This thread is for any discussion or questions related to the mission In & Out by FrenchDecay, JarlFrank & marbleman.
You can download the mission HERE or HERE.
The contest thread is HERE.
Please give clues instead of outright solutions when helping others and use the spoiler tag when you do this.
Remember that this mission, and by extension every mission made for the contest, is for THIEF GOLD. As such, do not load it with Thief 2! It is highly recommended you do not use the Enhancement Pack and/or HD texture packs to play this mission. It is also recommended you uncheck all optional features TFix comes with if you update to the latest version of the full executable.
This FM really captures the atmosphere that the surreal parts of Thief Gold has. It goes on and on, which in this mission is not a bad thing, especially if you take into account how varied it is (when you play it you'll know what I mean). Congrats to the authors!
Directory entry with 3 mirrors so far:
https://www.thiefguild.com/fanmissions/7493/in-out
I must be stupid or blind:
Where is the hammer down in the crypt? I'm pretty sure I've been everywhere but must have missed it. Any clues?
@Aekoric
On the lowest level of the crypt, look for an exit into another area.
now this is a amazing mission so well done,i like everything about it
This mission was a nice break from all the puzzles and hyper-mantling I've been doing. Its quality makes it feel like it was shipped with the original OMs 20 years ago. My biggest shock was when the burricks started eating me instead of just belching. They used to be so cuddly!
Absolutely incredible mission.
spoiler:
Most of the major TDP themes were covered, including some thieve's guild.
The crypt section was the highlight for me. Very nonlinear and interesting.
The angled tight tunnels section was particularly cool. So much loot to hunt.
The maw section was quite visually pleasing as well.
The only complaint I can think of is the difficulty in some areas.
Too many speedy burricks so close together in the lost city section for example.
Definitely on my recommended/favorite list.
This was awesome fun! Nice, simple conceit, and I loved the way it kept expanding and ended up as a sort of Thief 1 greatest hits.
It was also really fun to ghost - not too tricky, not too easy, some great tense bits. Not sure if it was designed with ghosting in mind, but it almost all works really well. The only bit I couldn't ghost was the second red crystal in the maw, with two bugbeast things standing guard. Didn't seem to be any way past them without alerting them.
The turboburricks are my absolute favourite.
Thank you all for playing!
Nick, at some point, both bugdemons turn away, so you slip in and out (lol) and flip the crystal. It requires a bit of luck for both of them to face away long enough though!
Thanks for playing, I like the idea of TG greatest hits
Marblebuddy is the one who made sure the mission is ghostable, I'm sure he'll be super glad his efforts were noticed
Especially because of the hours he's spent fixing my dromed shenanigans
What a fantastic mission! Here's my short review:
Atmosphere
+ The mission superbly combines the most characteristic themes present in the original game.
+ "Hammerites". The church is correctly designed. No level design wonders, but I understand that the temple was just a cover-up and introductory space for the underground zones. Still, it was an atmospheric preludium.
+ "Thieves Guild". A visually-pleasing maze.
+ "Bonehoard". Non-linear design, lots of various rooms to go. Some parts of the crypt were very scary and claustrophobic. Proof that you do not need to make explicit jumpscares, in order to frighten the player. Well done.
+ "Lost City". Another great tribute to LGS. Loved the underwater craymen tunnel. Were those fireballs dynamic? They didn't seem to mind my presence.
+ "The Maw". My favourite part of this zone was the slippery ice ground with pools of lava in between. Amazing level design.
+ "Strange Bedfellows". Damn, looks like Constantine got here before me! Very nice ending.
- My only objection is related to audio effects and loops. It's not that they are bad or something, but for the greater part of the mission, my brain just didn't consciously receive them. Even though I always pay attention to music in fan missions. Maybe because gameplay and the visuals were so absorbing? That might be the case.
9/10
Gameplay
+ No crazy loot requirements. Getting it was a highly enjoyable task, not a boring chore.
+ No frustrating keyhunt/switch-hunt.
+ Many different enemies to deal with. Challenging patrol routes in some places (e.g. The Maw).
+ Resized/remade monsters. Speedy burricks with a new attack were a huge, somewhat scary surprise to me. The bug-zombies proved to be an interesting addition, definitely foes you need to be wary of. My jaw dropped when I saw craymen casually strolling underwater. The battle with that huge blue craybeast and baby craymen is a part of the mission worth remembering. Finally, the grey bug-alien (they made me think about JIS' mission called UFO) in the Maw were extremely scary opponents. Great job!
+ The quantity of enemies necessitates the use of different tools and weapons. On one or two occasions, food from the kitchen and healing potions saved my life when I alerted too many enemies. I liked that, really challenging.
+ The differentiation of sections slightly necessitates changing your tactic every time you meet new enemies.
+ Non-linear level design allowed multiple approaches to gameplay. Both fighters and ghosters should be satisfied.
+ Voice acting and briefing.
10/10
Story
+ Simple and informative text/video briefing.
+ Plot twist when you learn that the relic was stolen. Not so "in and out" job as it seemed to be.
+ Another surprise when you return from the Maw.
+ Solid grammar in the readables.
+ Interesting readables in the "human sections". Especially the note about that thief who went down the hole.
- Not enough storytelling in the "monster sections". I would like to see an additional objective related to finding something either in the Bonehoard or in the Lost City. Or maybe some tomb plaques to read? Lost Keepers' expedition? Anything that captivates player's attention.
- The storyline was solid, though I wouldn't consider it the best part of the misson. I don't know why, but I feel that something was missing. Well, it wasn't on the same level as e.g. "Calendra's Cistern"
8/10
Verdict
One of the best Thief 1 missions I have ever played. Gorgeous level design, jaw-dropping gameplay and interesting story. Thank you guys for your hard work and effort. Much appreciated. Also, don't worry too much about drawbacks I mentioned. They are insignificant.
I'm stuck. I've been in and out of the Hammerite church, after learning that the hammer was stolen. Garrett said a line that I couldn't hear, as it was obscured by the "new objective" sound, and the objective text only says that I need to "track down" the hammer. So I have no idea where to look! There was a mention of a manhole, but the only manhole I could find led down into the forge and the only other way out of there just led back to the church. What am I missing/forgetting?
Edit: Oh right, there's the locked door down in the forge, which I guess is where I need to go? The only key I've found is the Priest's Key, which doesn't unlock it (and I don't know what it does unlock). Where should I be looking?
Last edited by vfig; 8th Dec 2018 at 07:54.
@vfig: The sewer key is on the table next to the letter, in the priest's room. As for Garrett's line, he just says that someone has beat him to the Hammer, so he'd better get after it.
Ah, thanks! I was crouched and in a hurry to read the letter and get back to shadow before the fast-walking priest got back, so no wonder I didn't see it!
Thoroughly enjoyed this mission as it had just about everything in it one could expect from a T20 contest FM. So thank you FrenchDecay, JarlFrank & marbleman.
Who made which parts of this mission?
The Church of St. Martello was simple to navigate and all the loot is easily found, but a few hidden areas would have been fun to discover as would have been a few more books and scrolls to flesh out the day to day lives of the occupants.
The sewers and Thieves den were well done, a little more complex than the church, but is there a way to disable to particle barrier? I wanted to get back to the church but could find a way to do so from the sewers.
The Crypt was just superb, well done to whoever built it, spectacularly well designed, confusing and clever with some well hidden loot (had to resort to Dromed to find it all). Loved every minute of it. And who's idea was it to have zombies spitting bugs swarms, don't remember that in the OM.
Lost City area and The Maw were classic T1 styled areas, simplistic design with looks just about what one would expect as a homage to the OM, the only thing I felt was that both of those areas were a little predictable, there were no surprises or OMG moments, which I was half hoping for after having spent such a monstrously good time in the crypt, making the last couple of areas feel like a bit of a let down in comparison.
Overall a great mission so thank you all for you hard work.
Last edited by fortuni; 8th Dec 2018 at 11:54.
Thanks!
Regarding your question:
The particle barrier can be deactivated but not from the caves side. However, you can still get back to the upper sewer without deactivating it..
Regarding who was responsible for what (spoilers, obviously):
The idea was mine, though the original concept did not include the Maw; instead, there was going to be a huge cave system before the Lost City. FrenchDecay was the one who came up with the Maw idea, and we decided to ditch the caves pretty early on. Then, I wrote the story and all of the readables.
FrenchDecay was the one who came up with the idea of spicing up old creatures with new behaviors, and all of these are set up by him.
As for who built what:
The church, crayman caves, and Maw are by me. The sewer and the temple area of Lost City are by FrenchDecay. The crypt is the only section with significant contributions from all of us: JarlFrank made the main chamber and the immediate side rooms, I added the top and bottom levels, and FrenchDecay did the middle level. The crypt is our favorite as well.
Had great fun in this mission with lots of homage to the TDP game.
Like others I maybe thought it was going to be a shorter mission than most when I came across the St Martello Relic plinths in the church - but of course it wasn't, and it didn't disappoint. Some challenging enemies - loved the turbo-burricks and bug-zombies - but enough shadows, corners and weapons to deal with most of them. Was kinda glad the air and fire elementals turned out to be non-hostile!
Hoping for a simple exit back at the church so surprised to find how "hot" things were on my return (respect for the novice continuing to sit things out on the toilet). Thanks to all involved.
Thank you for playing! Also yeah, fire/air elementals have always been annoying but I figured they could do for some cool lights and a way to mess with players too
Glad you enjoyed it
The objectives are displaying in German. Is there a way to change them to English?
- Have you played other contest missions yet? If so I assume they played correctly?
- Are you using the same Thief installation for this mission?
- Did you make any config or install changes since playing the previous mission?
- Open the file install.cfg (in your root Thief folder) in Notepad or any text editor. What language is set in it?
Last edited by Yandros; 10th Dec 2018 at 11:16.
1. Yes, and yes.Originally Posted by Yandros
2. Yes.
3. No.
4. The third line says language english+german+french
Ok, I've never seen multiple languages defined like that in there, it is probably something TFix or FM Sel does. What loader are you using? If it's FMSel or NewDarkLoader, look in your FM folder for In & Out and go into /intrface/miss22 and see if there are folders for english, german and other languages. The english folder might be missing. Also, does the mission name on the main menu show in English or German? What about book texts (if you made it that far)?
Last edited by Yandros; 10th Dec 2018 at 12:34.
I'm using FM Sel, with TFix v1.26. There is no English folder in \THIEF\FMs\TDP20AC_In_&_Out_1_0\intrface\miss22, nor in the folder above it. The main menu displays TDP, not the FM name. Difficulties and Objectives show in German. I haven't got to a readable yet.
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