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Thread: Ghost rules discussion

  1. #51
    New Member
    Registered: May 2018

    Silent Key Dropping Technique

    First post here, been lurking for a bit. Glad this community is still active!

    I discovered that if you drop a key on top of another item like a slowfall potion it doesn't make a sound. If you pick up the item underneath the key will fall and make a noise when it hits the ground. Is leaving an item behind that you started the mission with considered a bust for ghost?


  2. #52
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    That's not a bust to Ghost, but it definitely busts Supreme.

  3. #53
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    I want to ask about killing objective. If killing is too loud, can I KO-ed my target first, move to another location and then kill him? Or do I need to do it immediately?

  4. #54
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    Yes, you can do that. In fact, that's Klatremus's exact method for killing Gaston in Calendra's Legacy mission 3.

  5. #55
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Thanks.

  6. #56
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth
    Nice memory there, marbleman. I like it!

  7. #57
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    I'm playing Nosferatu now. There is item called Hairpin that acts like square lockpick. It's only needed for 2 optional loot pieces and I can't drop it back. Is taking this item is a supreme ghost bust?

  8. #58
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    I'd say no. If you need it to get loot, you can take it, and if you can't drop it, you don't have to either.

  9. #59
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth
    Its only a bust picking up things you dont need to complete objectives or getting loot.

  10. #60
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Thanks for this answer. I also wanted to know what is your opinion about posting ghost report of abandoned by author mission?

  11. #61
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth
    You should contact the author. It really depends on why it was abandoned. Most players wouldnt review an unfinished mission, but ghosting it, im not sure. Never considered it, to be honest.

  12. #62
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Off to Milhorn Manor FM - in basement area are boulders. When I frob them they vanish showing what's behind them (usually it's a safety shortcuts). Is frobbing these boulders is damage property?

  13. #63
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    So you're removing them from existence by frobbing? I don't think it's property damage since you're not actually damaging them, but I would consider removing them a Supreme bust.

  14. #64
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    What about using an item in order to vanish something? Like using shovel to vanish dirt and get to grave. Or using drill on grate to make it vanish.

  15. #65
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    Similarly not a bust. There are very specific criteria for what's considered damage. Simply removing the objects from existence does not fall under that, and in some cases, it is even Supreme-clean. Take, for example, the second mission of Chalice of Souls. To progress, the player has to frob three glyphs. They disappear when frobbed, but it's not damage, and it's not even a bust to Supreme.

  16. #66
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Is using flash bombs allowed? I noticed that flashed people gets blinded, but after effect will end, they return to what they did without any alert. Spiders on the other way stops moving for few second. Afterwards they continue their patrol without any alert. Also flash bombs don't deal any damage to living creatures, so they act a little like invisibility potion.

  17. #67
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    This is an interesting one. I was sure that flash bombs are disallowed, but there is nothing in the rules about them. Personally I wouldn't allow them, but I'd like to hear Klatremus's opinion. It also might be worth adding this point to the rules then.

  18. #68
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2001
    Location: The Rogues Den
    Quote Originally Posted by downwinder View Post
    rule #1 of true ghosting if you fail at any point restart mission from scratch, lets be honest we all know about save and reload=we all use it often no matter what style we play,but if some want to claim to be able to do the so called hardest experience on thief shouldn't the rule #1 come into effect
    I can't recall if I've ever checked the ghosting rules posted first on the Eidos forum, and then here, since I've always played by my own set of rules. However, lately I've been watching both Twitch streamers and YouTube videos of supposed true ghosting, or even supreme ghosting, and I'm constantly seeing these players save scumming because they've caused alerts or otherwise made a mistake. In my own personal ghosting rules, if I screw up, I have to start the mission over again. I'm really, really, and I mean REALLY surprised that when I came here to read the "official" ghosting rules, there's absolutely no mention of save scumming. Let's be real, people. If it took me 100 quicksaves/quickloads to complete a mission by the rules, do we really want that to qualify as a win?

    I was watching this Twitch streamer the other day, and he was literally saving the game every time he moved from one shadow to the next, and was constantly loading his last save every time he messed up. It was abundantly clear to me that this guy didn't really have any taffer skills, and yet he was claiming to be ghosting the mission. I propose the rules be changed to what Downwinder suggested above. You must ghost the mission from start to finish without loading a save. If the player needs to do practice runs, then they should do that beforehand.

    What say you all?

    And yeah... damn right I'm still around!

  19. #69
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Ghosting is Ghosting, Iron Ghosting is Iron Ghosting, Titanium Ghosting is Titanium Ghosting.

    I suppose it is up to the individual which one(s) they consider worthy. (But has anyone ever actually Titanium Ghosted a Thief game?)

  20. #70
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Well, the main problem of Iron Ghosting is luck factor involved. This is something you can't learn, it's random. Sometimes you sneak near enemy and he will first alert or not alert at all. Sometimes it's random. And what about stationary guards. They turn in random direction and stays that way for random amount of time. There is no skill involved here either. Sometimes these guards will be turned around for 1 minute and sometimes for just 5 seconds. And what about enemies choosing random patrol route. You can't learn that. What you need is a lot of luck.

    Oh, and if we involve Fan Missions, then some of them have some events that change the ghosting in random ways. For example: fights in Mission 1 of Patriot. They are always in the same place, but whenever I played and load, then final result of them was always different. Sometimes guards blocking path gets involved in the fights, sometimes they don't which screws a ghost. Or something completely unpredicted happens. You can't really learn how to deal with these situations during practice runs.

    And by the way loading game is also useful to unstuck guards. Or let them continue their patrol instead making little loop all the time. But you can play however you want. There is really no need to force this Iron Ghosting into rules.

  21. #71
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    Is using flash bombs allowed? I noticed that flashed people gets blinded, but after effect will end, they return to what they did without any alert. Spiders on the other way stops moving for few second. Afterwards they continue their patrol without any alert. Also flash bombs don't deal any damage to living creatures, so they act a little like invisibility potion.
    Typically if a flashbomb lands on something like grass or carpet, they won't make a sound that alerts AI, but if you toss a flashbomb onto a hard surface then the noise will alert AI. The flash itself won't trigger an alert.

  22. #72
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    In last mission of The Trickster Gem Mine I'm getting optional objective of killing certain number of zombies. But I don't need to kill them, backstabbing also trigger this objective. But I need to do that without any alert for that to not be a bust. My question is: Is backstabbing zombies actually alerts them or is it working like KO-ing people?

  23. #73
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth
    An overhead backstab resulting in the victim going down should mean no alert, and if its instructed in the objective, you are fine.

  24. #74
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    @klatremus: what about the earlier question regarding the use of flash bombs?

  25. #75
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth
    Flash bombs illicit a change in enemy behavior. To me that's the same as a second level alert. Who wouldn't know that they just got blinded? Despite them not being mentioned in the rules, I would never use them when ghosting, other than for non-enemy related purposes, like for example to push a button. Good question though.

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