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Thread: Horror T2 FM "Buried Deed" Dev Thread

  1. #26
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX
    Big slow down on any more work with this, because I was freaking out about trying to stay true to fans of the chateau, in having a good scale around 1.5x times normal. I started to realize after making the front door, a recognizable feature like any other, that it would have to be greatly changed, as it appears I was actually at about 2x scale - so the handle and lock placement wouldn't make sense.

    But as you may have already read in another thread, I am starting to realize that, it would work best at this current scale in many other ways. It works out well for the grid size, and makes for a larger castle area with more vertical gameplay. Which ultimately is more important than pleasing fans of the chateau. This project will just have to be filed under "inspired by".

    Here is some shots of the door.



  2. #27
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2007
    Location: Sweden
    Looking nice. I must confess that this castle was on top of my list when i chose between castles i wanted to build.
    Luckily, I chose another castle to be base my mission on.

  3. #28
    You shouldn't care much about "fans of the chateau", whatever such group may be. The only thing that matters is gameplay, and how your space relates to it. IIRC, you already have a greybox version of your level, now bend the architecture to it. If you have problems with scale, import character model into your scene to see how it looks against your models. When making architectural pieces, especially climbable / interactive ones, import low poly WIPs into your map, see how they look like, and how traversal works, before you spend hours texturing it. This way you'll save a lot of time, if you decide that a model needs reworking.

  4. #29
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX
    So that end, at this scale it is all about gameplay, giant stone window holes you can stand in looking down on the creatures from way up high. The thief fans are number 1 priority, but the chateau fans started getting into my head because of how friendly they were in providing me photo references - that and I'm also a fan. I warned them though, that it wouldn't be to scale, because it would be too small, so I don't know why it started bothering me so much.

    The place is also so "bombed out" you really can't know the scales is 2x, which really works in my favor. The objects will work as well, just so long as I understand this new path, and there isn't much man-made stuff anymore. I just had a internal struggle on it for a bit and it made me not want to continue for a bit. But I think I'm good now. With all the vegetation, which was the anchor design choice, it should look reclaimed by nature with rubble.

    Thanks for your input, everyone.

  5. #30
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX
    Slowly coming along, taking a break from brush work to have some object fun. I took the bafford readable to translate DU size (10 inches a DU) and put my bedroom painting into the mission.
    I was looking at it one night as I was passing out and was like, wait a second, that would totally fit into the mission universe.
    Also what's cool, is that someone who is now passed, gave it to me, and there's a sense that I'm immortalizing it. Like if I lose it, although I've had it for 15 years, it will still exist as an object I can look at.

    I'll finish with images, but this update is also to say, I can't wait to put more IRL objects into the mission.

    IN REAL LIFE:


    IN RENDERER:


    IN DROMED:

  6. #31
    Actually, ingame version looks better than the photo Did you make a medium-poly version of the frame? Frame texture could benefit from some baked details to give it more depth.

  7. #32
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX
    So, I actually did every single detail - as far as the polys. But the PHONG shader smoothed it out depending on where the torch is, but straight on as you see it looks nice. I agree about the frame but, it is dromed, and so the rest of the level is in similar non baked theme. For what it is, it will be so dark with moon light contrast, people will forget missing detail in textures. Plus flooding the place with greenery. If it was Darkmod, I would def bake that frame..

    But all aside, thanks for commenting. It means a lot.

    Edit: Oh I should mention, there will be a "grunging" of everything later in dev. So if I find that 1024x1024 is too uniform, it will be 2048 more unique, later on. At least those places that show. However, this painting may not change per something I can't tell yall yet.

  8. #33
    Yeah, normals and speculars is what makes the difference in TDM, although even simpler diffuse-based workflow can benefit from baking AO from mid-poly models. E.g. this is how my window and door frames look like with diffuse texture only:



    The biggest problem is that it takes much time to do this, so spending that time on level design might be a better idea.

  9. #34
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX
    Very pretty room Judith.

  10. #35
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX


    Not a spectacular update visually but, I burned a day working on small facade details and how they relate to the overall WIP uniformity of the build. Mostly in deciding how to strike a median between emulated and realistic, anchored to my skill and the engine's capability. I finally rested on a format, that can be applied to all exterior sides, so I don't have to think about it too much. Just, go...

    I reworked some large brushes as well, as hashing out details, revealed that some areas needed to be changed. I ended up going with a more gungy exterior texture, now free from copying the IRL chateau. But really all textures at this early stage are likely to change later during the "weathering" stage.

    Outside of building, I've been corresponding with Phantom this whole time, going over several AIs to be featured in the mission. He will be helping me bring them to life, but asked him to take his time as I want to show more promising progresses before he puts major work into meshes. For the meshes we've got so far though, I'm super excited. I may have to at least show one in a early screen of the interior.

    Hope my writing made sense, I'm super tired and foggy brained. Heading to bed.

  11. #36
    Not sure if I understood correctly, but texture for the wall details isn't done yet, right? Because right now they're almost indistinguishable from the wall texture. IMO you'll need some other material here, as it all looks too uniform, and all the work you put into those details is hardly visible.

  12. #37
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX
    Correct, the weathering make the whole place more distinct. Also the alternate textures overall. The light will not be like this either, so these details are mostly for those happening to pass them face to face on a rope arrow, or for those time where the moonlight casts a shadow from them. The point is that they are established and ready to emulate on all faces, and represent what you find on the real deal. Even on the face we're looking at it's not done.


    If I already wanted a better screenshot, I just angle the hack-light and turn up the brick material texture size to be less busy, and it's already looking better.


    I will have to be careful of running out of cells, and objects, so this is the standard I came up with.

  13. #38
    IMO copying materials 1:1 will be a bit boring. It might be realistic, but in terms of game environment, using one texture for all the elements will impact their readability. You can change the material to something like light stucco, as long as it looks interesting.

  14. #39
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX
    I mean you're speaking to the choir here. The sides of the window are not going to change much, they are brushes so, I want to take advantage of brick alignment. Most of all else will be weathered and look very stucco. Not to leave out, I will be opening up old object files and "breaking" them and reimporting. There will be blotchy worn areas and green grime. My initial post was saying exactly that it will be uniform as a placeholder, and was little about texturing or texture differentiation.

    It was finding the level of detail in objects/elements necessary for interesting architecture, but still within this engine, that is also not going to tax me later. Textures will be reworked a lot. If fact I have to watch that I don't overly contrast the elements to their wall/setting. Keep in mind if you sub to this, you are going to see a lot of unfinished stuff, but I do heed the warnings.

  15. #40
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Don't have anything to say on the technical side of this, but the latest screenshots are stunning! Lovely work!

  16. #41
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by vfig View Post
    Don't have anything to say on the technical side of this, but the latest screenshots are stunning! Lovely work!
    Thank you! This one's for you!

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by gamophyte View Post
    I mean you're speaking to the choir here. The sides of the window are not going to change much, they are brushes so, I want to take advantage of brick alignment. Most of all else will be weathered and look very stucco. Not to leave out, I will be opening up old object files and "breaking" them and reimporting. There will be blotchy worn areas and green grime. My initial post was saying exactly that it will be uniform as a placeholder, and was little about texturing or texture differentiation.

    It was finding the level of detail in objects/elements necessary for interesting architecture, but still within this engine, that is also not going to tax me later. Textures will be reworked a lot. If fact I have to watch that I don't overly contrast the elements to their wall/setting. Keep in mind if you sub to this, you are going to see a lot of unfinished stuff, but I do heed the warnings.
    That's okay, I somehow missed that this is still WIP in terms of textures. I work with models almost exclusively, brushes are more flexible in terms of changing textures on the fly.

  18. #43
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    flexible in terms of changing textures on the fly.
    It works that same here. but, it kind of has a domino effect though with this much wear and tear. If I change a zone then the weathering has to grow outward from there, to have a cohesiveness. I'm not sure how far it I can take it just yet. If at the end, this old timer engine starts stuttering, I may not be able to make 2048x2048 bands of worn unique textures. Same with blemish decals, I may run out of objects before I get to splurge on them. Have you worked with this engine yet?

    Edit: I feel like I'm already breaking a cardinal rule by texturing so early! but it helps with production!

  19. #44
    IMO you should set some reasonable tech constraints and stick to them. I worked with Dromed ages ago, never beyond two-three bare-bone WIPs. I haven't seen T2 missions built on 2k textures exclusively, but I'd expect them to turn out bad (think Cardia missions). I use base 2k textures for my Dark Mod project now, but I think about scaling down to 1k in the end.

    I'd probably set 1024 as max size for textures and assume some pixel density ratio. E.g. a 1024 x 1024 texture should cover the area of 16 x 16 DUs, or something like that. Maybe smaller, like 10 DUs, if you want to get sharper-looking surfaces. Kind of depends on player and AI size, don't remember that for T2. Anyway, everything else will be scaled in relation to that.

    Edit: also, texturing early is not a bad thing per se, I often make "50% quality" materials just to see if the colors and shapes are right. Just don't put too much work in it, as it may change a lot during production.

    I'm not sure if Dark has that, but TDM (idtech4) has this handy in-engine scaling tool for textures, i.e. you can make everything with 2k textures and then use resizing to 1024 or 512 and reload your map to see how it looks like. In my experience, good textures will still look decent after scaling down, at least in the 2048 to 1024 range. You will lose some crispy close-up details, but the general look will be there.
    Last edited by Judith; 26th Nov 2018 at 03:38.

  20. #45
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX
    Hid some things to not spoil but wanted to show this lil pile of rubble. It's already fun as hell to "break" and "pile" objects I've already made and placed elsewhere.

    [cannot be embiggened]

  21. #46
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2004
    Location: Germany
    Hi gamophyte,

    i want to send you an answer as PM but your inbox is full

  22. #47
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX
    Not too much visually to report. I took the weekend to actually fix some objects that we're sitting right with me. Or make into object that used to be brushes, because they were better as objects with a little more detail.

    The only real new-new object is the roof rod thingies:


    Aside from fixing, the new rods, I also made a modular system for the window facade objects. So now any given one can be a combo of different parts at various degrees of damage. When all are put in, even if there are just broken off stubbs, they still are utilized for their bounding boxes. So no matter the combo, the player should be find up close without weirdness. Example is that you can shoot an arrow where you would expect to shoot an arrow.


    A note if you haven't been following, my screenshots depict textures that have yet to be damaged. As well, the sky box is just a placeholder. I think I will be making photoshop batches with macros that will auto damage the textures based of material. Not sure.

    Update: Oh I also wanted to mention I now have 612 reference photos, from only like 200 when I started. All in a folder structures so I can quickly go to where I need to based on where I'm building.
    Last edited by gamophyte; 17th Dec 2018 at 02:19.

  23. #48
    Will the player be able to reach that tower? Otherwise, these roof rods are quite thin and that kind of details will be destroyed by aliasing.

    Oh, and when it comes to gathering references, do yourself a favor and start using PureRef. You will save tons of time on browsing the whole library of images, since you can just arrange them in collages. You can also resize the window, resize images inside it, and have the window always on top, with various degrees of transparency. It's a great thing for a free tool.

  24. #49
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX
    The player will be up there, but also, the image is a little warped because both screenshots are actually from one dump/screenshot I cut up. So you can actually see this from far away just fine. They are big up close and almost as tall as the player. I took the screenshot about 60 DUs away.

    Yeah I had no idea I was going to have this many images. I already invested so much time in the folders, and they work. I will have to keep that software in mind for my next project. Thanks for the heads up!

    Edit: Although.. it is only 5 euros to try the autosorter, and see how it does it.

  25. #50
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX
    A little update visually; I've been wanting to finish a room to completion to keep myself inspired at what is possible. It will be the second floor in the front tower.

    The following screenshots are just a general idea of where it's going so far. I've been doing a lot of overlay and other photoshop blending to construct some custom grunge textures. I was testing the look of the windows and decided to share since they made the area feel inclosed.

    I still have to implement the window's tech (other post talking about it), but should make a video when it's done.

    Other features of the room that I can mention without it being too spoilery;
    - Wall crack, stain, and pock decals.
    - The best AI I have right now as a test, but it won't be in that room more than likely.
    - Lit candle with bitmap flame.
    - Garbage and junk pieces.
    - Other terrain detail like the coal burning fireplace, nook, and built in wall shelves.
    - Mushroom lighting.







    Edit: I almost forgot, I also have been working on the UI as you can see. I am setting up a real crystal in front of a dimmer to make my custom light gem.

    Edit2: I can already see I am going to end up making the window more opaque for more of a claustrophobic feeling, and bring the wood texture up so it's more visible/bleached.
    Last edited by gamophyte; 28th Jan 2019 at 13:27.

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