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Thread: Mosque Shootings in New Zealand

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Mosque Shootings in New Zealand

    News in today of a group of 4 people who went in to two separate mosque's in New Zealand, armed to the teeth. Killed 40. 1 of them was streaming the whole thing to Facebook. I've seen the video myself, but wont share it. Horrible stuff.

    Link to article.

    This is what happens when people filled with nothing but hate, get access to guns.

  2. #2
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    The news was comparing the video footage to that of a video game oddly. Due to the camera angle from the shooter where all you see is the arms holding the rifle.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: New Zealand
    It seems the guy was quite into the awful side of gamer culture. It's a clear sign that that subculture and its fascist leanings need to be seen as the serious threat that they are, if we don't address them then we'll never be able to prevent repetitions of this atrocity.

  5. #5
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Probably didn't help that the killer also says "subscribe to Pewdiepie" in the video. I wish I was kidding.

    https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/15/1...a-manipulation

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: the Sheeple Pen
    Wow, that's truly fucked up. What an awful tragedy. I've seen all sorts of horrible stuff on the internet, but I don't think I want to see this particular video... Politicians all over the world will have a field day over this, and without a doubt countless new psycho-nutters and racist scumbags will crawl out of their holes now that this asshole has set an example, and the cycle of violence keeps spinning. What a depressing place this world can be sometimes.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Jafaville New Zealand
    Fucker can slowly rot for all I care. I'm glad we don't have the death penalty here.

    The irony that it's a nutjob white guy that does the killing. And supposedly Australian (Sorry Icemann). Now I have to worry about copycat idiots. Ugh. It's after midnight and I should be in bed.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    No offense taken. And yep he was Australian. Brenton Tarrant. Not sure about the other 3.

    A more up to date article with further details. 49 dead now. Word of warning that it shows a few screenshots taken from the video. Nothing too graphic.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Jafaville New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    No offense taken. And yep he was Australian. Brenton Tarrant. Not sure about the other 3.

    A more up to date article with further details. 49 dead now. Word of warning that it shows a few screenshots taken from the video. Nothing too graphic.
    Fuck I really didn't want to know his name. And I briefly saw bits of what looked like an edited version of the video from a news site. It's... surreal for a lack of a better word.

  10. #10
    SShock2.com
    Member

    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: The land of ever sideways rain
    This is not about faith. This is about fear, hate and being a self-righteous asshole with more guns than brains.

    Hating immigrants? He was an Australian in New Zealand. Lethal irony. That was not a joke. Perverted idea of what an immigrant is.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    I delayed posting about this because I hoped that there might be some hidden perspective which would allow it to make some sense. Nothing so far, just immense sadness.

    My condolences to the families and friends of the victims.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: New Zealand
    That's the thing, it does make sense. This, or something very much like it, was guaranteed to happen sooner or later. A lot of people - Muslims, women, queer people and others - have been speaking up about the types of fascist groups that precipitated this attack for years, and no one listened. Those hate groups have been allowed to grow online, virtually unchallenged, while the police and the intelligence agencies have been busy fretting about Muslims, Maori, and small-scale left-wing activists. And it goes beyond a bunch of dangerous white men in the dark corners of the internet and on the streets of Christchurch (which has had a white supremacist problem for a long long time). A lot of the media here has been full of racist and otherwise bigoted subtext - or sometimes, just text - for far too long, and any attempt to challenge this has been met with a tide of "PC gone mad" and other apologist cliches. It's hard to say how much of the population that actually represents, but regardless they've been dominant in a lot of online spaces, emboldening the nazis one shitty post at a time. A large swathe of our culture, our media, and our people are complicit in allowing this to happen, because we created exactly the kind of society that encourages this kind of violence. It makes sense, in the worst possible way.

  13. #13
    I am so angry that the extent of the death toll here was facilitated by it apparently being legal for civilians to purchase assault rifles, despite there having been a review of that situation in the past two years, and a recommendation made at that time that such guns should not be legal for the general public to own -- a recommendation which was apparently rejected by whoever the decision makers were, despite the potential for this very outcome being the obvious argument in favour of a ban of a type of weapon which is designed to kill large numbers of people as efficiently as possible, and which has no reasonable use outside of military applications. NZ is not a country with significant culture of gun ownership; guns are not prevalent in society outside of hunting and farming. The vast majority of people want nothing to do with them, and I think most people are absolutely stunned that it was legal for these weapons to be purchased. I hope the people who rejected that ban are made to explain themselves. This lunatic was surely going to kill people regardless, but I feel like the staggering number of dead and injured is partly on the heads of the people on the committee who in effect voted in favour of enabling mass-murder on this scale to take place. I want that decision to be explained and defended.
    Last edited by Shadowcat; 16th Mar 2019 at 21:28.

  14. #14
    SShock2.com
    Member

    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: The land of ever sideways rain
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but did not Australia ban guns a few years ago, after multiple shootings? New Zealand did not? In his statement, he said he went to NZ to train. So he had the intent already. Can we deduce from this that gun control laws actually work?

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: New Zealand
    We don't really have a very good idea how many guns there are here though - we might not have a US-style gun culture, and yeah, they're probably mostly basic shotguns, rifles and the like (IIRC you need specific endorsements as well as the standard licence to have pistols or semi-automatic weapons) but at the least there are likely to be more than a million guns. You'd probably be surprised how many people own one (also, I forget which city you're in, but at least here there are Gun City billboards around the place from time to time). So I feel like we kind of do have a gun culture of sorts, even if it's not as blithely irresponsible as the US one. And clearly whatever the specific requirements are for the more dangerous firearms, they didn't work and the semi-automatics, at the least, have to go. There's no justification for anyone to have weapons like that. From what I'm able to gather, the previous National government rejected a number of the select committee's recommendations, including "Investigate the creation of a category of restricted semi-automatic rifle and shotgun", it looks like we have Paula Bennett in particular to thank for that.

    I do think that despite that, the core of the problem is cultural though - taking away the easy ways of killing large numbers of people is important, but stopping people from getting comfortable enough in their bigotry that they're willing to do that is even better.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Completely agree with mopgoblin, society as a whole has allowed this kind of thinking to become mainstream, especially over the past few years, by allowing these kinds of people to go largely unchallenged.

    We see it where people turn a blind eye to those who proclaim themselves to be racists, bigots, fascists, etc., so long as they are not currently talking about politics, and we see it where people treat others supporting politicians, parties and movements which prescribe to those beliefs as just having a valid political opinion.

    The more these kinds of beliefs are allowed to go unchallenged, the more people will see them as valid or reasonable, and prescribe being to them in turn.

    The kind of people who are spreading this kind of hatred should not be allowed to go unchallenged out of some twisted belief in freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is not supposed to mean freedom from the consequences of speaking. If someone reveals themselves to have such despicable beliefs, then they need to be ostracised, disavowed, and deplatformed, rather than just ignoring the problem and hoping it will go away.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but did not Australia ban guns a few years ago, after multiple shootings? New Zealand did not? In his statement, he said he went to NZ to train. So he had the intent already. Can we deduce from this that gun control laws actually work?
    There are also some claims he was radicalised here, apparently he seemed to have connections to some of the (various) nazi groups in Christchurch so that's not implausible. But yes, gun control laws do work, I understand Australia has seen a substantial drop in gun violence since they changed their laws (I expect they won't have banned guns entirely but rather limited them to sensible kinds and appropriate contexts, though I don't know the details). That said, our laws are pretty sensible in terms of a lot of respects (like storage requirements; from what I recall you have to lock up the gun and the ammo separately while not in use, as well as removing the bolt or similar component) and you can't carry a firearm for self-defence. The availability of semi-automatic weapons is an outlier - if the last government had had the sense (or, more to the point, the courage) to ban them when they had the chance then this guy probably could have only killed five people or so, not fifty, and he might not have tried at all.

  18. #18
    SShock2.com
    Member

    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: The land of ever sideways rain
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    by allowing these kinds of people to go largely unchallenged
    That is exactly what some anti-terrorist expert said on BBC yesterday, and I agree with him. He said you can't stop the amount of racist bullshit available online, all the crazy conspiracy theories and utter nonsense. If you ban it, it'll spread underground. The best way to deal with it is to disprove it and argue against it. Many of the items listed in the shooters manifesto are old racist tropes and paranoid delusions, easily disproven, but we need to get the facts out there to be seen.

    It's like the moonlanding conspiracy theory, the nutters went on for years about how it was faked, but every single argument was logically and calmly disproven, ending with the biggest proof of all: we left stuff there that you can see from here with a telescope. We can probably do the same with this other nonsense, if someone more clever than me has the good rational arguments.

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    I'd say that the worst of them are much too far gone to be reasoned with, but if at least they were flooded with reasoned arguments to disprove and ridicule their crazy beliefs - just like with moon-landing conspirators or flat-earthers - then others would be less likely to believe them and follow them down that path.

  20. #20
    SShock2.com
    Member

    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: The land of ever sideways rain
    Yes. Exactly that.

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    And your correct, in Australia after the Port Arthur massacre in the 90s there was a massive banning on many types of guns. Since then we've not had 1 similar incident.

    Of course theres still gun crime (mostly due to the black market) but even that is uncommon.

    In other news Kotaku's reported that Steam had to step in and delete over 100 profiles which had given tribute to the main shooter. Only stupid people are breeding I tell ya.

  22. #22
    SShock2.com
    Member

    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: The land of ever sideways rain
    Are you saying clever people should have more intercourse? I've been saying that for decades!

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Well I was meaning that the amounts of stupid people seems to be increasing but sure that'd be valid .

  24. #24
    SShock2.com
    Member

    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: The land of ever sideways rain
    Yes, I know, I apologise for such a cheap joke in a very serious thread. But it was such an obvious joke I just could not resist.

    Now back to our regular story.

  25. #25
    SShock2.com
    Member

    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: The land of ever sideways rain
    I've been thinking a lot about this over the last few days. There is a great bit mosque next to the gym I go to. On one hand, I want to go in and show my support, but on the other, I do not have the faith, and I don't know if I'd be welcome, or if so, what I'd even say. I wouldn't know how to behave appropriately, or who to talk to. It somehow feels patronising assuming that all muslims will feel they are under attack just because of some nutjob on the other side of the world, but then again, maybe they always do because of the local racism. I don't know. In my soul, I feel it's important to somehow show my support, I just don't know how to do it.

    Maybe I can just ask to speak to the imam, and say that not all white, blonde, blue-eyed, shaved head, big fat guys wearing black are racists and hate them. I don't know how to do it, but I want to do -something-.

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