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Thread: Random thoughts...

  1. #51
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    We usually didn't have to take cards out of the deck at the beginning, but it was pretty much the same exact game.
    I do not remember what the game was like when we got first introduced to it, but it started to evolve quite fast due to frequent play (lots of free time to kill in dorms when the computer-wing of the school got closed early). Having to remove some random cards from the deck was one of the things we ourselves introduced to it - to help prevent draws coming from 4-same-value-card-discard clashing with "exam" mechanics.

    The random card removal and multiple card cheat (which seems to be a very common variant) are the only changes i know for sure we made ourselves. Maybe the "exam" part was also our modification (?). Don't remember. Have not seen anything like that mentioned anywhere else - unless i am blind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    There are lots of games like this...
    My google-fu must be craptastic. How did you find it?

  2. #52
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by zombe View Post
    My google-fu must be craptastic. How did you find it?
    I've played lots of card games with people from all kinds of places. A deck of cards used to be an easy and cheap source of entertainment before it was replaced by everyone staring at their smartphone screens. And this game has a name that's extra memorable, because you have to say it during the game.

  3. #53
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    It was in the movie "Failure to Launch". Pretty awful movie but had a few mildly amusing parts. Mostly we play trash talk Uno which is the same as regular Uno but with outlandish pronouncements of dominance and imminent victory which are nearly always proven immediately wrong.
    Last edited by Tocky; 18th Mar 2020 at 00:47.

  4. #54
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    I just got banned from facebook for a day. Someone asked a question and I answered it honestly and straight forward with no nonsense. Then they said they didn't care. So I said "Wait. You posted just to show your stupidity on a subject? Well done. You succeeded." And then they reported me and of course facebook in it's wisdom has chosen to have no humor or cognitive ability. It truly is a crappy system they have set up. Republicans will fish for photos of yours they can deface and place online for simply posting links to reputable news which debunks whatever lies Trump has claimed twenty times a day but facebook will never take YOUR OWN PHOTOS which have been stolen down. They suck. They seem to be set up to allow for abuse. Of course a lot of this could be avoided if I just let the Russian trolls and white nationalist get away with lying or if I used a fake account. Facebook has shut down the ability to create fake accounts to some degree but it's not impossible as any Internet Research Agency operative can tell you. It's just made it harder on the honest folks.

    Still not going to shut me up. I'll just use words like ignorance or reasoning disabled or something. I'll have to test those out when they let me back on.

  5. #55
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2003
    I regularly roast sunflower kernels. Turning them means letting them fly and hoping they'll land on the not yet roasted side. Let's assume that most of them do. One hypothesis, that I like to entertain, to why this might be, is that the centre of gravity slightly shifts towards the not yet roasted side, and inanimate objects, when falling, have a natural tendency to flip around so that the centre of gravity is below the visual centre, meaning that the kernels are more likely to land on their least roasted side.

    Why would the centre of gravity shift when a kernel is being roasted? One explanation -- among possibly many other -- could be that moisture trapped inside the kernel evaporates more from the side being roasted than the side not being roasted, meaning that the local specific weight decreases.

    More experiments are needed to a) see how many kernels on average that flip and if that amount is (significantly) higher than it would be if the process was random (in which case half of the kernels would flip (on average)), and b) determine why that is (if it in fact is).

    Of course, all of my initial assumptions might be false: Maybe it's all random. Maybe there is no moisture at all inside an average sunflower kernel. Maybe the centre of gravity doesn't shift even the tiniest of tiny bits. That's why more experiments are needed. An alternative hypothesis is that I have too much time on my hands, but -- like any other hypothesis -- this too needs to be either proven or disproven through more experiments.
    Last edited by qolelis; 10th Mar 2020 at 08:10.

  6. #56
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    My random thought for the day was, somebody should set up a system that makes neural nets self-modifying and algorithmic (including algorithms to self-modifying the algorithms themselves). There's not really any hard law that says what functions you can make out of a neural net. Classically, people have been so unimaginative. Like an arrangement of pixels go in, and you decimate the activation space until you extract features and pick out objects, so it could tell you this is a flower or a kind of truck. But the kinds of features they extract could be quite abstract, and like I was saying you can link them to algorithmic outputs, and some of those outputs could be instructions that change the weighting of the net itself. Then you could have some evolutionary set up that randomize weighting conditions and keep the ones that maximize performance and cull the ones that fall below a certain threshold, etc.

    I then went on to thinking about applications to my natural language gen project. But that's a whole article by itself I should make at some point.

  7. #57
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure lots of people have had that thought. I think the obstacle is getting the algorithm to identify use case scenarios for modifying its operating conditions. We don't have neural nets with the kind of sophistication to make useful judgements or decisions for themselves yet.

  8. #58
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    and like I was saying you can link them to algorithmic outputs, and some of those outputs could be instructions that change the weighting of the net itself. Then you could have some evolutionary set up that randomize weighting conditions and keep the ones that maximize performance and cull the ones that fall below a certain threshold, etc.
    Isn't that called "the learning process" of the neural network ?

  9. #59
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Sulphur actually got into where my thinking was going, which is the real trick here isn't that process by itself, it's parameterization, at least the way I was thinking about it. You structure the problem in terms of a narrow set of parameters that vary in structural ways, then the system can manipulate its decision-making space within the scope of those parameters. So I started thinking more about that than the general method per se.

    It is the learning process, but the versions I always saw, the code was doing some tricks to sharpen the neural net output, but it wasn't the output literally acting on its own hidden connections, which then dynamically changes the outputs and that kind of cycle. It seems like that could descend into chaos, but that's where the parameterization comes in. This is all very abstract though. I won't really know what I myself am even talking about until I start playing with this for a real application.

  10. #60
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Lockdown... if only
    That reminds me a little of genetic algorithms, which were all the rage when I was an undergrad. First you parameterize the problem space, then define the degrees of freedom and their limits, and finally the cost and/or fitness function. In simple applications, the parameters and degrees of freedom are just discrete or continuous variables, so the genetic algorithm is effectively just a multi-dimensional search, and not a particularly efficient one, so the method fell out of favor. However, there is no reason why the degrees of freedom can't include function space. I remember some of my fellow students applied a genetic algorithm to optimizing the design of a lifting body as their senior project, where they gave the algorithm a selection of different design heuristics to apply or not apply as it saw fit. It was a challenge because the different design methods had different parameter spaces. Beyond that, you can put a computer algebra system e.g. Maple inside a genetic algorithm, and apply it to problems where the solution is a not a set of numbers but a set of equations. For example, suppose you want to find a multivariate polynomial that fits a data set within certain errors bounds, and your cost metric is the number of variables in the polynomial, or maybe a better metric is the computational complexity of evaluating the polynomial.

  11. #61
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2019
    Location: Restaurant at end of universe
    Quote Originally Posted by Tocky View Post

    Yesterday as I did it I said the perfunctory "nevermore" and started to walk away when one of them said "neh mo". I was stunned. I said "never more" and one said "neh mo" in response again.

    So what's your random shit ?
    Mine is putting songs with things. The crow could be saying Nemo - if that's the way the crow pronounced the word. There is a song by Nightwish called Nemo and it has crows in it.

  12. #62
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Interestingly, after I posted that I saw peter_spy (aka Judith?) also posted a video showing their evolutionary neural net for a little virtual RC car learning a track. There's lots of people doing lots of different little variations on the theme, so it's not easy to sum up. It's interesting to follow anyway.

    I'm fascinated by setting up a self-learning system and watching it gradually approach some "solution", not always the solution we're thinking about. (I think I told my story from my AI course about the robot arm that learned to knock its platform to the side to drop the thing in the bucket before.) One application I'm curious about is feeding it a scientific literature in some field and let it approach some "conclusions" it can extract, and see what it comes up with.

  13. #63
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    I had a strange dream I'm sure was Corona virus related. I arrived at a dinner party held in a stone mansion atop a hill. We sat at the table in formal dress and held pleasant conversation over wine with everyone ribbing each other good naturedly. As a platter of meat was passed to me I noticed the fellows wrist begin to sprout hair and looked into his face seeing a snout and teeth. It startled me but just as I acknowledged it in my mind his face returned to normal. Another fellow to my right leaned forward and pointed at him saying, "Ha! I saw you change! Don't deny it!". "I never did!", he replied. "You did! You did! I saw you you lying liar from liar town!" And then HIS face changed to a wolf and back briefly. Then they both laughed as if it were the most natural thing. I was horrified.

    Another fellow did it and denied it as everyone poked fun only he was denying it AS he was a wolf which made everyone laugh harder. Soon they were all going back and forth from human to animal and kidding each other. I noticed a lady at the opposite end of this large oval table biting into a slice of beef with long sharp teeth and looked down at my portion which was hardly seared at all and very bloody. When I looked back at her there was blood running down her chin. Worse, she was staring directly at me. "Well what are YOU looking at?" she said, smiling a wide smile full of bloody pointed teeth. I fumbled for something to say, something which would cover the fact I was the only one not changing, but all I could think was "the better to eat you with" which she found uproarious. She tilted her head back and laughed a way too wide laugh.

    The table, which was raucous before, became quiet and everyone stared at me. They were no longer changing but that didn't make it any better. They all looked like lunatics and I was scared shitless. There was an air of expectancy and I suddenly wondered why I was here with all these well dressed people I didn't know. I looked down at my hands and set my knife and fork down carefully saying, "Oh look, I didn't wash my hands, I'm sure I passed a lavatory down the hall. I'll just wash up then, excuse me". Every head turned and every eye watched me leave, all of them smiling in silence, some with smears of blood on them.

    I stole my way down the hall and into the first door I came to which was a kitchen. There was a fire with a large kettle on a hook over it. I slid the bolt over as quietly as I could but there were no low windows and the ones there were were too high and narrow. I looked into the drawers and cabinets for a weapon but everything was utterly bare. The pot over the fire was empty as well. The whole place looked medieval but there were no fireplace pokers even. I sat down at a rough hewn table and tried to gather my thoughts. Directly I heard a soft rapping at the door and a soft male voice say, "are you alright in there?". Then there was a lot of tittering laughter and snorting as if behind hands. That scared me so bad I woke up.

    I lay awake for a bit thinking how strange a dream it was and how vivid.

  14. #64
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    That reminded me Grimm, the now ended TV show. Have you seen it?

  15. #65
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    I caught an episode or two but it never grabbed my interest as I hadn't followed it early on. I think where some of it came from was Poe's Dr. Tarr and Professor Feather and Masque of the Red Death. Throw in some Universal Studios props and it made a nice scary little vignette. Nearly all my interesting dreams are nightmares.

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