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Thread: Going backward challenge for Thief Gold and Thief 2

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018

    Going backward challenge for Thief Gold and Thief 2

    I have decided to do very awkward run - beat both Thief Gold and Thief 2 while the only movement option will be moving backward.

    RULES


    You can:

    1. Walk backward.

    2. Look around (turn left, turn right included).

    3. Jump, mantle.

    4. Crouch.

    You can't:

    1. Move forward in any way: run forward, walk forward, slowly move forward (for Thief 2).

    2. Move left/right (strafe).

    3. As a bonus - leaning in any direction is forbidden.

    THIEF GOLD

    I expect this run to destroy my face. Moving backward I used so far to move quietly on metal slopes, but to move always that way will be very uncomfortable. It will be a problem to KO moving guards. Also a problem will be grabbing ropes. Luckily for Thief Gold I learned how to grab ropes on my no jumping/no mantling challenge, but it will not work in Thief 2. Jumping to ropes will be tough, because Garrett only grabs rope when he face this rope. So I will need to very fast turn around to grab it. And the same goes with jumping+mantling. Speaking about jumping - my jumps will be really bad. In Thief Gold though there exist jump acceleration, but I don't know if it works with backward jump. And the last problem is swimming. This will be the biggest problem in this run.

    A KEEPER'S TRAINING

    BREAKS: 0


    First problem is at the beginning. Very first stair require a jump. The rest is annoying, but doable. I also tested jump acceleration and it works. Grabbing rope was easy - just crouch under it and stand. Then climb up by facing ground and moving backward up. Jumping out of it is the only thing that I'm gonna do forward. Jump over water is possible without jump acceleration. And for mantle I needed to just get close to platform, unlike what I do normally: jump+mantle.

    STATS:

    TIME: 9 min 16 s

    MISSION 1 - LORD BAFFORD'S MANOR

    I found a way to KO moving guard - wait on his path and time your blackjack with him. He only managed to first alert. Getting into the sewers was tough. I had problem with grabbing ladder. I went down by facing up and going backward down. I was forced to return to ladder, because the last ladder is too high and I couldn't grab it with backward jump. I skipped spider cave, because it's tough to swim down. Water wants you to float up, which is trouble some for this run. Also there is small current which change yours position, so it's very hard to swim into underwater cave. I was drowning a lot. To get out of water I needed to mantle.

    For the first 2 real guards I abused their dialog. After they separated a little I quicksaved and quickloaded. I ran to walking guard and KO-ed him. In the mansion itself I managed to KO walking guard from behind. So it's possible. Still it took me 6 attempts. I KO-ed 3 guards that way. The other 2 guards patrolling near throne room I KO-ed by waiting in shadow for them. The second guard noticed me, but reacted a little too late.

    I entered the throne room via secret entrance and immediately noticed how hard is to douse torch under me without leaning. I also tested jumping+mantling and looks like it's not that hard like I imagined. And noticed another thing I didn't know - if you drop backward from platform you can cancel this by mantling. I don't know if it will be ever useful though. Also I realized that it's a little easier to navigate backward walking by looking on the floor or ceiling while walking. And one more thing - if you look max down while walking, Garrett stops. But if you are walking on stairs (this probably works on other slopes as well), Garrett doesn't stop walking.

    STATS:

    TIME: 59 min 20 s
    LOOT: 1329/1429
    DEALT DAMAGE:19, RECEIVED: 0
    BREAKS: 0

    MISSION 2 - BREAK FROM CRAGSCLEFT PRISON

    This mission is first difficulty spike. I worry mostly about zombies and the first obligatory water at the beginning. I still remember my experience with water in the previous mission. This one is easier. First of all there is no current. Second - there is no swimming downward. But it's not that easy. The route isn't simply and change direction few times. Also there are wooden beams at ceiling, which can stop you. I think it's possible to beat it without drowning and getting hurt, but I bought speed potion for this part, which actually helped me a lot. And by the way, this underwater tunnel will not be my exit route. I'm gonna use exit at Level 3 of the mine, because it doesn't involve swimming.

    Climbing the mine wasn't very hard. Jumping over gap to get a loot I managed to do on my first try, but I accidentally felled out of the ledge. I didn't save and going back onto ledge took me 10 tries. And the same amount of tries. To the highest floor of the mines lead steep slope. I climbed on it very slowly. On the other hand I almost did no noise.

    First meeting with zombies was really scary. One of the zombies noticed me when I was walking to the shrine and other appeared behind me and scared the hell out of me. I was scared, because zombies were walking the same speed like me. Luckily they slowed a little when I went behind corner. On the other hand I got stuck few times on the benches. Finally used holy fountain and killed 2 zombies. I lost 1 HP, because of fly explosion from one of the zombies.

    I dodged skeleton trap by crouching. I had a little problem with getting loot via ladder. I found out that going close to ladders, turning around and jumping, helps to grab ladders. For getting out I needed to use south exit, because at the north is very steep slope that I couldn't jump and mantle onto.

    I entered Hammerite compound via stairs. I figured out later that I made mistake. I should have used elevator. I couldn't KO Hammerite behind right door, so I skipped him. Instead I went to control room, douse right torch and KO guard. I used control panel to open gate to area close to elevator. Then I went to factory, jump out of ramp and quickly walk to prison area. I started from 3,4 guard room. Unfortunately I couldn't KO guard. Too much light and in this run I can lean forward. Also I noticed that there is no way to KO guard in search mode from the front without leaning. I believe that walking behind him backward and trying to KO him would be extremely tricky. It doesn't help that behind this Hammerite is water stream that would help me avoid factory on my way out. And I don't have any flash bombs.

    I entered 1,2 guard room. Easily KO-ed guard and disabled camera. Getting to guards in control rooms and KO-ing them was easy. In the barracks I skipped loot in the room with priest talking to novice. Also I didn't KO guard walking outside.

    I decided to chose getting out with Basso through underwater river in 3,4 guard room. I used noise arrow and then went to river. Unfortunately Hammerite noticed me and during my escape I lost 2 HP. I had problems with getting out of water. Walking with body backward in the water is hard. But I found a place to very slowly ascend. I had luck - on highest floor of mine there was no zombies anywhere nearby. Still felled into elevator shaft. Then I just rode to Level 3, went down by using 2 ladders and got outside.

    STATS:

    TIME: 1 hour 25 min 42 s
    LOOT: 1478/1688
    DEALT DAMAGE:147, RECEIVED: 3
    BREAKS: 0

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2017
    May as well link these here: I did this challenge back in September 2018. Never did most of the levels, but it wouldn't be hard.

    Training in 3:04

    Bafford's in 55 seconds

  3. #3
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2019
    Not this shit again.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Very impressive run, Amorphous. I don't know how many mission you beat that way, though. I only noticed 2 videos of this going backward challenge. You said that this challenge is easy for you, so I wonder how would you beat Lost City water section. It's pretty long section and swimming backward is very slow.

    There are some differences between yours and my run. I didn't specified this, but I'm playing on expert difficulty. Also I try to get as much as possible loot. Another thing is I forbid for myself leaning forward, which, I believe, prevents doing Gentle Clip through walls. Another difference is - I'm playing on Tfix 1.26 a, which means on Newdark. Other than new mantle I don't really know what are the differences between Olddark and Newdark. So I wonder if these glitches are possible on Newdark as well.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2017
    There is an exploit to get walking speed in the water, so I'd just use that. Also I think you can get breath potions? Between that and health potions it shouldn't be an issue. And yeah, some of the stuff isn't possible in newdark.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    MISSION 3 - DOWN IN THE BONEHOARD

    In this mission will be even more zombies and another obligatory water. Also ropes, maze and burricks. In other words this will be a hell of the level. Beginning of the level is a little tricky. There is very steep slope surrounding this area and higher up tomb with goblet. To get there I found a line between slopes on the right from the tomb I needed to enter. Thanks to that obtaining goblet was possible. I missed the rope. Luckily I didn't receive any damage. Then I decided to jump onto another rope with turning around midair, because when I dropped, I bounced off the rope. Then I used my sword to defeat zombie.

    Obligatory water was really easy to beat. And my problems really started when I hit burrick area. Normally burricks are really dangerous enemies in this run. I tried kill them with sword, but when going backward it's very dangerous thing. I died few times trying to clear them. First burrick I escaped from and went to water cave with 5 fire arrows. It was easy to avoid trap by crouching. Then long and annoying climb to 3 burricks area.

    I managed to kill first burrick with just 1 arrow. I didn't thought it's possible. The other 2 burricks weren't big problem either. I just shoot them until they started to run away. Also at the entrance to the cave I was entirely safe from their gas. But if they feel cornered they can restart attacking me, so I was forced to climb vine fast. Then I entered the proper part of catacombs.

    Lower level is full of zombies. I went quietly to a room with purple vase and golden bone guarded by 4 lying zombies. I douse the torch and used holy water to eliminate lying zombies and the other zombies. I was also forced to use 4 fire arrows, but fire arrows only kill zombies in 1 shot if they aren't in hunt mode. 2 lying zombies room is easy to beat without waking zombies by just jumping between them.

    Golden bone in water section gave me more trouble. It requires swimming underwater and Garrett is terrible with descending in the water while swimming backward. So I went to the area above this golden bone and felled down. I grabbed golden bone and used the fact that falling from high makes Garrett descend into water faster. Then I swam to the crack in the ceiling. All that can be done without using speed potion and without losing health.

    To get to Mystic's Heart area I jumped and turn around to touch ladder. I woke up zombie, but ignored him for now. Then there is single burrick area and maybe it's possible to ghost it by dousing torches. I didn't do it and burrick noticed me. I was forced to escape to the next room. It's not safe place, because of magic bolts traps. I felled on first beam, then jump acceleration to the end and drop on another beam. Then I jumped on beam on another beam. Now is harder - I jumped down when magic arrow was under me and dropped on lower beam which is on the middle, so it's a little harder to place yourself. Then is just a drop and you are at the bottom. Navigating statue maze was tricky, because different perspective and I also forgot the route. Getting Mystic's Heart was easy. I just crouched and moved around haunt. Return was a sweet revenge on burrick and KO-ing him. Then I used ladder, dropped quietly behind zombie and KO him with a sword.

    Getting into fireball trap room was easy, because fireball is shooting at the right side of passage, so left side is safe. Marad Family tomb was just a case jumping onto rope and turning around to grab it. I tried to overcomplicate it with jump acceleration. That's why I died few times. And I overcomplicated my return out of it. I stood in front of plaque and used backward jump acceleration to return to stone ramp. I noticed later that probably single jump from side of wooden platform would be enough.

    Obtaining Horn of Quintus was more scary than hard. It has some jumps to ladder above pit. But that's all. After getting horn I dropped onto ladder and jumped out. Few jumps to ladders above pit later I was at the bottom. After that is the most scary part of mission. I KO-ed single burrick at the left and start my run. Burricks noticed me pretty quickly, but jumping backward helped me to make distance. Getting to the exit passage was a little problematic though. I got really scared when one of the burricks went through exit passage after me. I returned quickly to magic arrows area, went down and jump+mantle across the gap.

    Hammer tomb was easy - just go around the trap. Also all this collecting golden bones and I forgot where was the last one. Sigh... So I went for Mystic's Soul. First I doused 3 torches, then shot 3 water arrows at fire shadow. Then I stood above metal plate and shoot 5 fire arrows at torches. With the fall boost I managed to beat last underwater segment quite easily. Avoiding traps was also quite easy. I just needed to exit. I used my last water arrow to douse torch above ladder. I waited for respawned fire shadow to pass me, then I felled down and quickly ran to the gap and jump+mantle over it. Going to exit wasn't any problem at all. There is just very steep slope with a step, which needs to be passed by jumping backward instead of mantling. Slope also make Garrett walk very slowly.

    STATS:

    TIME: 1 hour 40 min 38 s
    LOOT: 2400/2450
    DEALT DAMAGE:170, RECEIVED: 0
    BREAKS: 0

    MISSION 4 - ASSASSINS


    Oh my God, tailing mission while going backward. Yeah, this is probably the most frustrating part of this mission. 2 assassins took really long route and it took me almost 7 min to get to Ramirez Mansion. The biggest problem isn't hiding in shadow, but keeping pace. They are walking in similar speed as Garrett and few areas are well lighted. To tell you the truth I wasn't really hiding from them for most of the time. I got few first alerts. Also I didn't knew layout of this city and route of assassins, so I had a problem few times figuring out were they went. I remember that on first area with slope ramp, I mantled and quickly went into shadow. Assassins only first alerted on me. I had also problem with metal surface. Metal bridge require going slowly and there are few routes assassins can take. I had a lot of problems finding them on that part. Metal slope going downward was another problem. I needed to go slowly, otherwise they start looking for me. And last short metal surface I didn't even noticed. Luckily assassins only first alerted on that. Anyway, I managed to appear in front of Ramirez Mansion.

    Here I noticed that KO-ing patrolling guards make them notice you. But it's too late for them to do anything. I had a little problem with guard guarding front door, because for a very long time he was observing door. I thought that he got stuck in this view. Then I went outside to the left in order to get to Ramirez room. I managed to jump onto edge of steep roof, then mantle and mantle onto balcony. I looted this place and the only problem I had with getting out of secret passage. Garrett kept getting stuck there. Luckily after few times I managed to exit.

    2 patrolling guards surprised me. I KO-ed the first one, second guard noticed a body and ran to launch the alarm. So I went a little ahead, but it wasn't full shadow and second guard noticed me again. I decided to wait for second guard to pass, go after him and KO him. Then I looted rooms and eventually KO-ed first guard. I went through secret passage in library downstairs and completed my loot objective.

    I stood in shadow near inner courtyard and was running after walking guards to KO them. This took me 10 min and I had luck, because there was always guard walking nearby not close to another. First floor was easy. In basement by mistake I went to the kitchen and something weird happened. Bell rang, servant entered basement with food, he went few steps toward me, stopped, plate with food vanished and servant just went back to the kitchen. Weird. Ko-ing Ramirez was tricky, because this bastard has random route. He killed me few times.

    Then I went back to the exit and got objective to return home. I thought: "What the hell? I didn't launch the alarm and nobody saw the bodies! Is it a bug on 1.26a?". And then I noticed him. He was standing in shadow, opposite to Ramirez Manor. Servant probably from dialog upstairs. I didn't KO him. He probably went to the front entrance and noticed my pile of unconscious bodies. It's not like I didn't planned doing this objective, but I wanted to have a choice.

    I couldn't use water, because current was too strong. Luckily there is plenty shadow, so I managed to ghost area to the shop where I started this mission. Guards look and sound like they are in search mode, but actually they normally patrol the areas. That's an interesting discovery. I KO-ed one more guard and went to the house. It was easier than I thought. I also noticed existence of stone lock underwater that leads to Lost City. Beating water passage will be probably the biggest challenge in this run. Luckily there is still few missions before that.


    STATS:

    TIME: 1 hour 21 min 21 s
    LOOT: 2705/2705
    DEALT DAMAGE:16, RECEIVED: 0
    BREAKS: 0

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