Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

[SirLord Best]

After giving the game a break, after about 50 attempts i finally managed to best Lady Butterfly

This fight was driving me nuts so I spammed Night Jar at her and she went down easy!

Next time I'll add a video.

[Severian_Silk]

I just finished Sekiro. The last boss took me around 4 hours across 3 days and... honestly, it's not really that difficult after all. It's just that it takes a bit to learn the game, and learn not to play it like a Souls game.

Anyway, it's satisfying as all heck and I immediately started new game+. Tenchu 1 was the first game I ever owned myself so playing Sekiro felt very nostalgic, especially with all the nods and homages to that series (some music tracks were even composed by the Tenchu guy). Hope there's a DLC coming.

[salass00]

I did some easier mini boss fights and leveled up a bit before trying the Genichiro boss fight again. It took quite a few attempts but I was finally able to beat the crap out of his second phase. The Ichimonji: Double move is quite effective against his first phase BTW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gutJiVoEU6M

[salass00]

At the guardian ape now. I managed to decapitate him on my third attempt. I didn't expect him to get back up although I had some suspicions as it seemed a bit too easy. Not entirely sure what to do about his terror AoE except keep taking pacifying agents every time the effect of the previous one runs out. Taking a break from the game for now...

[Severian_Silk]

salass00, regarding the Ape's terror attack I just run like hell as far away as possible.

[salass00]

Thanks. As long as I play relatively cautiously and don't get too greedy with attacking I'm able to get away in time pretty easily.

Still some ways away from defeating this guy but at least I've gotten much better at getting through his first phase...

[salass00]

Ok, I finally beat the guardian ape. The second phase lasted quite long because I was really cautious in choosing my openings, but once his health was down to zero (or close to) it didn't take much at all to break his posture and finish him off. I also did the first phase pretty decently so I had 4/7 gourd uses left for the last phase.

[salass00]

I just wanted to write that I defeated the Owl yesterday and the corrupted monk (true form) today (videos are on my youtube channel).

I guess it goes to show how much better I've gotten at the game (especially at deflecting) that compared to some of the early game bosses (Gyoubu and butterfly lady) these two caused me far less trouble and deaths. Deflecting really makes the game a lot easier.

[SirLord Best]

I admit I gave up on this, it just wasn't the Soul's experience I was looking for, I did like the stealth segment mechanics but just found it too brutal in the end ...

Did you manage to beat this in the end @salass00? I did like your video's!

[Gryzemuis]

I gave up on Sekiro even before playing the game. After reading about it, seeing how some people reacted, and watching some youtube, it was clear that Sekiro is absolutely not a game for me. I enjoyed the Dark Souls games because of the atmosphere. The mood, the graphics, the artstyle. Being alone, amongst all these hollows and monsters. I liked travelling through the cities, the woods, the dungeons. Boss fights are ok with me, but far from my favorite element in the game. I see them more of a hinderance to my journey through the world. And I certainly don't enjoy the pure fighting, the rolling, the fast reactions that are needed, the timing, the aim, etc. That's probably because I'm old and have no "skillz". I can't parry a boss if my life depended on it. My strength in fighting is in the planning in advance. The RPG-element. Get a good weapon for a fight, make sure you got the right infusion, max-out your weapon, use the correct resin, use some resistance-gear, use the proper shield, etc.

And Sekiro seems to be completely the opposite of that. Fuck the world, fuck rpg-elements, fuck the journey. It's just boss fight after boss fight. With a few mini-bosses thrown between them. Not a game for me.

The next game will be made with help of GRRM (of Game Of Thrones fame). I'm so done with GRRM. So I'm not looking forward to that one either. Maybe 10 years from now we'll get another Dark Souls game. I am patient.

[Judith]

Fuck the world, fuck rpg-elements, fuck the journey.

Only the middle part, IMO. The game just wants to tell a particular story in particular setting, with complementing particular mechanics. And it does seem to achieve these goals well. Noone said that all From games have to be cryptic stories in mysterious semi-open worlds with focus on player choice and heavy RPG elements / character build experimentation.

Being just a "Soulsborne reskin games" company is not fun, at least from a developer perspective.

[Sulphur]

I picked Sekiro up some weeks ago because every single thing about it seemed interesting except the extreme difficulty. It's not every day you get a game that looks like a Tenchu-inspired sword ballet masterclass.

Good news: it's a sword ballet masterclass
Bad news: it's a fucking sword ballet masterclass

The Tenchu DNA isn't particularly present; though there's lots of stealth stabbing gormless idjits, this is merely prelude to one-on-one fuckstick twatting. And those gormless idjits, if they see you before you get to caress their necks with a blade? Some of them are capable of punting you across a room if you let them. Yup, this is From Software town.

So, funny thing. I love the fuck out of it. There's nothing wrong with its combat, it's fast, furious, and precise, with emphasis on deflecting, countering, and constant offense. It's the complete antithesis of Dark Souls with its stamina gauges and cowering behind shields. The only thing the combat has in common with Souls is, if you don't pay attention, you die. And you will die often even when you do. (And the costs to dying, at least when you're learning the ropes, are steep: you lose half your money, half your earned XP, and you start inflicting a disease on NPCs that requires a limited use item to cure. But the game also gives you ways of dealing with this as you explore and learn more.) There's not much help in grinding: there's only your sword, your prosthetic abilities, your skills, and your mastery of the game's mechanics. You either learn how to play the game, or you rage quit. Oh, and it's single-player only, which means no summoning.

And it is absolutely brilliant.

Dark Souls typically has players cooing over its obfuscation of essential mechanics and information - and while I can't discount the effectiveness of subtlety in piecing together a story, it's a terrible idea to force players to discover mechanics in the same way, especially in a game that's not shy about constantly killing you through enemies, the environment, and combinations thereof.

Sekiro does away with this almost from the off - everything you need to know is there, either in the game, the item descriptions, the combat trainer, or the loading screen hints, and it's an immediate breath of fresh air. This leaves you to focus on getting good at deflection and counter timings, and while it can be bastard hard if you're calibrated to Dark Souls' geriatric pace, none of the fights inspire immediate despair: there's always a window in each fight where you see a possible avenue of attack to work on, and while you will almost immediately fuck it up, it is immensely satisfying to figure out the strategy and then stab your katana through a boss's neck.

The trade-off is that there isn't much mystery in the world. It's a straightforward story with fantastical elements and some lovely design that sends you grappling across feudal-era Japan's rooftops and cliffs for much of the duration. But I'll gladly accept that trade for gameplay that's immediate, satisfying, and a pleasure to master through every minute of the experience. Best combat gameplay since Nioh? Just about. Nioh's more varied and technical, but both are glorious in their own way.

I haven't reached the end, and I know it's going to be quite the gauntlet in the last act, but I'm looking forward to the experience.

[Starker]

Dark Souls typically has players cooing over its obfuscation of essential mechanics and information

Obfuscation of lore type of information and what to do and where to go, yes. Mechanics, not so much. I'd say that being overly reliant on a wiki for basic gameplay information is one of the more criticised aspects of the first game.

I had to put Sekiro aside, unfortunately. I got to a fight with a beast I just can't beat and there's no other path forward, it seems. It has these flames on it that bring the FPS crawling on its knees. I've tried lots of things -- turn off all bells and whistles, lower the resolution, fiddle with all kinds of settings, but nothing seems to help. Oh well, maybe I'll give it another go when I next upgrade.

[Sulphur]

Obfuscation of lore type of information and what to do and where to go, yes. Mechanics, not so much. I'd say that being overly reliant on a wiki for basic gameplay information is one of the more criticised aspects of the first game.

I know I've seen people who've ensconced that bit between the 'it's part of the experience' bracket, but that's always come off as either a bit Stockholm syndrome or masochism for the sake of it to me. I'm not the type of person to obsessively play a single game until I've memorised every crack and cranny - I'd rather switch games around for variety after an hour or two - so it gets old fast when just remembering the mechanics because the game doesn't want them readily accessible becomes a challenge.

RE: the beast, if it's the one I think you're talking about, the quickest way to deal is to not listen to the instinct that says hang back for it to come to you. Chase the thing around and whack it on the ass when it tries to swerve around. There's also a prosthetic tool that you should have by now that can help.. Performance-wise, usually dropping the resolution helps with scenes with lots of alpha transparencies, but if that's not helping then an upgrade's probably in order, yeah.

[Starker]

Yeah, it's the same beast. And getting close is when the stuttering is the worst, unfortunately. I must have tried it dozens of times and I'm pretty confident I could beat it otherwise. And I think I've explored everywhere else, including beating a very tough old lady, but there seems to be no other way forward that I can find.

[Sulphur]

There isn't, unfortunately. If you've completed most of Hirata Estates (and since you've finished Lady Butterfly off, you probably have), the only way forward is past that gate where the beast is at.

edit: a quick google tells me there do seem to be some... unofficial ways to get past that section. Not sure if that's worth your while though.

[Starker]

Well, I also tried skipping the boss by getting out of bounds. I saw a video of someone getting up on the walls with a slightly tricky jump, but I hit an invisible wall every time I tried. I think about the only thing I didn't try was asking someone to beat the boss and give me their save game, but I was thoroughly done with the game at that point. Also, it felt like cheating at that point and what if I hit another snag like this.

Also, it's not like there's a shortage of soulslikes. I'm playing one right now that's basically anime Dark Souls and there's still a few more to try I haven't played yet.

[henke]

I've played quite a bit of Sekiro over the last couple weeks. I think I've explored a lot of the world but right now my progress is hampered by 5 different bosses who all wipe the floor with me.

The bosses in Gun Fortress, at the top of Ashina castle, and in the Abandoned Dungeon all kick my ass so hard I don't even think I'm supposed to be fighting them yet.

The Armored Knight - can't put a dent in this guy. Guess I need some special weapon?

Lady Butterfly - I think I'm supposed to be focusing on her right now. Actually managed to get her down to 50% health in her second stage, but I'm fast running out of snap seeds and pellets. My prosthetics mostly seem useless against her, tho I did have some success with Oil+Flame Barrell.

Any hints?

I'm enjoying the game a lot btw (tho I might pause it when TLOU2 comes out this weekend).

edit: went back and fought the guy at the top of Ashima tower. The Sabimaru seems to work well against him, but now I’ve run out of Spirit Emblems! Uhhhhh since when are fucking spirit emblems a limited item? You know what, fuck this game I dont wanna play anymore. For tonight.

[Starker]

re: the butterfly lady, I just made good use of the pillars to heal and help keep distance. Just run away and don't try to fight all the enemies at once. As for prosthetics, I used shurikens to disrupt her in mid-air. Also, in the first phase, when she's about to kick you, that's a really good opportunity to dodge and get a hit in.

You can buy spirit emblems at bonfires.

[thrawn_121]

The armoured knight is a bit of a trick boss, you can never hurt him directly as far as I know. You have to knock him off the bridge by wearing down his posture bar, then doing the killing blow while his back is to the edge, IIRC.
And yeah, I spent all my money on spirit emblems whenever I could at the start, otherwise I just lost all my money anyway.

[Sulphur]

Lady Butterfly - I think I'm supposed to be focusing on her right now. Actually managed to get her down to 50% health in her second stage, but I'm fast running out of snap seeds and pellets. My prosthetics mostly seem useless against her, tho I did have some success with Oil+Flame Barrell.

Your shurikens are great at bringing her down when she's in the air. She also telegraphs her kicks so you can dodge out and smack her a bit. Use the pillars as well, like Starker mentioned, to block her attacks. If you get the timing down, jump on her head when she does a sweep - great posture damage that way.

I ran out of snap seeds figuring out Lady Butterfly, then decided to just do it without them. Don't bother about the ghosts, just keep them at a distance; when they start the firefly dance, get sprinting. They do track your movement, so you want to run around the area and be careful when you're turning corners because you'll slow down and don't want them close enough to hit you at that point. They'll eventually fuck off.

re: The Abandoned Dungeon, if you're talking about the glowing orb magic asshole, yeah, I skipped around him and kept going. You're going to need some stocks of Divine Confetti to deal with him.

re: 'the guy' at the top of Ashina Tower, is this the fella in the dojo, Jinsuke Saze?

[Renzatic]

Do shadows really die twice? Asking for a friend.

[henke]

They do indeed.

Thanks for the tips y'all!

re: 'the guy' at the top of Ashina Tower, is this the fella in the dojo, Jinsuke Saze?

Yeah that's the fella.

[Sulphur]

And only twice. No more.

Re: Saze, he's an asshole. You can skip him, but I suspect you won't want to (killing enemies just feels tastier, and you get a prayer bead, so I wouldn't blame you), so just watch out for the flash when he's got his hand on the sword hilt and coming towards you - that's your signal to dodge forward, but away from the direction of the slash. The rest of his attacks are the usual, jump on his head for the sweep perilous attack.

[henke]

Yeah I read elsewhere about watching for the flash, managed to beat him in tonight's session. Also took out the Armored Knight. Lady Butterfly remains undefeated tho.

The armoured knight is a bit of a trick boss, you can never hurt him directly as far as I know. You have to knock him off the bridge by wearing down his posture bar, then doing the killing blow while his back is to the edge, IIRC.

Thanks for the tip, I never would've figured that out, especially since every other time I've tried pushing enemies off ledges it's been unsuccessful.