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Thread: what is your single most irritating pet peeve in a fan mission

  1. #51
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Ireland/Poland
    Talking personages who inform important things.

    This game processes sound in a rather nontrivial way, so it is very difficult to hear and understand every word even in the native language. Trying to parse the dialog in poorly known language from afar is very irritating.
    You mean like a conversation with information crucial for completion the mission? I think an interesting way of solving this problem, without resorting to scrolls and letter only, would be after every important conversation, Garrett would receive a 'sound item' in inventory, called something like 'overheard conversation' (snappier suggestions welcomed) with key sentences playing back upon 'using' the item - like looking back in memory, of what we've heard. This way, no info would escape from the player.

  2. #52
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2017
    Location: France
    Quote Originally Posted by View Post
    Extreme loot goals forcing the player to spend hours looking in every nook and cranny.

    Minimal differences between loot goals on difficulty levels: something like 94% on Normal, 95% on Hard, 96% on Expert.

    Readables with meta information like "Garrett feels disgusted after reading this", breaking the immersion by telling the player how they should feel.

    Guard voices replaced with another language so you can't tell if what they are saying is "Who's there?!" or just some idle talk.

    Sound clipping between ambient sounds, or ambient sounds instantly stopping when the player enters another area.

    Lights with infinite radiuses causing weird shadows and affecting the framerate negatively.

    Spelling errors in mission info files, ingame objectives or books.
    Yeesh, sounds like you've played some bad missions! Now imagine if one mission did all of this at once, oh my!

  3. #53
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Ukraine
    Quote Originally Posted by PinkDot View Post
    'sound item' in inventory, called something like 'overheard conversation' (snappier suggestions welcomed) with key sentences playing back upon 'using' the item
    Why not just use subtitles? Text is your friend. Text is the best invention of humanity ever. Why humiliate the player by forcing him to listen to ununderstandable speech over and over? Why not just add to the inventory a scroll with corresponding text?

  4. #54
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2005
    Location: Germany
    Candles or torches that burn in abandoned places

  5. #55
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Ireland/Poland
    Why not just add to the inventory a scroll with corresponding text?
    That would do as well, I suppose.

    A few from me:
    - Dead, rotten bodies lying all over the place, in sight of living people, who just could not care less for yet another corpse they need to step over on their daily walk. (I'm talking about corpses placed by mission author - not player)
    - Dead bodies storytelling. Corpse/skeleton as an exploration reward - with valuables lying around and a diary filled in up to the last moments before their death. Not a terrible idea as such - just overused.
    - Wooden textures with incorrect grain direction.
    - AI in places inaccessible for them (like in a tower accessible via ladder, which they can't use)
    - neutral AIs, who lets you steal their belongings - looking at you, when you're robbing their house/shop
    - missions, which take lifetime to complete, cause they have entire game world packed into them - all factions, all environments, all monsters etc...

  6. #56
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: thiefgold.com
    Quote Originally Posted by ganac View Post
    Everybody?! I think it's time for a Total Crap 2 Contest.
    Please no.

  7. #57
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    The real purpose of this thread is collecting ideas for Total Crap Contest 2.

  8. #58
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2014
    Overly detailed custom models for things that don't need models. Often they are completely pointless. Like those bookshelf models stacked with individually-rendered books you see in some missions. They detract from the look of the game. It's almost like an uncanny valley effect. Sometimes abstraction is your friend. Just putting a rectangular prism with a bookshelf texture slapped on one side usually looks better.

    Similarly, sometimes ultra-high-res textures can look jarring in Thief's old engine. I'm all for improving and expanding on the look of the original game but there's a balance to be struck. imo

    Being able to climb out of the playable area is always a bummer. I'm much more tolerant of it than I used to be, I mean, there are OMs and classic FMs where it can happen, and testers can't catch everything.

  9. #59
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    Cookie cutter solutions to problems without clear guidance on what the player is supposed to do.

    If you're going to restrict the player by only allowing one solution (already not a great start), at least make it possible for the player to figure out exactly what to do.

    For example, an objective like:
    "Make sure (insert character here) gets what's coming." Kill him? Knock him out? Lock him in a room with an angry burrick? Oh.... you meant find the note where he confesses to some misdeed, and place it on the desk (not the bed or nightstand, mind you) in some other character's room.

    Plenty of other examples of this kind of taffery, but I don't want to call out specific FMs.
    Last edited by trefoilknot; 21st May 2020 at 22:36.

  10. #60
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2019
    Location: Restaurant at end of universe
    - Locks need a purpose: Picking a lock in a darkroom (etc..) has no suspense with no patrolling guard/creature. Locks that need to be picked should be on a patrolling guard's route. All others should be left unlocked.

    - I don't care for obscure key hunt mission. The story is more important.

    - Dew Drop needs a make-over. Chucky clone with a knife would suffice.

  11. #61
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Rugs that are just thrown on the floor at weird angles. Like really, who does that?

  12. #62
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: thiefgold.com
    Large, purposeless rooms, with nothing of use.
    Ironically, these are more realistic, as such occurs in real life, but they're quite boring and frustrating.

  13. #63
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2007
    Location: USA
    If the whole mission is a key hunt. It makes sense if an important door or 2 require a key and there's a readable explaining why. For example, if there was a door installed with a new "unpickable" lock. BUT, it doesn't make sense to need a key to gain access to each room. Especially with a set of lock picks in your inventory. You are playing as a master thief after all. I guess another exception would be if the story notes that you are not playing as Garrett, but as someone that would not be as handy with lock picks. A novice thief I guess, but even then you should carefully choose just how many doors can be picked vs. needing a key. Lockpicking should be the more common approach.

    In that same vein as already mentioned, the timing for how long a lock takes to get picked needs to be considered. Well lit, frequently patrolled areas should take longer while less populated or darker locations should be short.

  14. #64
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2019
    I would not really call it a pet peeve, it's just something that always grabs my attention when it appears in games, images or cartoons:

    If a crescent moon is placed in an astronomically impossible place. I am not talking that it is placed in some constellation it can never appear in. I am talking about nightskies, where a thin crescent moon is high up in the sky or a waning crescent that is about to set. Both events would require the sun to be in close apparent proximity, meaning that a moon with crescent appearance is impossible to appear at those places during night time.

  15. #65
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Naming characters after former Looking Glass personnel or fan missions authors. Nothing takes me out of a mission like reading about how King Pearsall II the Bearded was slain by Lord Stellmach, the legend of the Sperrylians that built a great temple, or the exploits of the supposedly famous Brother Apache. It is not clever.

  16. #66
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2007
    Location: Krull Island, in the pub
    The Big Quiet is what I especially do not like.

    The whole Thief universe and its unique atmosphere (which I can't get tired of) is heavily built upon/ heavily relies on ambient sound design and effects. I hate it when you are in a fan mission, and there are places where you LITERALLY cannot hear any music or effect - not even a cricket, or some light wind. It's annoying. At least there should be a slight sound of draft/pipelines/nearby device etc. everywhere.

  17. #67
    New Member
    Registered: Oct 2019
    Quote Originally Posted by PinkDot View Post
    That would do as well, I suppose.

    A few from me:
    - Dead, rotten bodies lying all over the place, in sight of living people, who just could not care less for yet another corpse they need to step over on their daily walk. (I'm talking about corpses placed by mission author - not player)
    - Dead bodies storytelling. Corpse/skeleton as an exploration reward - with valuables lying around and a diary filled in up to the last moments before their death. Not a terrible idea as such - just overused.
    - Wooden textures with incorrect grain direction.
    - AI in places inaccessible for them (like in a tower accessible via ladder, which they can't use)
    - neutral AIs, who lets you steal their belongings - looking at you, when you're robbing their house/shop
    - missions, which take lifetime to complete, cause they have entire game world packed into them - all factions, all environments, all monsters etc...
    This has me laughing!

    I guess a minor pet peeve of mine is in mansion FMs when there is light but no light switches to be found anywhere. I understand this is probably to make the level harder, but I just wonder how do the people sleep or deal with lights constantly being on throughout the day? (Joking of coarse ). Another minor pet peeve is when there are stores or even apartments in levels but no bathroom in sight. Sometimes there will be a little house or apartment with no kitchen and no bathroom. I like it when people pay attention to detail and add these sorts of elements to levels. Of coarse it's only a game, but when these details are added it makes me feel like I'm more in the game.

  18. #68
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2017
    Location: France
    Quote Originally Posted by ticky View Post
    The Big Quiet is what I especially do not like.

    The whole Thief universe and its unique atmosphere (which I can't get tired of) is heavily built upon/ heavily relies on ambient sound design and effects. I hate it when you are in a fan mission, and there are places where you LITERALLY cannot hear any music or effect - not even a cricket, or some light wind. It's annoying. At least there should be a slight sound of draft/pipelines/nearby device etc. everywhere.
    This times a thousand. You hit the nail right on the head ticky!

  19. #69
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Ukraine
    Quote Originally Posted by LadyVictoria View Post
    no kitchen and no bathroom.
    Bathroom? Haven't you ever saw a house or apartment without a toilet/bathroom? They built those until the early XX century. Those facilities were outside. And the City isn't the comfiest place ever

  20. #70
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Sheffield, UK
    Re kitchens, inside loos & bathrooms @LadyVictoria & @A.Stahl

    I'm 62, until I was 7ish I lived in a house without a bathroom or inside toilet, not sure of the period but I'd say it was a Victorian terraced slum built around 1900.

    We had a tin bath we'd put in front of the fire & laboriously fill with hot water, then we'd take turns before the water went cold, I still have privacy issues because of that, dad always went first & used to shave while he was in it, so we'd itch when we got out, I hated bath night.

    The kitchen was a converted from a scullery or wash house it had a beaten earth floor with flagstones laid on top, a sink & a big copper tub with a lid for washing clothes in I don't remember it ever being used but you were supposed to light a fire under it to heat the water. We had a big black lead range which was used for cooking until the electricity was installed then we had an electric cooker in the scullery, my sister was in charge of making sure there was a pot of hot water on the cooker for when dad came home so he could have a wash

    Toilet was an overhead flush type in an outhouse, and was bloody freezing in winter, often froze solid and the pipes burst quite regularly so in winter we'd keep a pan of water on the range so we could flush the loo

    We had electric light but it had been retrofitted so you could see the wiring nailed to the ceiling & they missed the stairs, which were totally enclosed & had no handrails, they were pitch black at night, yes I fell down them a few times.

    I was the last of 5 children, and when it was really cold, us kids would be put in the parents bed, girls included & all the overcoats thrown on top of us, we used to fight for a sleeve so you could put your arm in it, mum & dad slept in chairs in front of the fire.

    So these things didn't happen that long ago I'm talking about the mid 60's here, I know, it sounds a bit like the 4 Yorkshiremen sketch, trust me I knew people who were worse off than us.

    Of course Thief is a different universe but even so I wouldn't expect any but the very rich to have luxuries like electricity, indoor loos or cooking facilities that aren't also the main heat source for the house.

  21. #71
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2011
    Location: Wild and Wooly West of Ireland
    Indeed, outside conveniences would have been common in Medieval times. The very wealthy, who could afford to reside in lavish castles, would have access to a Garderobe. This was a tiny room overhanging the moat, where one could "busteth a dookie" in relative comfort. Commoners would have to make do with privies/latrines and cesspits.
    Fun Fact 1: In Tudor England, "Gong Farmer" was the term used for those whose chosen career it was to empty these foul pits, and dispose of the malodorous contents far from the towns and cities.
    Fun Fact 2: "Your Dad's a Gong Farmer", was a common schoolboy insult in Tudor England.
    Then there were the Chamber pots. These were most useful if you had to answer the call of nature on a cold, dark Winter's night. The contents of this apparatus would then be swiftly disposed of upon the morn', usually through the chamber window and onto the street below.
    Fun Fact 3: In Medieval Scotland the emptying of these chamber pots would be accompanied by the phrase "Prenez garde a l'eau" (beware of the water), which became "Gardyloo" over time, and finally "Loo", which we all know is where the Queen spends her pennies. As to why Medieval Scots would feel the need to practice their French whilst tipping their p*ss pots out the window is anyone's guess.
    "Keep edgy fur mah jobby" would have made much more sense!

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