TTLG|Thief|Bioshock|System Shock|Deus Ex|Mobile
Page 12 of 12 FirstFirst ... 2789101112
Results 276 to 289 of 289

Thread: The Decline of the Debate and the Rise of the Far Left and Right

  1. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    And when have I done that? Quote me. For the umpteenth time, Rachel Maddow is not a journalist. She's a news commentator.



    When a Pulizer prize winning journalist says it, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of a doubt. Especially with all the government scandals that have come out.
    I've linked you Pullitzer prize winning journalists before and you were extremely skeptical even after evidence was provided. Specifically, the evidence in question was NSA documents proving that they have backdoor access to every major tech server.



    Here, take your pick:
    The Weinstein scandal reported by The New Yorker. And this is a story where even police investigations were successfully suppressed, let alone news stories. That means the press was more successful in uncovering it than the police was.

    The Panama Papers.

    The Washington Post uncovering Roy Moore's dirty past.

    The LA Times uncovering sexual abuse of hundreds of young women.

    Top Secret America, about the growth and mismanagement of secret organisations in the US.
    Aside from the Top Secret America one (which was from a right wing news organization and more or less proves that the "Deep State" concept isn't a right wing conspiracy theory) al of these stories follow a pattern.



    Overall though most people think you're wrong. Trust in the press is extremely low across the board (from polls taken before Trump ever announced his candidacy, so don't blame "attacks on the press") and the accuracy of American media outlets is lower than Al Jazeera and BBC. US media are literally less factual than state sponsored propaganda.

    *****

    To the earlier point about "private companies".

    Here's one question I don't have the answer to. Here's a relevant headline first: https://ussanews.com/News1/2019/06/3...kamala-harris/


    Democratic Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren suggested Saturday that tech companies have an obligation to ding tweets and other social media posts that call into question one of her presidential opponent’s American lineage.

    “The attacks against @KamalaHarris are racist and ugly. We all have an obligation to speak out and say so. And it’s within the power and obligation of tech companies to stop these vile lies dead in their tracks,” Warren said in a tweet, following a post Donald Trump Jr. retweeted that asked if Sen. Kamala Harris is an “American black.”


    If a tech company censors political statements at the behest of a government official, does the "it's a private company" logic still apply? There's a sane case to be argued either way.

    *disclaimer: the talking point in question was one that originated with a Daily Show (I believe) clip that mocked her "blackness".
    Last edited by Tony_Tarantula; 2nd Jul 2019 at 10:21.

  2. #277
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    I've linked you Pullitzer prize winning journalists before and you were extremely skeptical even after evidence was provided. Specifically, the evidence in question was NSA documents proving that they have backdoor access to every major tech server.
    I very much doubt this happened the way you claim it did. Quote me where I did that. Go ahead. Given your track record, either the article didn't actually say what you thought it did or you argued against an imaginary opponent as you are wont to do or it actually didn't happen at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    Aside from the Top Secret America one (which was from a right wing news organization and more or less proves that the "Deep State" concept isn't a right wing conspiracy theory) al of these stories follow a pattern.
    How do things as different as the Panama Papers, the Weinstein scandal, the opioid epidemic, and rogue police squads follow a pattern? And since when is The Washington Post a right-wing news organisation? You asked me for an example, I gave you ten, even going as far as to provide links to five of them. And there's more where that came from.

    And Top Secret America in no way proves the right-wing deep state conspiracy theory. Alone the simple fact that the FBI counterintelligence investigation into Lord Dampnut was kept under wraps during the election and wasn't leaked to the public disproves it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    Overall though most people think you're wrong. Trust in the press is extremely low across the board (from polls taken before Trump ever announced his candidacy, so don't blame "attacks on the press") and the accuracy of American media outlets is lower than Al Jazeera and BBC. US media are literally less factual than state sponsored propaganda.
    It doesn't matter what most people think. People believing something doesn't make it true. What matters is that the press is doing an invaluable service and has done some excellent reporting over the years.

    In any case, as usual, you're wrong: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bnyha...eport-2018.pdf

    It explains your willingness to believe blatant propaganda, though.

  3. #278
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia

  4. #279
    I’m Dude that study you linked me shows trust in the press at 30%.

    Way to prove me right. That’s At the high end of the general ballpark which is between 20-30%

    Columbia Journalism covered that and their conclusion was “Trust in media was down. Again.”


    https://www.cjr.org/the_media_today/...media-down.php

    “For journalists do good work”. You’re deliberately and dishonestly conflating journalism with large, corporate backed, American outlets and implying that it’s synonymous with left leaning corporate journalism.

    It is not. You’re attacking a straw man. Nobody said journalism is worthless. I am saying that independent investigative reporters are more valuable because they are less impacted by the social and “access” incentives that cause corporate outlets to bury stories. One example I can think of was when a regional paper pulled an editorial that was critical of John Deere because John Deere was an advertiser who complained about the column.

    As for me “Believing in Propaganda” well...I’m not the person who upholds news organizations teeming with “former” CIA and DoD officials as bastions of amazing journalism.

    The Pulliter Prize winning Journalist in Question was Glenn Greenwald, who incidentally had been extremely critical of recent reporting and has documented numerous blatant lies on the part of establishment press.

    You also don’t seem to understand what “Deep state” means. The term existed before Trump and is just a catch all phrase referring to the bevy of unelected and unaccountable agencies in the government. It doesn’t mean “People who are out to get Trump”. You don’t need to worry that you’re a kook for believing that: roughly 80% of Americans agree that a deep state exists so long as you don’t call it a “deep state”, and instead just ask them whether the definition is an accurate description of affairs

    Anyways...DNC Congressman says “People making fun of congress should be prosecuted”.


    Video https://mobile.twitter.com/RealSaave...43587811258370
    Last edited by Tony_Tarantula; 4th Jul 2019 at 10:07.

  5. #280
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    I’m Dude that study you linked me shows trust in the press at 30%.

    Way to prove me right. That’s At the high end of the general ballpark which is between 20-30%

    Columbia Journalism covered that and their conclusion was “Trust in media was down. Again.”

    https://www.cjr.org/the_media_today/...media-down.php
    Learn to read, once and for all. 30 percent is the trust among Republicans. The very same Republicans who are on a steady diet of talk radio and Fox News and being told constantly how untrustworthy the media is. For Democrats, it's much higher. For the general population, it was 55% in the survey I linked to. And the poll Columbia Journalism references only confirmed what the Poynter Media Trust Survey said, that trust had been declining over the decade, but has rebounded recently. Finally, as I said, it doesn't matter how many people believe something, it doesn't therefore make it true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    “For journalists do good work”. You’re deliberately and dishonestly conflating journalism with large, corporate backed, American outlets and implying that it’s synonymous with left leaning corporate journalism.
    You're the one who's deliberately and dishonestly using isolated incidents to smear the media, going as far as to portray a homeless hacker as a mainstream journalist. I'm still waiting, btw, to hear what major publications he was reporting for.

    As I said, again and again, journalists are not perfect or infallible. They do make mistakes. That does not diminish from the excellent work they produce as a whole. And the Mueller Report was a complete vindication in the face of the relentless smear campaign they have been under in the US. So many things journalists had been reporting and so many things they'd been accused of fabricating turned out to be completely true. Like the fact that Lord Dampnut ordered McGahn to fire Mueller, which was first reported by the NYT and called fake news. And there were many more such stories that the Mueller Report confirmed were completely true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    “The Pulliter Prize winning Journalist in Question was Glenn Greenwald, who incidentally had been extremely critical of recent reporting and has documented numerous blatant lies on the part of establishment press.
    As I said, quote me where I questioned the article you were referring to. Glenn Greenwald does have his own problems, including complete blinkers when it comes to Russia, but I don't think I have ever put anything he reported about the NSA in doubt. Go on, prove me wrong and quote me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    “You also don’t seem to understand what “Deep state” means. The term existed before Trump and is just a catch all phrase referring to the bevy of unelected and unaccountable agencies in the government. It doesn’t mean “People who are out to get Trump”. You don’t need to worry that you’re a kook for believing that: roughly 80% of Americans agree that a deep state exists so long as you don’t call it a “deep state”, and instead just ask them whether the definition is an accurate description of affairs
    Career civil servants have always existed and there is no reason to believe there is a sinister conspiracy behind it beyond your typical Yes, Minister stuff.

    Also, it's not just a catch-all phrase. It's pretty much used in conjunction with "Obama holdovers" and to suggest there are people working against Lord Dampnut in secret as a sort of a shadow government.

    Also, what does unelected even mean here? Quite obviously not everyone in the government can be elected and it's pure nonsense to even suggest it. Not to mention the expansion of the secret agencies took place with the explicit approval of the elected officials and the wrongdoings likewise were shielded by them.
    Last edited by Starker; 4th Jul 2019 at 16:46.

  6. #281
    If the term "Deep State" just means that, then why the hell did it exist before Trump even announced his candidacy?

    Again you can't stop yourself from the dishonest conflations. "Civil Servants" aren't the same thing as what we're actually talking about. Literally nobody pictures some county clerk when they say "Deep State". They're figuring some shady FBI or CIA official doing shady shit like MKULTRA. Or the NSA spying on literally everyone with backdoor access to every email sent (which, if I recall correctly, you vehemently denied and when presented with documents claimed they were "fake" despite them coming directly from the document dump)

    Not to mention the expansion of the secret agencies took place with the explicit approval of the elected officials and the wrongdoings likewise were shielded by them.
    Which happened largely under Bush, and the shielding of such wrongdoing was spearheaded by a president you borderline worship.



    *****

    Actual reason I came here:

    Facebook changed their policy to ALLOW death threats.

    I shit you not. Feel free to brows the policy (linked) for the actual text: https://www.facebook.com/communityst...ible_violence/


    “Do not post: Threats that could lead to death (and other forms of high-severity violence) of any target(s) where threat is defined as any of the following:

    Statements of intent to commit high-severity violence; or

    Calls for high-severity violence (unless the target is an organization or individual covered in the Dangerous Individuals and Organizations policy)….”

    Basically, if someone at Facebook deems you as a "hate" person then it's allowed for people to make death threats and organize violence against you.





    You all need to be VERY careful what you wish for. Contrary to what most of you all believe a civil war is almost a guaranteed defeat for the left. I can explain why but what is actually likely to happen in that scenario is millions of deaths by starvation and the US is split between a far right dictatorship and territories occupied by other governments. Simply logistics involved make it almost impossible for the left/government alliance to win any civil conflict, so those of you all who secretly want this are being extremely foolish.
    Last edited by Tony_Tarantula; 11th Jul 2019 at 09:44.

  7. #282
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Location, Location
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    Actual reason I came here:

    Facebook changed their policy to ALLOW death threats.

    I shit you not. Feel free to brows the policy (linked) for the actual text: https://www.facebook.com/communityst...ible_violence/

    “Do not post: Threats that could lead to death (and other forms of high-severity violence) of any target(s) where threat is defined as any of the following:

    Statements of intent to commit high-severity violence; or

    Calls for high-severity violence (unless the target is an organization or individual covered in the Dangerous Individuals and Organizations policy)….”
    Your link literally doesn't say what you quoted.



    You're incredible, Tony. In so many ways.

  8. #283
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    It did exist in the form Tony described for a short while, but it was meant to cover such things as calling for terrorists to be bombed and demanding the death penalty for murderers, not for any of the nonsense Tony was spouting.

    As for the Turner Diaries crap, go home, Tony, you're drunk.

    And as for Deep State, for once and for all, learn to read, Tony. I literally said the opposite, that it's not just a catch-all term, but has also acquired a very specific meaning over the couple of years in the right wing echo chambers.
    Last edited by Starker; 11th Jul 2019 at 11:47.

  9. #284
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Bahaha this guy actually thinks there's some contigent of the far left that wants align itself with the state? Does he even know what we actually stand for? If anything, our extreme fringe wants to team up with working class republicans and lead a populist uprising against the state.

  10. #285
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Trance View Post
    Your link literally doesn't say what you quoted.
    The problem is that you're all suffering from cognitive dissonance driven by your confirmation biases to refuse anything that sounds outside your leftist echo chamber.

    BUT ORANGE MAN BAD AMIRITE OLOL

  11. #286
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by froghawk View Post
    Bahaha this guy actually thinks there's some contigent of the far left that wants align itself with the state? Does he even know what we actually stand for? If anything, our extreme fringe wants to team up with working class republicans and lead a populist uprising against the state.
    Not to mention there's a bit of a leap from Facebook posting ambiguously worded community standards to government-backed antifa death squads bursting down the doors of conservatives in an all-out civil war.

  12. #287
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    All point A's can go straight to point Z so long as you believe in yourself.

  13. #288
    Taking the Death Toll
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: someplace better than this
    You know I have to commend you guys for giving Tony the time of day. I used to think TTLG would be better off with the likes of him banned, but to be honest you're probably preventing a mass shooting by keeping him busy. Keep up the good work.

  14. #289
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Returning to the topic once again, the great right-wing philosopher Lord Dampnut recently laid out his views on what does and doesn't constitute free speech:

    https://www.mediaite.com/news/trump-...gerous-speech/

    He talked about how Silicon Valley is admired for their technology and how smart they are, but that they don’t “using that brilliance” fairly. “They have to do that.”

    “And we don’t want to stifle anything, we certainly don’t want to stifle free speech. But that’s no longer free speech,” said Trump. “See I don’t think that the mainstream media is free speech either, because it’s so crooked, it’s so dishonest.”

    “So to me, free speech is not when you see something good and then you purposely write bad, to me that’s very dangerous speech, and you become angry at it,” said Trump. “But that’s not free speech.”
    In a nutshell, the media should stop covering fake news, such as government corruption and incompetence, and start covering real news, such as the Democratic Party being run by satanic pedophile cannibals.
    Last edited by Starker; 12th Jul 2019 at 01:00.

Page 12 of 12 FirstFirst ... 2789101112

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •