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View Poll Results: For the Thief 2 20th Anniversary Contest (TMA20), which would you prefer?

Voters
145. You may not vote on this poll
  • Authors are limited to only stock and stock-derived resources (like with the TDP20 Contest)

    104 71.72%
  • Authors are allowed to use any resources they wish

    41 28.28%
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Results 26 to 50 of 163

Thread: Thief 2 20th Anniversary Contest format - Poll Closed

  1. #26
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Location: Full on Kevel's mom
    Quote Originally Posted by Psych0sis View Post
    I uh... I assume any mission we could be working on now won't be allowed to be submitted even if they're only about 10%~ done?
    That's correct.

  2. #27
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    important message to all doing contest entrance's "Dewdrop" is allowed also don't forget golden child is also allowed,i kinda feel bad golden child had such a small part in thief 2,from my memory i remember only 2 missions with golden child,one was when you had to do life of the party in a room he was chilling and of course last level down that massive hallway in soul-forge

    i am not sure if intruder painting was in stock t2? or the fruits/grapes?

    also the stained glass ctfr 14 and 15 should be in t2 stock

    weird no one ever made a mission about the golden child,seems like so much could have been done

  3. #28
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2017
    Hey now, slow your roll downwinder, too much information at once! That is certainly an important announcement though !

  4. #29
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Steve, stained glass ctfr 14 and 15 are not part of Thief resources , they are textures i found in fan quake 3 arenas, sure they are beautiful, but rules are rules, that's how they want.

  5. #30
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by downwinder View Post
    important message to all doing contest entrance's "Dewdrop" is allowed also don't forget golden child is also allowed,i kinda feel bad golden child had such a small part in thief 2,from my memory i remember only 2 missions with golden child,one was when you had to do life of the party in a room he was chilling and of course last level down that massive hallway in soul-forge

    i am not sure if intruder painting was in stock t2? or the fruits/grapes?

    also the stained glass ctfr 14 and 15 should be in t2 stock

    weird no one ever made a mission about the golden child,seems like so much could have been done
    "Dewdrop" is 'unnecessary', as it appears in almost every FM already.
    Golden Child though, yeah, I agree about it not being used much, but it's probably because he himself doesn't have much use.

    Maybe it can work well in a horror-inspired FM? Or perhaps act just like in Thief2, appears out of nowhere through an event (script, reading a note)?

  6. #31
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    ty cardia for info i had no idea kinda breaks my heart as i liked them so much

    and ty you all for thoughs

  7. #32
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    I just wish that just because Thief 1 assets will be available, FM creators will not abuse it and make a lot of monster mission. Thief 2 is about dealing with security, not fighting stupid monsters. It was good for Thief 1 Contest. I really wish to see more robot missions. They (robots) are really underused in Thief 2 FMs.

    And by the way, what's the point including Thief 1 assets. TDP 20 worked only on Thief 1 assets, so shouldn't TMA 20 work only on Thief 2 assets?

  8. #33
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    I think it's a good idea to include Thief 1 assets, considering LGS had access to them while making Thief 2. A lot of original textures and models were remade for Thief 2 with better colour depth/resolution etc (Ruined, City etc.), but I think the really important thing that allowing Thief 1 assets provides are the innumerable audio files not included in Thief 2. Ambients, sfx and AI voices are seriously lacking in Thief 2, even down to little things like tensionX.wav files (those discordant audio stings that happen in Bafford's Manor etc.)

    I definitely agree about not putting monsters in Thief 2, though. The ethos of TDP20AC was to make dark and gloomy levels with tombs and supernatural creatures (and what an amazing collection of those we got!). I personally believe the general spirit of TMA20AC should be to make missions with a City Watch/Art Deco/Victorian aesthetic and a pure focus on stealth and theft (e.g. no enemies that can't be dispatched silently a la zombies). The style of older Thief 2 FMs like Heist Society/Art of Thievery etc.

  9. #34
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Location: Montpellier, France
    Galaer: The rationale behind including T1 assets for the T2 contest is because LGS had access to all of them when they made T2. Obviously they axed a lot of them in the end, but it made sense for me and Yandros to include them.

  10. #35
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2007
    Location: Krull Island, in the pub
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkBogan View Post
    I think it's a good idea to include Thief 1 assets, considering LGS had access to them while making Thief 2. A lot of original textures and models were remade for Thief 2 with better colour depth/resolution etc (Ruined, City etc.), but I think the really important thing that allowing Thief 1 assets provides are the innumerable audio files not included in Thief 2. Ambients, sfx and AI voices are seriously lacking in Thief 2, even down to little things like tensionX.wav files (those discordant audio stings that happen in Bafford's Manor etc.)

    I definitely agree about not putting monsters in Thief 2, though. The ethos of TDP20AC was to make dark and gloomy levels with tombs and supernatural creatures (and what an amazing collection of those we got!). I personally believe the general spirit of TMA20AC should be to make missions with a City Watch/Art Deco/Victorian aesthetic and a pure focus on stealth and theft (e.g. no enemies that can't be dispatched silently a la zombies). The style of older Thief 2 FMs like Heist Society/Art of Thievery etc.
    Couldn't agree more. Personally I'm not an undead fan, but somehow I managed to go through all the TDP20AC missions on highest difficulty level, however, I often felt disturbed and uncomfortable by the nearly unbeatable undead here and there. The essential Thief 2 atmosphere is more calm and sophisticated, less raw than Thief 1 was. So, when celebrating Thief 2, it would be good to focus on the calm atmoshphere of big mansions with heartwarming wooden surfaces and cosy carpeted rooms & corridors, and stleath at its best. City and thieves highway missions would also be welcome if we follow this path.

  11. #36
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2006
    Location: Antarctica
    Keep it original. I think the T1 contest has showed us that original stock is more than capable to deliver top quality missions

  12. #37
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2008
    Location: Poland
    I voted on the stock resources.
    I think that the current contest has shown that beautiful and really creative missions certainly CAN be done with stock only, and keeping it that way is a great means to maintain the vibe of the original games as well as encourage more people to enter.
    I totally agree that custom resources are more than okay most of the time, just not in a contest which is meant to celebrate the original games.
    T2 stock + T1G stock is the best way IMO.

  13. #38
    New Member
    Registered: Dec 2017
    Location: Saxony/Germany
    I voted

  14. #39
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: Cracow, Poland
    Please, divide this contest into two categories. I beg you. (Voted for any)

  15. #40
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2006
    Location: Nulli Secundi
    I vote stock as well. Karras in every mission!!! Love that voice! All hail the name of Karras, the name of Karras, the name of...

  16. #41
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: 0x0x0
    Had to go against the grain here. If I were to fire up the 'ol girl and had to paint a brick wall with that Shipping & Receiving texture I'd 'bout want to blackjack myself unconscious. Even the old Vigil texture pack has gone stale years ago...and those put any OM textures to shame...brilliant they were.

    Now the TDPG20 most certainly had a lot of great missions but I kept thinking about how much better they could have looked with a touch of new sprinkled around.

    Choosing a pallet or new resources like objects for a mission doesn't take any time at all compared to building the thing. Take a mission with stuff you like for yours, get permission if necessary, nab the resource folders and gamsys file and your off and building. What's that take? A few hours? Why not limit poly counts to around 350? It's what LGS had to do?

    New dark has taken what we can do with Thief to a whole 'nuther level. Why pretend it's still 1999? It's a great idea to celebrate the legacy of LGS but why not celebrate the INSANE amount of talent that has taken that legacy and run with it for 20 years as well?

    Anyhoo....just my .02$

  17. #42
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    One of the reasons I think there is so much support for 'stock/stock-derived resources only' rule is because an Anniversary Contest is the only place that such a restriction actually makes sense. Basically every other FM I can think of uses some custom resources, even ones committed to a stock aesthetic (Melan's Disorientation, Skacky's Endless Rain etc.). As far as I know there has never been a contest besides TDP20AC that was limited to stock resources; not even the Classic Thief Experience contest ten years ago.

    I would hate for every FM to be limited to stock -- that would have likely killed off FM authorship within the first few years. It is only for these 20th Anniversary Contests that anybody is suggesting the community should stick to stock resources. That's two contests, out of ~30 contests and >1000 Thief 1/2 FMs ever. I don't think that's an unreasonable amount.

    Besides, the Editors' Guild shows a number of custom-resource FMs are currently in development... I'm sure 2019 will see fresh new releases.

  18. #43
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    ^well said

    also using stock textures you can use textures that have meaning in t2 game for example ,you can use certain textures to convey a feeling of being in a area of the om by using those textures,so it can imply some connection to om missions,i personally think its a great opportunity to expand the thief universe with in the community

    a good way to look at it is ,what in thief 2 om's did you always wonder about in a deeper way from a map aspect,for example life of the party could have other parts of the city added to it to expand it using om textures making the story deeper

    can be done for any level

    the best recent example is from last contest one mission was an expansion of thieves guild a area a lot of speculation was written about,so many area's i would love to see expanded with om textures


    "a area i always wanted to see expanded was at the end of "ambush" mission you open gate to shalebridge but never end up going there till t3,i always anted to see that part of map expanded,can be done for any part of t2 maps that did not have access to before,also on same map when close to your house a bit south west is a gate that is never open to see to access north western part of city,that is just one of many ways to look at using om textures in a way that can be true to t2 as this contest is all about

    also there are many other ways to use om texture to make it make more sense ,but i am sure what i put is good enough to prove a point

    also second part of trace the courier the forest area was over all small and could be expanded,even the maw it self can be massively expanded,as we truly never had a map of that area in full

    if anything i feel thief 2 has more options then thief one in ways to approach to rules of contest,the bank also is also a area that can be expanded from outside=a complete map around bank giving banks location on a grander scale with out having to even access it,just have it be a point of interest in contest

    people who dont like rules can just make a mission not part of contest with textures/etc they want,gives people doing missions a better chance to win

  19. #44
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkBogan View Post
    As far as I know there has never been a contest besides TDP20AC that was limited to stock resources; not even the Classic Thief Experience contest ten years ago.
    Nope, there was.

    https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105740

    Quote Originally Posted by DirkBogan View Post

    I would hate for every FM to be limited to stock -- that would have likely killed off FM authorship within the first few years.
    I think you're very wrong there. I think the poll in this thread proves that point.

  20. #45
    IMO it goes down to what you really want to celebrate. By allowing custom resources you're accepting all the weirdness, wackiness, and diversity that is in FMs landscape today. How it all has been changing beyond LGS's intentions since the game was released. By sticking to stock resources... you just celebrate that an old game was released 20 years ago. The only people who can distinguish themselves here are good level designers. Which is important, obviously, but it's not the only important aspect of making maps.
    Last edited by Judith; 7th Feb 2019 at 03:34.

  21. #46
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: Cracow, Poland
    This poll is pointless.

    Clearly there are very good points for both stock resources advocates and custom resources supporters. Both ways just sound resonable to me. And if we divide our community to two significant groups, lets satisfy both of them.

    Let's make a second contest for the loosing option at Thief Guild, when this poll closes.

  22. #47
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Ireland/Poland
    Quote Originally Posted by downwinder View Post
    also using stock textures you can use textures that have meaning in t2 game for example ,you can use certain textures to convey a feeling of being in a area of the om by using those textures (...)
    Nothing stops authors from constraining themselves to stock resources, if they truly think this would be a value in their mission.

    Really, this poll is about:
    How many people can participate in the celebrations of Thief 2 anniversary?:
    - ~75 % (stock only)
    - 100 % (stock + custom)

    The community made a choice, which is driven by nostalgia and some other irrational factors, in my opinion.

  23. #48
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    Having evaluated the arguments of the last few speakers, I agree with downwinder.
    Last edited by marbleman; 7th Feb 2019 at 06:50.

  24. #49
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: Argentina
    It's easy: You want make a custom resources FM? That's cool, you can still make it, but not a contest entry. We've had plenty of custom resources FMs in the past years, so I don't get all the fuss over stock-only missions. This last contest has proven that authors can still make awesome missions without custom stuff or sending Garrett to planet Mars, and it's been quite successful.

  25. #50
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Ireland/Poland
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkMax View Post
    It's easy: You want make a custom resources FM? That's cool, you can still make it, but not a contest entry.
    Oh, really, can I? Thank you for your generosity!

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