekept high level loot (i.e. not have have drops exclusive to end game modes like Raids and Nightfall Strikes); had fixed loot attribute rolls; etc.

    This had a huge impact on player retention. Being that Destiny 2 is ARPG, a genre all about getting loot, there's little incentive to keep playing long-term once you've gotten the best swag. There were shit loads of articles in late 2017/early 2018 about the game's huge player drop off. Here's some examples:-
    https://www.gamewatcher.com/news/201...-since-launch#
    https://dotesports.com/the-op/news/d...e-reddit-19936
    Last edited by EvaUnit02; 10th Sep 2018 at 14:53.

  14. #39
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    Yes, but if you'd played as part of the PC community, you would understand that retention there was a lot better, because expectations were different due to the vast majority of players never having played Destiny 1.
    Destiny 2 was fine prior to Forsaken. A little bit vacuous, sure, but some of the best shooting out there. And certainly not broken unless you go by the obnoxious demands of stay-at-home, 24/7 MMO players who are obsessed with power-gating games so only a tiny minority can enjoy them.

    Now Forsaken's dropped? It's fantastic.

    And did you really just refer to yourself in the third person?

  15. #40
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    Anyway, ignoring all that, let's get back to talk about the game itself.

    So Forsaken has dropped, and I really didn't know what to expect. I thought maybe an explorable area, some new activities, gear and some strikes and a raid.
    And yeah, all that stuff is there.

    What I wasn't expecting is one of the most intriguing maps I've played in a long time.

    So the expansion starts with a bombastic, if formulaic, mission ending in the death of Cayde6.
    This sets the tone for a series of story missions focussed on taking out each of the "Barons" associated with the event blocked out above on a wild frontier zone called The Tangled Shore. There's plenty of places to poke your nose in to, events to get involved in and bad guys to shoot. There's even an alien disco party to crash. It's a fun time, and the main story all takes place here. So far, so Destiny 2.

    Then the story "ends".

    And cue the Dreaming City.
    And damn, if Bungie haven't gone all out on this area. While there are still a few recognisable cues on the map screen, this area almost completely does away with any hand-holding. You're given a vague outline of a task to do, with no direction on how to accomplish it whatsoever (aside from the occasional very cryptic text note), then told to explore.

    It's bastard-hard at first thanks to enemy power levels being significantly higher than yours. And yeah, this is Bungie implementing yet another power level grind, for sure.

    But once you've got a few new pieces of gear, things start to open up. You start collecting trinkets that have only vague instructions on their use. Holographic bonsai trees; mysterious dark tinctures; shards of dark crystal. And through experimentation, exploration and communication, you gradually start to peel back the layers of mystery. You find uses for each of those items and more. Secrets are revealed where there were apparently none before. You'll gain chances to improve your character by enduring a gruelling yet rewarding horde mode with your clan mates. You'll slowly gain the ability to explore previously lethal areas, and find even more mysteries contained within. Exploring the map to its limits will reveal cunningly hidden lore and the occasional cat statue promising rewards if you only have the right offering.

    And all of this will serve to make you really examine every detail carefully. Sure, maybe you'll read meaning in to things that ultimately have no meaning, but maybe, just maybe you'll discover something really cool.

    It's utterly superb world building, and encourages you to grab a friend or two and simply explore.

    On top of this, you've got the new 4v4 PvEvP mode, Gambit, which is my favourite competitive multiplayer mode in a long time.
    It's brilliantly executed. It allows players to enjoy competition and feel like they're contributing, even if they're not great at shooting other players.

    The idea is that each team has their own map where they kill monsters and gather the "motes" that they drop. These motes can then be deposited in a central bank. You can deposit any number of motes, but can only carry up to 15 at a time. If you deposit 5, you spawn a small but tough monster on the enemy team's side, and while it's alive, they can't deposit any motes. At 10, you send a larger monster. And at 15 you send a really huge pain in the ass over. What's more, you can send more than one at a time if you coordinate your deposits.

    Once you've deposited 75 motes, your bank disappears and a huge monster spawns in called a "Primeval". The aim now is to kill it before the other team can summon and kill theirs.

    However, throughout the round, every now and again one of your players will be able to go through a portal to the other team's map for 20 second bursts to try and kill them, and vice versa.

    If a player dies, their motes are lost. Evil enough to start with. But once the Primeval's up, any deaths that occur while the invader is present heal the Primeval. And the invasion portal pops up more and more frequently. So it's a frantic dash to pour as much damage in to the boss as quickly as possible without dying, while your invader frantically tries to kill as many of the opposition as possible in order to stymie their progress.

    It. Is. Superb.

    Every now and again, Penny Arcade manage to nail the zeitgeist in gaming, and this strip sums up Gambit.

    Of course, I write all of this in the full knowledge that buying in to Destiny 2 and getting Forsaken seems a huge ask thanks to the pricing and negative feedback from more strident corners of the internet.

    I'm also fully aware that a substantial part of the game involves submitting to the Skinner Box and all the seedy dopamine triggers associated with it.

    But dammit, it's sooooo moreish.

  16. #41
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Malf View Post
    And did you really just refer to yourself in the third person?
    It was a typo.

  17. #42
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Malf, do you have any tips on pre-endgame progression? Does it make most sense to go through the story missions and then revisit places, or can you basically do whatever you want whenever you want it without any negative effects? (Talking of which, I did my first Crucible game last night and got my below-level-10 ass well and truly kicked. I don't think I'll be going back there any time soon.)

  18. #43
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    The biggest tip I can give is play with others. It really makes a difference on levelling speed, and simply having someone to chat with helps things go faster. However, you'll also probably pay less attention to the story that way, which while it's pap, is at least nicely delivered by strong voice acting.

    Also, once you've finished the main story quest line on a planet, make sure to do all of the adventures before proceeding to the next story mission. These are marked on the map by orange shield icons with swords in them:



    They frequently have more interesting stories than the main quest, and help flesh out the world and characters.

    The maximum level for the base game is 20; with Curse of Osiris and Warmind it's 30; and with Forsaken, it's 50.
    I don't know what the maximum light level is for just the base game, but with the first two expansions, it's 400. However, through normal play, you'll find your gear topping out at 345, what's commonly referred to as the "soft cap". To go further, you need to do activities that reward "Powerful Engrams", which will gradually take you to 380, after which the last 20 light levels can only be gotten through raiding.

    With Forsaken, the soft cap raises to 500. That's pretty easy to attain. There's then a Powerful Engram grind until 540 I think? That's where I am at the moment. I'm getting Powerful Engrams drop in the 533 range at the moment, with my overall light level sitting at around 522-526 (an average of the light level on all of my gear).
    There's a more detailed description of the Forsaken levelling process in this Reddit thread.

    The new raid's going live tonight, and the RPS clan have got enough interested people that we're going to be attempting it with two full groups of six people at around 8:30PM this evening.
    I'm equal parts excited and suspicious. It'll be great trying to work out the mechanics of this new raid, but I'm also aware that some of the existing raid content features abstract and obscure game concepts with few to no hints as to what you're supposed to do, so attempting new raid content for the first time could be an exercise in frustration.

  19. #44
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Cheers, those help a lot. I'll see that I can team up with others, though I don't voice chat on PS4 (it's in the living room, and while I play my wife's usually doing something in the same room).

  20. #45
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2014
    Location: Yeah.
    Anyone got Destiny 2 on PC? I'm mostly play solo but I'd be down to do a strike sometime with fellow TTLGers.

  21. #46
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    I'm on PC and a member of the Rock, Paper, Shotgun clan. THere's always people willing to help out in their Discord, and from all over.

  22. #47
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: the Sheeple Pen
    I've got a Battle.net key that I wouldn't mind gifting to someone who wants to try this game.

  23. #48
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Destiny 2 now has cross-save.
    https://www.bungie.net/7/en/CrossSave


  24. #49
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    Just a quick FYI to let anyone interested know that the latest expansion, Shadowkeep, is on sale at Humble for 40% off.

  25. #50
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Shadowkeep has a virtually non-existent plot and is boring. Much of the campaign is gated behind stereotypical "fetch me a bunch of animal pelts" MMO menial tasks.

    For whatever reason if you own both it and Forsaken you can't do the older content first. God forbid people wanting to do the most well regarded story content in the game first, eh?

    I recently finished replaying Halo: Reach through the recent PC port and its leagues better than whatever was on offer with Shadowkeep. Bungie is truly a shadow of its former self.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •