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Thread: NEW T2 MISSION: "FTM Life" (13-Nov-2017) updated to v1.1

  1. #126
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Ireland/Poland
    @Cardia - If I knew you were so sensitive to a criticism, I would probably kept my opinion for myself. I just thought, you might be genuinely interested in how different people around the globe may receive your work, even if it's not always sweet. And it would be naive to think that all the opinions would be equally positive. Just look at the latest contests opinions posted in another thread now - how extreme some of them can be. And because the overall reception of your fanmission is positive, you should be happy anyway.
    If you really didn't care about the public opinion, then where does your reaction come from? Maybe you DO care and maybe you care TOO much?

    I think this mission is an interesting experience with a gameplay for 30 minutes - longer than that it's just too repetitive. The town is nicely modelled and I liked all the loot being unique. But I think if you changed the enviro a bit, made certain places less accessible, with more challenging AIs and added some plot with twists, you could end up with some exciting gameplay. Being a robber is not really such an easygoing activitiy, that you can do without any effort nor stress of consequences. And this is not my high ego, but friendly advices to you, believe it or not.

    All the best with your further dromeding!

  2. #127
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    Let's keep it calm, guys. And please carry on with the polite responses and keep off the personal.

    Cardia, the technical comments that I've read (albeit a bit briefly) do not, on the whole, seem overly critical or anything other than people trying to help and explain certain limitations. Constructive criticism, which this appears to have been, should be welcomed. No-one is being rude in any way although perhaps one or two critiques could try for a less abrasive approach.

    I have not had the opportunity to play yet but I look forward to it.

  3. #128
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by Yandros View Post
    Pedro, the point of the comments by me, Judith and PinkDot isn't so much to suggest you make changes to this mission, it's so you understand how to avoid these things in the future by using good design principles to keep your missions performing within the limitations of the engine.
    Russ, if you read the posts above i've said that my upcoming missions will be less heavy , i won't go again so far like i did here with this mission, it's a pity that a work of 2 years of intense work in the last couple of months didn't tun out to be that accessible for many people engines. As for PinkDot i can spare his opinions.

  4. #129
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by marbleman View Post
    If you made it mostly for yourself, why do you get so angry when somebody doesn't like it?
    hmmm, youre right, well thinking , why bother myself with what other people think.

  5. #130
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by H3H3 View Post
    If that's what you think, then why did you have to go out of your way to let us know that a real FtM youtuber approved your mission in the readme?
    The Real FTM person didn't play the game, he just read the story regarding the character.

  6. #131
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by nickie View Post
    Let's keep it calm, guys. And please carry on with the polite responses and keep off the personal.

    Cardia, the technical comments that I've read (albeit a bit briefly) do not, on the whole, seem overly critical or anything other than people trying to help and explain certain limitations. Constructive criticism, which this appears to have been, should be welcomed. No-one is being rude in any way although perhaps one or two critiques could try for a less abrasive approach.

    I have not had the opportunity to play yet but I look forward to it.
    I think i have the right to show my depreciation regarding some comments, as long as im not swearing, it is allowed, right ? The same way people are allowed to come here to express their dislike i think i also have the right to express my dislike towards their attitude.

  7. #132
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    well im going to watch a French movie from Sautet "Les choses de la vie" to improve my french , enjoy the movie and relax.

  8. #133
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: Argentina
    Why is this consecutive multiposting even allowed?

  9. #134
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    Hey, Pedro, I realize that you want your thread have many-many messages and be very-very long, which is why you reply to each post separately and "do not know" how to multiqute, but calm down!

    No Spamming

    Spamming is characterized by the initiation of threads or posts that contribute nothing to a forum, be it off topic or on topic. Examples include: empty bodies, bodies with few words that have no relation to the current thread or discussion and those posts that state they are Spam, either to annoy or increase a member's post count. This determination is made by the forum Moderator or Administrator and is not up for discussion.

    Additionally, posting sequential replies in the same thread is usually considered a variant of spamming. Please use the Edit feature to amend the original post to include new information or comment rather than submitting a reply immediately after your previous post.
    Moderators, I call your attention to this madness.

  10. #135
    DromEd Archmage
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Returned to the eternal labor
    I don't want to behave like somekind of moderator but that thing make me angry :
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardia View Post
    (Alors va te faire *&^%.)
    This is unacceptable to hide behind the language barrier to insult people just because the guy don't like your mission.
    Do you only know what that means in english ? It means "&*^% yourself" and it is unacceptable.

    Taking risks to be insulted like my fellow, you should know that no missions are perfect and a good dromeder is a dromeder who listen and accept criticism until these comments explains what's wrong with your work.

    Appreciate Squada and Pinkdot or not, facts are : they tell you what they don't like. All you have to do is to read and learn from your mistakes or ignore.
    Nobody is forced to like somebody's work !

    Your mission is original but I will be honnest, I don't like it because of these three weak points :

    - FPS drops too important, breaking the enjoyement and the immersion of the mission.
    - Loot goal is clearly too high. I can understand you want us to explore but we feel it like more a vain way to increase the mission life's time.
    - The gameplay is bad. I'm sorry to say but nothing was stopping me but the crazy loot goal. All we have to do is to randomly frob your world while jumping and crouching. You should know that it's not a fun gameplay at all. Worst, it is not obvious to guess what is valuable and what is not.

    About readables it is something more subjective so I cannot say much about it. I would just say that the immersion would be better if you could replace the original book art with a more modern one.

    So maybe you will rent again but this is just my opinion and I share it to help you avoiding some mistakes in your futur projects.
    Nothing personnal in this comment.

  11. #136
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardia View Post
    I think i have the right to show my depreciation regarding some comments, as long as im not swearing, it is allowed, right ? The same way people are allowed to come here to express their dislike i think i also have the right to express my dislike towards their attitude.
    Of course you're allowed to disagree and say so but you, like everyone else, should keep away from personal comments.

    @ DarkMax. Yes, consecutive multiposting is not appreciated but it's hardly the greatest crime of the century. I'm sure Cardia will make more use of the multiquote feature in future.

    Edit. And Cardia, swearing at people, even in a language other than English is not allowed. I don't want to see that again.

  12. #137
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by nickie View Post
    Of course you're allowed to disagree and say so but you, like everyone else, should keep away from personal comments.

    @ DarkMax. Yes, consecutive multiposting is not appreciated but it's hardly the greatest crime of the century. I'm sure Cardia will make more use of the multiquote feature in future.

    Edit. And Cardia, swearing at people, even in a language other than English is not allowed. I don't want to see that again.
    Alright sorry Nickie, it won't happen again.

    Firemage your missions leave much to desire, they are weak regarding level design, very poor in architecture, boring readables and unsatisfying gameplay. I don't like you as author , you have a weak expression. And as person youre a deception.
    Oh you once told me the inhabitants of Paris people are arrogant , well i don't agree , since i live near Paris i go there from time to time and find them extremely nice, human and open mind, it's you who is rather arrogant who goes to a ugly person and tells him/her in the face its ugly.
    Last edited by Cardia; 15th Nov 2017 at 18:28.

  13. #138
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Location: Full on Kevel's mom
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardia View Post
    Firemage your missions leave much to desire, they are weak regarding level design, very poor in architecture, boring readables and unsatisfying gameplay. I don't like you as author , you have a weak expression. And as person youre a deception.
    My dude...really?

  14. #139
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: Argentina
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardia View Post
    deception.
    I think you mean "disappointment". If you're gonna insult somebody at least do it right.

  15. #140
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    i approve of this mission series,and yeah its a engine problem with mass rendering of open area's with lots of textures,that is why section/walls/hills mountains/big buildings that block views of open areas's,there is a lot of ways to go about it,just need some imagination when laying it out

    also its true for some reason those fields of weeds/tall grass also has a issue with thief engine,i know benetraxx was working on fixing that issue

    also being able to walk around real places in feeling is such an amazing feeling

    this fan mission series has more life in it then most i ever played its perfect just wish i had no lag on it so i can really dig into it

  16. #141
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkMax View Post
    I think you mean "disappointment". If you're gonna insult somebody at least do it right.
    hey are you serious? since the beginning of the topic youve been here to check out the wrong things i do. Ever i have did that to you? No i don't go over your mission topics to tell you how to act.

  17. #142
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2011
    Location: ���&#5671
    I'm sorry Nickie but I can't stay idle while my bro is being spit upon just because he added his grain of salt (with all the civility he could)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardia View Post
    Firemage your missions leave much to desire, they are weak regarding level design, very poor in architecture, boring readables and unsatisfying gameplay. I don't like you as author , you have a weak expression. And as person youre a deception.
    You know your comment just earned yourself a big comparaison between your missions and Firemage's missions?

    Firemage's missions are:

    - A great show of dromed wizadry (new motionsets, custom scripts etc. etc.)
    - Some incredibly fun maps, not always gorgeous I give you that but it can be excused upon the lack of experience for the first ones and a lack of time for the 72h contest
    - Everything is made by HIMSELF, from objects to meshes, from music to textures
    - Atmospheric to the max or a brand new experience (Dark city plagued by a necromancer, pirate's island, randomized mansion etc...)

    Yours are :
    - You're still struggling with things an author with +20 fan-missions shouldn't. Struggling with custom schemas? Oh boy!
    - You are in this giant corridor and you must find loot. End
    - Lots and lots of objects from "Unknown authors", meshes taken from Lady Rowena's fan-mission that she FORBADE to use without her consent, everything is random and feel out of places, nothing is coherent (nuka-kola machines from fallout ?! What the fug?)
    - Sometime atmospheric by using some weird techno music... But more often not.

    Here's a french idiom for you since you're so fond of our language : regarde toi avant de parler (Look at yourself before talking about someone else)

  18. #143
    DromEd Archmage
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Returned to the eternal labor
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardia View Post
    Firemage your missions leave much to desire, they are weak regarding level design, very poor in architecture, boring readables and unsatisfying gameplay. I don't like you as author , you have a weak expression. And as person youre a deception.
    And this is why I'm working with a team composed with amazing level design talent like DrK, Skacky and Squada, creating special effects, triggers, custom scripts, models and motions, all from scratch or using rarely LGS's objects as base. Providing my best skills to this community and it authors.

    You can point out all my mistakes yes, but you can't deny the fact that quality of my missions has never stop to increase mission after mission, just because I read what peoples don't liked and learned from these mistakes.

    But I got a question for you : what's the point in your answer ?
    Are you telling that I'm not allowed to say what's wrong with your mission because I did bad missions ?
    This is like a cook in a restaurant saying to an unsatisfied customer he don't have the right to complains because he's not a good cook. Pretty bite and pointless as a plea...
    This is even off-topic because we are talking about your mission which got problems to fix, not my curriculum vitae as Mapper in this community.

    EDIT :
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardia View Post
    Oh you once told me the inhabitants of Paris people are arrogant , well i don't agree , since i live near Paris i go there from time to time and find them extremely nice, human and open mind, it's you who is rather arrogant who goes to a ugly person and tells him/her in the face its ugly.
    I don't see the connection with your mission or me. It is absolutely out of topic ! lol
    I guess you need to take some fresh air because you are starting to be silly. I was just talking about your mission, you are talking about me. It will become soon personnal.
    So carry on this way pal and we'll talk about your behavior to the staff. I will not reduce myself to such sour discussion.
    Last edited by FireMage; 15th Nov 2017 at 18:56.

  19. #144
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: A Former Forest
    A few points:

    1. Cardia is known for being a loot hog. He hides loot all over the place and you must collect nearly all of it. This is a given for almost all of his FMs. If you dont like loot hunts, don't play his missions.
    2. Yes, the FPS do drop and this could be fixed. Meh... My 7 year old Xeon processor tower does OK at about 30 FPS in the slow areas.
    3. The story and the book entries are depressing. If you don't like the stories, dont play.

    Im about 1 1/2 hours into the game and still need about 3000 loot for the first chapter. I stopped playing 2 days ago, but will probably try a little more tonight. Im not a huge fan of this FM, but it is interesting enough for me to continue to play.

    I would also like to say that the first chapter reminds me of Merida Mexico, at least the newer sections of town. Lots of 2 bedroom flats just like in the game. Then there are vacant lots or little plots of farming. That aspect kept me playing.

    No, this is not a typical FM. Love it or hate it, it exists. Play it or dont.

  20. #145
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Location: Full on Kevel's mom
    Quote Originally Posted by bjack View Post
    A few points:

    1. Cardia is known for being a loot hog. He hides loot all over the place and you must collect nearly all of it. This is a given for almost all of his FMs. If you dont like loot hunts, don't play his missions.
    2. Yes, the FPS do drop and this could be fixed. Meh... My 7 year old Xeon processor tower does OK at about 30 FPS in the slow areas.
    3. The story and the book entries are depressing. If you don't like the stories, dont play.

    Im about 1 1/2 hours into the game and still need about 3000 loot for the first chapter. I stopped playing 2 days ago, but will probably try a little more tonight. Im not a huge fan of this FM, but it is interesting enough for me to continue to play.

    I would also like to say that the first chapter reminds me of Merida Mexico, at least the newer sections of town. Lots of 2 bedroom flats just like in the game. Then there are vacant lots or little plots of farming. That aspect kept me playing.

    No, this is not a typical FM. Love it or hate it, it exists. Play it or dont.
    1. I don't think the problem is necessarily the amount of loot, it's that what is and isn't considered loot is not really consistent. One item might be valuable, but another just like it is not?
    Everyone who plays Thief likes loot hunts inherently. In this case, for me it sort of devolved into running into flats (some doors frobbable, some not with no clear indication other than having to run up and try it) and blindly frobbing everything. (I guess maybe this was to explain the frantic struggle that trans people go through when they steal from their neighbors to afford hormone replacement therapy? )

    2. The annoyance of the FPS drops appears to be subjective. There are certainly places where it drops below 30 on my brand new PC (i7-6700k 4.1 Ghz, Geforce GTX 1080). I haven't measured the frames, but I wouldn't be shocked if it dropped down in the single digits (albeit shortly) unless you look down when crossing the streets in some areas. For me and people that are used to playing games with relatively smooth gameplay and consistent frames, this is hyper annoying and borderline unplayable. For some (apparently for the author himself) this is acceptable. ::shrug::

    3. Yes, they were depressing, but the only way you'd know is if you read them first. Not that anyone is entitled to any kind of warning.

    I think everyone understands that they don't have to play a mission if they don't like it, but authors who submit their work to the public need to expect and, at times, accept fair criticism. It's just part of it.
    "Don't like it, don't play it" is obvious. Well, no shit. Doesn't mean we can't critique something we don't like. (I myself stopped after a good half hour or so as it just wasn't my cup of tea.)

  21. #146
    DromEd Archmage
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Returned to the eternal labor
    Quote Originally Posted by bjack View Post
    don't play his missions. [...] If you don't like the stories, don’t play.
    I'm sorry bjack but I disagree.

    There is no "If you don't like his style, don't play his missions." and let me explain you why :

    I played many Cardia's mission and even betatested some of them. I liked many of them.
    I played this one to see how it is and make my own opinion as I did for the others and I just disliked it. Such things happen and that's all, we don't always succeed !

    The problem is not the fact the mission exist or not. The problem is that Cardia behave in a silly and aggressive way because we told him why we are not convainced by his mission and what he should works on to improve his work. We are not here to bully him or anything like this but to help him with constructive criticism
    (if the thing was just criticism for annoying people we won't have taken our time on typing the reasons we don't like it).

    If you love Cardia's work, it's fine ! But do not forbid us to play and express our opinion. Trying to censor criticism is certainly the worst thing to do !
    We need cristicism as long as it is explained to make better contain !

    Moreover, if somebody hate the style of an author, IMHO he should be the first to play his mission because this is the only way to make him change his mind, to let him see what has been improved and let him say what's better and what is wrong this time.
    Last edited by FireMage; 15th Nov 2017 at 20:00.

  22. #147
    Moderator
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Thunder Bay, On., Canada
    This thread is definitely heading way to far into personal insult territory! Enough!

    Expressing comment, whether it be positive or negative, about a mission is the very basis of this forum along with being able to ask for help. You need to choose your words carefully in order to tell the author what you don't like without being rude. On the other hand, authors who release a mission to the public have to be prepared to be told that some people either won't like it or will have issues with it. Read it, learn from it or discard it, as you wish but DON'T reply by trying to shut people down or being rude.

    If you have a comment state it politely but leave out the insults. That is directed at EVERYONE! You don't want to see this thread get shut down, do you?

  23. #148
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: A Former Forest
    I did not say anyone should not comment. Go ahead and have at it. However, why bother? Cardia made this mission in his image, faults and all. Let it be and move on if you dislike or hate it. Life is too short to care if an FM is worthy or not. Oh, and I too have beta tested for Cardia. I dont like some of his stuff, yet find his style interesting. His loot hunts bug me, but are a challenge. He loves to hide coins in bathrooms. Love it or hate it... say as you wish. I said my peace. Thanks Cardia for the FM. Its not my favorite and it has bugs, but it exists. It was free, so I cannot complain much about it If I had to pay for it, then I would be a little more critical.

    I guess my point is, if you don't like it, change the channel. By all means fire away, but really... what is the point? Do you think that Cardia is going to be receptive? I will not try to speak to his state of mind at this point other than it seems he is not open to criticism toward this FM. It sounds personal. Best to leave that one alone. Just my opinion.

  24. #149
    FTM v 1.1 is not a valid zip? Darkloader cannot open it.
    Update...that bad zip file was from Taffers Paradise. The one on Google drive is good.
    Last edited by onetruekeeper; 16th Nov 2017 at 02:08.

  25. #150
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Fields of bluegrass
    Quote Originally Posted by bjack View Post
    .

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