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Thread: Mosque Shootings in New Zealand

  1. #26
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    Are you saying clever people should have more intercourse? I've been saying that for decades!
    Idiocracy had a whole segment on just this point: screenshot
    (The top half is the high IQ couple. The bottom half is the low IQ couple.)

    Edit: I changed the image to a link because it doesn't fit the tone of the thread maybe.

    As for my general thoughts, this was of course an abhorrent tragedy. I think what's special about our era isn't that there's more of these people than before. I actually think it's better now than in the past. But now they have their own space online to brew in this toxic bile until things like this happen. And that's happening all over the place, literally every country. I feel like I've seen it where I'm from too, and in my work we're dealing with the entire Southeast Asia region taking a hard authoritarian turn since 2014 or so.
    Last edited by demagogue; 17th Mar 2019 at 05:14.

  2. #27
    Gray, I think that if people elsewhere in the world are moved to send messages of good will, love, and respect to their own local communities, then the global balance is shifted a little for the good. I wouldn't imagine that it would be seen as patronising to say that an act of unimaginable hate perpetrated elsewhere has inspired you to offer a message of support within your own community. You could simply leave a written message if that was the easiest way to express what you wanted to say -- so many written messages of support have been left at mosques throughout NZ; most of which will have been left by people who are not muslim and wouldn't know how to behave appropriately in a mosque but wanted to reach out somehow. I really believe that any such message would be received in the spirit it was intended, no matter the distance from the event which inspired it.

  3. #28
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Also, I think they might be just a little bit on edge about white people walking into mosques right about now. A written letter might be best, given the circumstances.

  4. #29
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    I've been thinking a lot about this over the last few days. There is a great bit mosque next to the gym I go to. On one hand, I want to go in and show my support, but on the other, I do not have the faith, and I don't know if I'd be welcome, or if so, what I'd even say. I wouldn't know how to behave appropriately, or who to talk to. It somehow feels patronising assuming that all muslims will feel they are under attack just because of some nutjob on the other side of the world, but then again, maybe they always do because of the local racism. I don't know. In my soul, I feel it's important to somehow show my support, I just don't know how to do it.

    Maybe I can just ask to speak to the imam, and say that not all white, blonde, blue-eyed, shaved head, big fat guys wearing black are racists and hate them. I don't know how to do it, but I want to do -something-.
    I'm married to a Somali Muslim woman (I'm catholic), and shes been very meh about it oddly. I plan on having a chat with her parents next I see them about it as some of those killed in NZ were Somali.

    Going back to my earlier point about stupid people - Over here in Aus, yesterday a right wing politician blamed it on the Muslim immigrants themselves, and was immediately ridiculed. At a media event the politician in question was egged by a member of a public (rightly so) and reacted quite violently towards egger. Several of his right wing supporters tackled the person to the ground in a choke hold. Such lovely politicians we have. He should be sacked for comments like that. Video of the incident is in the above link.

    If there is any country in the world, that I would call most like my country it's New Zealand. Very similar values and mixture of cultures. Only difference being on gun control. Until this, I was unaware that they had far lesser levels of gun control over there.

  5. #30
    SShock2.com
    Member

    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: The land of ever sideways rain
    I saw that bit on the BBC news. A boy egged him, and he punched him in the face. It's the perfect way of saying "I'm not a violent racist asshole, trust me."

  6. #31
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    Im not racist, just a violent asshole, trust me. That fits better.
    Trust me, you will see quite a few violent assholes in Australia.

  7. #32
    SShock2.com
    Member

    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: The land of ever sideways rain
    My boy is going there next summer, I'll tell him to keep his head down.

  8. #33
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    No dont get me wrong its quite safe, but its not the land of milk and honey that its sometimes made out to be. There is definitely an undercurrent of racism amongst the entrenched middle class though.

  9. #34
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    A boy egged him, and he punched him in the face. It's the perfect way of saying "I'm not a violent racist asshole, trust me."
    I think the guy is a jerk, because of what he said.

    But I don't think you should be prejudiced when looking at his response. He didn't know it was an egg. How could he? All he knew is something wet had hit him, that he'd been assaulted, and he stuck out. It could have been acid - we've enough of those attacks recently. It could have been the first of many attacks. After the first hit he strikes again and this time it's simultaneous with the egg boy attempting a punch.

    I don't think he did anything particularly wrong. Everyone is going on about oooh look how violent he is. Yeah, tell that to all the acid victims, tell that to all the people that got sucker punched on the second hit. If he gets charged over this then it really is a libtard conspiracy and I'm a liberal.

  10. #35
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2011
    Location: Wild and Wooly West of Ireland

  11. #36
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Pacific Northwest
    A thread about white supremacists shooting up some mosques and someone posts a video talking up the dangers of radical Islam. Very topical and considerate.

  12. #37
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Thats just wrong. Delete that post Purg. Highly insensitive. It was radical Christianty that was behind this one. So if there is a finger to be pointed then that is where it would go.

  13. #38
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    I dont think that was the point of posting that clip.

  14. #39
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    Thats just wrong. Delete that post Purg. Highly insensitive. It was radical Christianty that was behind this one. So if there is a finger to be pointed then that is where it would go.
    It wasn't radical Christianity acting as the motive behind the NZ shooting. It's hard to say exactly what the guy believed in, since his manifesto was primarily rage bait bullshit specifically tailored to divide and spur on more violence.

    If I had to take a stab at a guess, I'd say he seems more aligned with the #whitegenocide movement.

  15. #40
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    There was nothing untrue about what Purgator posted. It's exactly how I feel about religion. Hitchens cuts through the bullshit in Christianity as well as the Muslim religion. I can't disagree about freedom of speech even when I recognize it is trying to control or spread hatred or ignorance. I hate those things. I hate suppression of speech worse. Unfortunately we are going through a period where we are electing ethnocentric assholes who encourage violence. The perpetrator mentioned Trump and his admiration for him. We all know Trump's support of white nationalism. We hear the dog whistles and the response of the supremacists on the hard right. We see the whataboutism and know they just favor the Christian religion at the expense of the very principles espoused by Jesus. But just now we stand with the Muslims. Not because we agree with their view, which is often the most authoritarian and unforgiving crap, but because we are decent and mourn with them that there are those in our midst who carry out violence in disagreement of free speech. We hope with our deepest heart that the crazy does not win. Even the violent among us, of which I have often been one, understand it is wrong to kill in the name of anything except total subjugation.

    Got to laugh about that asshole getting egged though. Obvious him and his people are violent and intolerant assholes and they showed it to the world. I'm glad the egger didn't get choked to death. That man is a hero. He did what we all want to do. No. We all WANT to punch them. But he found a more effective way to expose them for what they are.

  16. #41
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Pacific Northwest
    The video was bad because it would be like if on September 11, 2001 I posted a video about how free speech is cool but oh American imperialism is bad and rampant capitalism is bad. Salient points though they may be, it's not the time or the place. It's particularly insidious in this case because it perpetuates the very real talking points that, while it sucks these people were killed, we shouldn't forget the real enemy, which is basically these people anyway and maybe it was for the best lol.

    But just now we stand with the Muslims. Not because we agree with their view, which is often the most authoritarian and unforgiving crap, but because we are decent and mourn with them that there are those in our midst who carry out violence in disagreement of free speech.
    It hasn't even been a week and we're already amplifying the same positive feedback loops that confirm the prejudices of mass killers. Who says the victims had authoritarian or unforgiving views? How many more posts until we get to "well they kinda deserved it?"


  17. #42
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    You know, "its not the time or place" is exactly what US politicians have said regarding gun laws whenever a mass shooting takes place and the general populace cry for gun reform.

  18. #43
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Pacific Northwest
    Just because NZ's pols realize trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of Far Cry 3 and ours don't doesn't make them inherently better than us.

  19. #44
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    You may not recall the things said about the US on 911. I do. They were that bad and worse. Much worse in fact. If you don't believe me then go pull up the statements said on this very forum.

    I hate the assholes who kill for or against religion. I won't change my views, which are correct BTW, for any incident. Maybe you will amplify your own feedback loop but I'm who I will always be. Nothing I said encourages killing. I'm against it. So much so that when I joined the service I joined as a medic. I won't lie and say the Muslim religion is tolerant though. No religion is. They all seek to control and most at some point are willing to kill to do it. Nobody deserves to die, even those who would kill for religion, whether it be Christian or Muslim, over a stupid idea in the first place.

  20. #45
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Pacific Northwest
    The idea is to not paint with such broad strokes, but obviously that's not getting anywhere.

  21. #46
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    Individuals are individuals but that idea is against the fundamental aspects of religion. We all must believe the same thing according to religion.

  22. #47
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Earlier I said this was one where it was radical Christianity at work was as they (the shooter) quoted the bible.

    When a Muslim quotes the quran on committing terroism we call them a radical Muslim. So I'm just calling a spade a spade. If its one way for one then its the same for the other.

  23. #48
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2005
    Location: Not Kansas
    @Icemann:

  24. #49
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    I'm with Slasher. Almost every time some atrocity happens, immediately there are people trying to use the opportunity to advance their agenda or point a finger at their chosen bugaboo.

    A better thing to do is be patient until we find out who Brenton Tarrant really is, whether he was mentally ill, where he was radicalized, whether he is part of a network or movement, etc. Then we can have a more realistic discussion of motives and prevention.

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