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Thread: Ghost rules discussion

  1. #551
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    And you are correct - there is no rule preventing asking on forum about any hidden objectives.
    There is a rule, though, that explicitly forbids the use of any walkthroughs. Asking on a forum could be interpreted as violating the spirit of this rule, as it's essentially a way to skirt it.

  2. #552
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Starker, do people actually take that rule seriously though? As in "Well I satisfied every other ghosting requirement for Bafford, however I once watched someone's video / read a walkthrough of that mission and can't unlearn the knowledge of loot locations I obtained from it. Therefore I'll mark this report as a fail."

  3. #553
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Well, I never used the rules as they are because of it.

  4. #554
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    There is a rule, though, that explicitly forbids the use of any walkthroughs. Asking on a forum could be interpreted as violating the spirit of this rule, as it's essentially a way to skirt it.
    I thought that too, but klatremus explained in one of his past posts that asking on forum isn't the same as using walkthroughs and lootlists. Also this rule isn't enforced, it's just point of honor, which I usually ignore, because it has nothing to do with actual ghosting and I want to find all secrets that I never found on my first playthrough.

  5. #555
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    So I could ask for the location of any piece of loot, just not use a loot list? Seems like a distinction without difference to me. Also, while the rule is not enforceable (for example, you can't post a video to prove that you ghosted the mission without having read a walkthrough), it's obviously meant to be followed or else it wouldn't even be there.

  6. #556
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2015
    Location: Shawano County, Wisconsin
    As far as I can remember, I've only ever seen klatremus ask on the forums for a hint about what general area to search, not an exact location. That way he could still find the piece(s) of loot himself on a standard playthrough without having to spend who knows how many hours scouring the mission.

    Unless I'm mistaken, I've always interpreted the "walkthrough/loot cheat" rule to mean not getting outside help during the ghost run itself. You either know beforehand how to find the loot and avoid alerting the guards, or you figure it out as you go. Otherwise, wouldn't that mean everyone who wants to ghost Kidnap would have to figure out how to "unhook the caboose" without reading/watching about the trick in detail?

  7. #557
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    While I don't like the rule much myself and don't play by the so-called official rules, I also think that ghosting is meant to be an extra difficult challenge, not something that should be doable in every mission or that everyone should be able to do.

    IIRC I don't think I figured out how to snatch him myself, so after a while I just counted it as a bust and moved on. Now if I went and looked at a walkthrough or a video tutorial and got past that bit with its help, I wouldn't really feel like I have legitimately solved the ghosting puzzle the mission offers.

    On the other hand, I want to get missing pieces of loot and secrets, so I have no compunction about using loot lists/walkthroughs for that purpose or look up forum threads for any other things I might have missed.
    Last edited by Starker; 13th Sep 2021 at 01:49.

  8. #558
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth
    I remember from the early 2000s ghosters were fine asking for loose hints to loot or objectives on the forums. That does not go against the rule. I've always used loot lists that I have made myself, which I also got confirmed was ok a long time ago. Beyond that, it's really up to the player's own conscience. I report whenever I use direct spoilers from walkthroughs in order to complete a mission. I guess loot lists are ok if you want to check what buildings or general locations you've missed loot, or perhaps what kind of piece you're missing so you know what to look for. Some players stay away from everything related to loot lists or walkthroughs, and never ask on the forums. Others are ok with anything that is not a direct spoiler. It's really up to each player, which the rule also says in that it is a "point of honor that cannot be enforced". The rule explains the spirit of the mode, but not exactly what is allowed/disallowed.

    Also, the rule actually doesn't say "loot lists" but instead "loot cheats", which have always been interpreted to include lists. Another thing, the Supreme rules actually don't say anything about loot lists or walkthroughs, only the regular Ghost rules...whatever that means.

  9. #559
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Can someone explain to me this supreme ghost rule: "Lock picking that creates infinitesimal degradation of the lock mechanism is OK"? It's the first time I hear that picking the lock can also damage it.

  10. #560
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth
    It just means picking locks is not a bust to Supreme. Sneak wrote the rule that way to argue it's not property damage to the lock. Maybe someone claimed that back in the day.

  11. #561
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by klatremus View Post
    It just means picking locks is not a bust to Supreme. Sneak wrote the rule that way to argue it's not property damage to the lock. Maybe someone claimed that back in the day.
    I'm asking, because regular ghost doesn't have that sentence in property damage rule.

  12. #562
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Galaer, perhaps after the creation of Ghost but before the creation of Supreme, someone tried to apply the real-world logic that lockpicking would introduce small degradations to the lock, and so is property damage. So this flavour text was added into Supreme to essentially say that such real-world logic can be ignored as There is no game mechanic associated with this degradation?

    Perhaps too, the Supreme authors didn't want to alter what had been written for older modes, they just wanted to write the new Supreme rules? Hence why that text doesn't appear in the earlier modes. And why the rule about walkthroughs is still in them despite having been removed for Supreme?

    On another note, if you pickpocket a guard's key I have noticed before now that this can alter the guard's patrol route. In Cragscleft for example, instead of unlocking and going through a door, without a key the Hammer will now turn around and go off somewhere else. This is not a ghost issue?
    Last edited by Cigam; 17th Sep 2021 at 15:12.

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