My thoughts on the idea that "Mobile is the future of gaming"

[Sulphur]

It's not the game itself but the circumstances around it. Honestly Blizzard can make all the F2P mobile games they want (as I said before, from a business perspective, it makes total sense to have some of those on the market), as long as they show something concrete that they still care about their core audience, the ones who got them to the plateau they are on, and want to create new content for them. That is where they are failing. That's why there is almost a sense of betrayal by Diablo fans, and even fans of Blizzard in general. Not to mention how every thing that they have said since has done nothing but to give people further reason to be concerned about Diablo Immortal and the future of the company.

Blizzard has, in the last decade, taken its sweet time making follow-ups to any games in its established franchises. The gap between Diablo 2 and Diablo 3 was 12 years. They never said they weren't making another full-spec Diablo (the idea of which to me remains: sigh), but you have a bunch of people going ballistic over a mobile release. It's ironic that you have adults throwing tantrums like the children who'll probably discover Diablo Immortal as a fun lightweight game. This talk about a sense of 'betrayal' over something inconsequential is just entitlement masquerading as butthurt. Yeah, Blizzard could have communicated their relative lack of news better. Get over it and find something productive to do with your time instead being a squealing manchild.

[Gryzemuis]

Wherein Grizzlemuse writes a thousand words and establishes his own absurd taxonomy just to say he prefers games with exploration and a story.

There clearly weren't enough words in my post. Because you didn't get the gist.
My post was not about what I like personally.

I tried to explain that there are 2 very distinct things. And both of them are called games.
When talking about "games" people can have very different ideas about what they are talking about.
I got the feeling most players on this forum like the type-2 (immersive) games. So when talking about games, they mean immersive games.
While maybe the majority of people playing games think about the type-1 games (farmville, angry birds, solitaire, etc).
That's very relative for the discussion at hand.

[froghawk]

Oh, come on. They lost a lot of their core audience when they decided to make an MMO. Then they lost more when they decided to make a MOBA and a card game and a first person shooter. They've made all of one RTS in the last 15 years, and the one Diablo game they made in the last 18 years had cartoony graphics and a lot of mechanical issues. Why does the core audience still have these expectations?

[Bucky Seifert]

Oh, come on. They lost a lot of their core audience when they decided to make an MMO. Then they lost more when they decided to make a MOBA and a card game and a first person shooter. They've made all of one RTS in the last 15 years, and the one Diablo game they made in the last 18 years had cartoony graphics and a lot of mechanical issues. Why does the core audience still have these expectations?

That comes off to me as more whining that Blizzard branched out and did other things, rather than just RTS games and occasionally an ARPG. I mean I'd get sick of making nothing but RTS games after a while.

[Nameless Voice]

I don't even get the appeal of mobile games. I've never felt any desire to play any games on my phone, apart from one time several years ago when I had an old Windows Mobile device with a stylus which could run Lemmings.

The screen is too small and the controls too awkward to play anything meaningful. If I'm bored with my phone, I'd rather just read a book on it.

Maybe I just haven't met any good phone games?


There's also the fact that the Play Store is so filled with apps and has no good way to filter or find anything that it's usually not even worth trying to find anything there.

[Bucky Seifert]

I don't even get the appeal of mobile games. I've never felt any desire to play any games on my phone, apart from one time several years ago when I had an old Windows Mobile device with a stylus which could run Lemmings.

The screen is too small and the controls too awkward to play anything meaningful. If I'm bored with my phone, I'd rather just read a book on it.

Maybe I just haven't met any good phone games?


There's also the fact that the Play Store is so filled with apps and has no good way to filter or find anything that it's usually not even worth trying to find anything there.

If you want some good games to recommend, I'd check out Card Thief, Galaga Wars, Crossy Road, OK Golf, LYNE, Deus Ex / Lara Croft / Hitman GO, Fruit Ninja, Friday the 13th, Cat Quest, Wayward Souls, Eternium, Fallout Shelter, Polytopia, Antihero, MechCom 3, Pocket City and Reigns are all ones that get my recommendation.

There is also the option of emulators. Most I've used play quite well on my phone.

And you are right, the Google Play store is FLOODED with garbage shovelware and pay to win bullshit it's insane.

[ZylonBane]

I tried to explain that there are 2 very distinct things. And both of them are called games.

And you are so up your own ass that you can't comprehend how laughably reductive this false dichotomy of yours is. It's just as dumb as if I said there are two types of games: Type 1 games, that have cars, and Type 2 games, that don't have cars.

[froghawk]

That comes off to me as more whining that Blizzard branched out and did other things, rather than just RTS games and occasionally an ARPG. I mean I'd get sick of making nothing but RTS games after a while.

I mean, I would too, but how is this different? Did any of the warcraft fans really want an MMO at the time? Did Diablo fans want a game that wasn't from Blizzard North in the cartoony WoW style? Did any of the fans of any of those games want a moba or a card game? And now, all of a sudden, everything is different because they decided to make a mobile game even though they've already been clearly aiming for the casual market for a while now? Am I missing something here?

[Pyrian]

It's just as dumb as if I said there are two types of games: Type 1 games, that have cars, and Type 2 games, that don't have cars.

...And then cited GTA as a game without cars...

[MrDuck]

Hi, I heard there was butthurt going on and I wasn't invited.

I brought my own cream.

Hi.

<3

[Malf]

Just want to note that despite the popular opinion of people who haven't played it, Diablo 3 certainly isn't cartoony. This all stems from the non-controversy about the game being too "colourful" generated by internet idiots prior to the release of the game.

[EvaUnit02]

Just want to note that despite the popular opinion of people who haven't played it, Diablo 3 certainly isn't cartoony. This all stems from the non-controversy about the game being too "colourful" generated by internet idiots prior to the release of the game.

So the finished 2012 game's art direction wasn't impacted by criticism prior to release, rite?

[icemann]

By making Diablo 3 online only, and telling people who only wanted singleplayer to go jump lost them a lot of fans, when they fell into the development hole that Origin fell victim to (with Ultima Online) with World of Warcraft and focused 100% on that and nothing else for a long time, that lost them a lot of fans. Prior to WoW when they went back and retconned the Horde to only being "evil" due to demonic influence, and then for Star Craft 2 changing the Zerg to only acting the way they did due to outside influence (I forget the name of them), that lost them fans.

People reacted the way they did at Blizzcon because nearly everyone there were PC gamers, who had paid for tickets + flight costs, accommodation etc, to be told to go get a mobile if they didn't like it. Blizzard for the longest time was PC focused. It's PC hardcore (and not casuals) gamers who put the company where it is. And Blizzard were like well we're big now we don't need you, we're going mobile. So of course the fans were going to pissed.

You go to a Blizzcon and it's hardcore PC gamers that are going to see making up 99.9% of the audience. I'm quite surprised that many here have been like "The fans were whiny bitches" etc etc. Course their going to be pissed. Their lifelong fans of the series since Diablo 1.

I'm surprised EA didn't get boo'd from the crowd for their C&C mobile game. They sure got savaged online afterwards. If your going to have a franchise that's aimed at a particular platform / genre / whatever, your going to build up with each game a base of fans. Every long running franchise has them. Any time a series changes direction massively your going to see a MASSIVE backlash. You saw it with The Bureau - XCOM Declassified, C&C (as mentioned), Fallout etc etc. People have a right to complain and voice their anger at companies that drastically change direction with a series / only put forth a game in a franchise that steers off in a completely different direction.

[froghawk]

Sure, but the extremity of the gaming community's response to anything gets WAY overblown. My point is they should know better with blizzard by now. They haven't been a PC exclusive company in a long time. Diablo 3 was on 7 platforms. Overwatch was on 3. Saying '99.9%' of blizzard fans who would go to a con in 2018 are PC gamers seems a maaaaajor stretch.

Just want to note that despite the popular opinion of people who haven't played it, Diablo 3 certainly isn't cartoony. This all stems from the non-controversy about the game being too "colourful" generated by internet idiots prior to the release of the game.

I have played the demo. While perhaps cartoony is the wrong word, I still didn't feel like the visuals fit. It had the art style of every other Blizzard game.

[Sulphur]

I'm quite surprised that many here have been like "The fans were whiny bitches" etc etc. Course their going to be pissed. Their lifelong fans of the series since Diablo 1.

If you act like a whiny bitch, you get called a whiny bitch. It's not complicated. If you don't like Blizzard's decisions, don't give them your money. It's not difficult. There's a difference between rinsing social media for drama and being an adult about it. Also, where exactly did Blizzard say they didn't need their established audience? Because if you and the people from the con are reading that implication from a mobile release announcement, that's some creative next-level interpretive semantic dance going on in your heads.

I got Diablo 3 when it was a couple of bucks many years later, because I wasn't going to pay full price for a decision I didn't agree with. I got some fun co-op out of it, and that's getting my money's worth as far as I care. Blizzard doesn't get my support where it counts for them, and I'll consider giving it when they do something worthy of it.

[froghawk]

It's been a long time since any major developer has truly been a PC developer. That age is over.

[icemann]

Meh.

As to the original post, I don't think mobile gaming will be all there is with gaming. Not all games on mobile are for the casual audience. Some at least have a hardcore element. I played Dungeon Keeper on mobile for a few years *avoids rotten tomatoes* and that is a very hardcore game if you get into the tournament side of things. Pokemon Go has a hardcore side to it, if your going to go trying to get every pokemon, every evolution etc etc. Has raiding too. Never bothered with that.

[Pyrian]

If you act like a whiny bitch, you get called a whiny bitch.

Hey! Sulphur! You're being a whiny bitch. And you're managing to do it about something less consequential than Diablo having a mobile version.

Nothing more pathetic than the backlash to the backlash.

[Sulphur]

Hmm. You may have a point, but then what about the backlash to the backlash to the backlash? Is that like some order of meta-pathetic, or if I play a dour piano solo to it, do we say, pathétique?

And reread my post, maybe? I know it's hard to gauge tonal didacticism, which I fully cop to, versus actually whining about shit, but do try.

[Malf]

So the finished 2012 game's art direction wasn't impacted by criticism prior to release, rite?

Not really, unless you take into account Whimsyshire, which was Blizzard thumbing their noses at the interweb drama queens.

[driver]

Thing is, I haven't seen a lot of what I'd call 'whining' about Diablo Immortal, I've mostly seen criticism of Blizzard's cack-handed announcement and their bafflement when people weren't excited to see one of their favorite series getting a mobile-only release, which (if it is anything like NetEase's other games) is going to be riddled with micro transactions. Sure Diablo has moved onto consoles, but it has always had a PC release, and for Blizzard to make this the big end-of-show announcement, it seems to be like they've really misread their core audience (ie. The people who pay to turn up to these conventions).

Sure, I don't really care a fig if they make a mobile-only version of a Diablo game, I'm never going to play it. But I can sympathize with the fans who'd been teased with a big Diablo reveal only to be shown this knock off.*

*I say knock off because from what I've seen it looks and plays like a re-skinned version of NE's other titles and Blizzard have stated that they've worked with NE only to develop the art assets. No word on anything like the engine and such.

[TannisRoot]

I don't even get the appeal of mobile games. I've never felt any desire to play any games on my phone, apart from one time several years ago when I had an old Windows Mobile device with a stylus which could run Lemmings.

The screen is too small and the controls too awkward to play anything meaningful. If I'm bored with my phone, I'd rather just read a book on it.

Maybe I just haven't met any good phone games?

Same here. Maybe it's just an age thing. I could see emulating a jrpg or Pokémon if I still cared about that sort of thing, but anything else and the screen is too small / touch controls too awkward, not to mention the battery wouldn't last for anything extensive. If I wanted a handheld gaming experience I'd probably just choose a 3DS, GBA, or a Switch these days.

I can see mobile gaming being big among kids who don't have access to traditional gaming platforms, which admittedly is going to be LOTS in the Chinese market, but other than that it's hard for me to see how mobile can compete with handhelds.

[froghawk]

It could be nice to have a controller attachment that goes around the phone and also has an extra battery pack to make it more viable, kind of like the attachable keyboards.

Idk, I've never owned a handheld platform, but I have played some mobile games. My favorite was still Deus Ex: The Fall because it did a pretty incredible job of converting Human Revolution's gameplay and feeling to a mobile setting. Of course, that makes it a double-dumbed-down-deusex, and thus it didn't translate at ALL to PC, but I saw a lot of potential for immersive mobile gaming when I played that. I do think Gryz's 'type 2' is very possible on the platform.

[TannisRoot]

yep, and diablo 3 is supposed to be even shallower. I'm not sure why warren spector of all people thinks diablo II is a 'special' game and still has it installed to this day, though I did love it as a kid. I did a quick replay of it as an adult just to see what the online component was like, and it mostly consisted of skipping big chunks of the game (or doing a lot of it out of order) between high level players jumping in and doing all the hard parts for me, which seems like a bit of a design flaw. At least the original game had a lot of atmosphere and was shorter and harder.

Hence me thinking the series would make BETTER mobile titles than pc titles. I don't get the outrage one bit.

The online component of Diablo 2 is what made it special imo. It's why things like build viability weren't that important because you were always in a team and could always contribute even if it was suboptimal. It wasn't a big deal to experiment and make joke / esoteric builds like it would be in solo.

That said, today's online playerbase is very different than what you had back in the day. All the casual players have moved on so now you are left with the hardcore grinders / min-maxes and a whole lotta bots. You can set level requirements on games, but there probably isn't enough players these days. Not a lot of people left just making games to enjoy the content. That said what made Diablo special has probably been eclipsed by games like Path of Exile and Grim Dawn by now. Although Diablo 3 is a great casual version of the formula.

I don't know what OG Diablo fans expect from the franchise. I didn't even realize there were OG fans left after 3 lol

[icemann]

The other thing is that this is the first new Diablo game in 5 years and it's a bloody mobile game. Course people are going to be pissed off.

Not all mobile games are bad mind you. I used to spend ages in Fallout Shelter. Shame the game gets quite shallow after a while.