What new features would you like for the next NewDark update (Suggestions)

[Yandros]

NewDark uses DX9, actually, although it allows users to force it into DX6 mode. Also I wouldn't just assume that no one here has any experience with this.

[Judith]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought NewDark uses DX9 to display things in modern resolutions and provide some post effects, but the engine itself wasn't re-written for DX9 (that would probably be a huge task anyway).

As for the experience, if you make models and textures mostly for Dromed, then yeah, you don't have much practice in that workflow, and that's fine. The curve is quite steep, but once you get the hang of things, its super-rewarding and a lot of fun IMO. I actually prefer making models and materials over level design.

[Yandros]

You may be right about that, I'm not sure. It's all pretty moot really as I agree that supporting normal and diffuse in Dark is pretty pointless since many of the stock and commonly used custom textures would look terrible if not completely redone.

[Judith]

That would be a tremendous effort to make _d, _s, _n materials for all the stock assets, I wouldn't dare ask anyone of that. And while I love all the shiny stuff, also I think limitations are good. I follow a couple of modeling forums, and all of them have lovely and thriving low-poly art section (and by low poly I mean like PlayStation1 stuff).

[Sperry]

I'm not sure if this would be possible at all, or if it somehow may already be possible, but:

What if SS2's inventory system could be imported into Thief and Thief 2?

[SneakyGuy101]

I love your suggestion for new brush shapes. One new shape I could think of would be a cylinder but in a vaulted shape so making vaulted archways like this one:http://dromed.whoopdedo.org/dromed/vaulted_arch could be made easier. I'm really curious tbh if new shapes would be possible

[trefoilknot]

Archways like that are no problem. Just use some overlapping cylinders, and a little clever water/water-->solid/evaporation.

EDIT: I guess I should have read the whole link---apparently they were providing this tutorial. I just saw the image at the top

[Cardia]

I love your suggestion for new brush shapes. One new shape I could think of would be a cylinder but in a vaulted shape so making vaulted archways like this one:http://dromed.whoopdedo.org/dromed/vaulted_arch could be made easier. I'm really curious tbh if new shapes would be possible

I didn't know it was possible to have a cylinder with 24 sides, i thought the maximum was 10, i always made vaulted arches with one cylinder, but that method is more perfect, i can't believe i missed that.

[Unna Oertdottir]

You can have 26 sides on a cylinder (28 sides altogether). Take a look at the modders notes.

[Cardia]

You can have 26 sides on a cylinder (28 sides altogether). Take a look at the modders notes.

It must be something really recent that came up with the last newdark update, and lately i made so many cylinders using the old method of joining 3 cylinders of 10 sides. imagine using the old method with three 26 sides cylinders. Thank you so much Unna and SneakyGuy101 for mentioning this feature.

[SneakyGuy101]

It must be something really recent that came up with the last newdark update, and lately i made so many cylinders using the old method of joining 3 cylinders of 10 sides. imagine using the old method with three 26 sides cylinders. Thank you so much Unna and SneakyGuy101 for mentioning this feature.

No problem lol it's actually been a feature since the initial 1.19 release of NewDark so you've been missing out

Archways like that are no problem. Just use some overlapping cylinders, and a little clever water/water-->solid/evaporation.

Well yeah it is really simple but it'd be even better to have a pre-made shape for it rather than having to follow a tutorial every time I want to make a vaulted arch

[Cardia]

what? since 1.19?



Now i´ll make sure my next cylinders will be with 26 sides., does this represent a risk for complex view/dromed problems?

[Tannar]

I'd like the ability to copy/cut and paste text into the command window instead of having to type it every time.

[Yandros]

Now i´ll make sure my next cylinders will be with 26 sides., does this represent a risk for complex view/dromed problems?

Of course it does.

Using more sides on cylinders will create more complex terrain and more cells, and thus potentially more complexity issues with your missions. Use your newfound superpowers judiciously, i.e. only use as many sides as you absolutely need to get the look you want. I still rarely go over 16 sides (without the old three cylinder trick, just 16 sides) and it looks fine to me in most situations. There's no reason to use the max of 26 in every case just because you can. Sometimes 10 or 12 is fine too.

[Cardia]

Thanks Russ, i´ll keep that i mind, that makes me think that i might have avoid problems in previous missions with those cylinders, after all with newdark 1.19 it was more easy to have problems with brush complexity.

[ZylonBane]

Use your newfound superpowers judiciously

I think we all know he can't do that.

[vfig]

It would be fun if the speech callback issues were to be fixed in NewDark, so that the T2 facial animations could be used. Even more fun if the function for setting different visages (angry/smiling etc) were exposed to scripts. Not a very important feature, because how often in Thief are you looking at an enemy's face while they're talking away? But fun.

[PinkDot]

I think for any speech effect we need a proper animated mesh. Having blend shapes (morph targets) would be nice.
Or at least simple bone setup for opening mouth - similar to what they do in Dark Mod.

1) Speaking of characters and animations - it would be good to soft-code (as opposed to hard-coding ) creatures types. Just about everything is data driven in Dark Engine, so could be the creature types.
If New Dark could support any arbitrary skeletons, we could add facial expressions. New tools for exporting skinned meshes would be needed, but that's a minor problem.

2) Oh, and please upgrade model's .bin format to support more polygons. It's really a bottleneck right now. (it's been mentioned by somebody else, I'm just up-voting it)

3) Please support transparency for shadow casting (think foliage etc...)

4) Please support pixel-shading (normal and specular maps). I disagree the community won't know what to do with it.

5) Please have brushes and models refer the materials - not the textures. Currently it's not possible (or extremely inefficient) to have one material referring to the same texture.

6) Please support more models in modelTweq. I'm thinking of hundreds, not of 5 or 6 more. This would allow us to cache some mesh animations in 3D apps and play them back in game with controlled rate.

7) custom actions triggered by keyboard or mouse.

8) and... or... if none of these are possible, please release the New Dark engine to the community, when you think You are not able to dedicate any more of your time to this project. (which would be pretty understandable).

---
I really wish there was some dialogue going on here between the New Dark creator and the community. Not that I don't appreciate the effort and what we've got already, but the thought, that we might be stuck with the current version of the engine forever seems a bit disappointing.

[Cardia]

Tannar, vfig and PinkDot i´ve added your suggestions to the Thief french forum , let's hope Le Corbeau will stumble upon it and consider to add some of the features you've suggested for the next NewDark update (assuming there will be another NewDark update).

[Ryan Smith]

An RNG metaproperty. Min and max range can be customized.

[Nameless Voice]

I'd like the ability to copy/cut and paste text into the command window instead of having to type it every time.

For pasting, you can write a simple AutoHotKey script to set up a type-clipboard key:

;
; AutoHotkey Version: 1.x
; Language:       English
; Platform:       Win9x/NT
; Author:         Nameless Voice
;
; Script Function:
;	Type-paste hotkey
;

; Remove the comment on the line below to disable the tray icon
; #NoTrayIcon

#NoEnv  ; Recommended for performance and compatibility with future AutoHotkey releases.
#KeyHistory 0
SendMode Input  ; Recommended for new scripts due to its superior speed and reliability.
SetWorkingDir %A_ScriptDir%  ; Ensures a consistent starting directory.

^#v::
	Send, %Clipboard%
return

Save as .ahk, run on system startup through AutoHotKey, and then use windowskey+ctrl+v to have it type whatever is in the clipboard. It will work in any program that doesn't support paste.

[Independent Thief]

Doesn't NewDark use the Dark Engine source code?
Isn't that a copyright violation?

[PinkDot]

Doesn't NewDark use the Dark Engine source code?
Isn't that a copyright violation?

It does use the original source code indeed. I don't know if that's the copyright violation, but I know that the New Dark is available for free and it increases sales of games that are 20 years old now.
Any attempts to shut down the project would be a completely wrong thing to do, from a business point of view and not only. It's like having an enthusiastic employee, who does the work for free and brings money for the company while making other people happy. What's wrong about that?

[voodoo47]

It does use the original source code indeed.

I think there's actually no way of confirming this - only the Raven knows how exactly the magic works.

[Unna Oertdottir]

Going back to 1.18 isn't an option, however. OldDark isn't even a NewDark feature. Topic.