Reply With QuoteThanks for the clarification on the Lost City diamond.
Does anyone else in T2Fix get a blank message for the burying Truart bonus objective in Blackmail? The objective tickbox will appear, but there is no message next to it.
Thanks for the message. It appears that addressing this would require redrawing the room brushes around Angelwatch, as the room type used to denote the forbidden street areas elsewhere in the mission is absent around much of the building itself. Though, notably, there are other street-level areas where this is also the case, such as the gap north of the bell tower. While not particularly glaring, I can certainly look into improving the situation.
That particular loot item was mistakenly placed in the ground and consequently cannot be obtained in the unpatched version of the mission. The mission patch raises its position to make it accessible to the player.Originally Posted by Blue Jay
Thanks for the clarification on the Lost City diamond.
Does anyone else in T2Fix get a blank message for the burying Truart bonus objective in Blackmail? The objective tickbox will appear, but there is no message next to it.
That is most likely indicative of the official 1.18 patch resources not being installed, though T2Fix should install them automatically if necessary. The files "dark.gam" and "gen.osm" are checked to determine if the resources are required. Did you modify or overwrite either of these prior to using T2Fix? It may also help to know which Thief 2 distribution you are using, as not all were made equal. Notably, some made available only include a portion of the official patch, though T2Fix should appropriately detect even these cases.
I finally managed to get a screenshot
https://ibb.co/Fh0J48C
I haven't modified any of the files, and the Thief 2 is the one from GOG, with T2Fix 1.27c installed
On a sidenote, really loving the mod. Particularly happy about Blackmail's pool room doors not disappearing.
Last edited by Blue Jay; 17th Jul 2020 at 02:18.
I discovered something odd today. I've finished the game on an earlier version of T2Fix, and I still have my end-mission saves from each mission. Trying to load them today in Trail and Kidnap, I discovered that carryover got broken somehow, and I was missing all my arrows and equipment. All I had were the sword, blackjack, compass, lockpicks, and loot from previous mission. But there's more. If I started the previous missions and used mission skip, I would have my arrows and equipment in the next mission, but I would also have two swords, two blackjacks, four lockpicks, etc.
Edit: Tested this a bit further. Finishing the mission whose equipment should carry over into the next normally and not with mission skip yields similar results: I get duplicates of my sword, blackjack, etc. in the next mission. This also seems to affect FMs. For example, T2X missions Into the Fray and Betrayal exhibit similar problems.
Edit 2: I have nuked my Thief 2 install and made a completely fresh one with T2Fix 1.27b instead of 1.27c. My old saves are still borked in that I don't have any equipment in Trail and Kidnap, but I don't get duplicates of my weapons either, which is already much better.
Last edited by marbleman; 20th Jul 2020 at 08:31.
Maybe saves are incompatible. Why don't you upgrade to 1.27c?
I was on 1.27c. Guess I didn't mention that. If saves are incompatible, that's fine, but the issue I described concerns more than saves.
T2Fix 1.27d is now available in the first post. The most notable features are the new release of T2FMDML and various incremental changes and fixes. All users of 1.27c are recommended to upgrade.
Code:T2Fix 1.27d Changelog: -Updated T2FMDML to Release 3 -Mission fixes -Addressed a missing texture in Kidnap -Reaching the streets in Life of the Party will more consistently fail the mission -Fixed a couple of objects with textures that failed to animate -OpenAL Soft is no longer the default OpenAL device -Updated NVScript to the latest beta -Fixed a problem in T2Fix.osm that could cause issues in some missions -Changes to the Wizard Form -Added an 'Always install 1.18 Resources' button to the advanced options -Additional minor changes
Thanks for the additional information; I am glad you are finding T2Fix beneficial. Given the screenshot, I am fairly sure the issue is indeed the result of old resources. If you are willing to upgrade to 1.27d, selecting the newly-added "Always Install 1.18 Resources" checkbox in the advanced options menu should clear up your problem immediately.
I apologize for my late response.I discovered something odd today. I've finished the game on an earlier version of T2Fix, and I still have my end-mission saves from each mission. Trying to load them today in Trail and Kidnap, I discovered that carryover got broken somehow, and I was missing all my arrows and equipment. All I had were the sword, blackjack, compass, lockpicks, and loot from previous mission. But there's more. If I started the previous missions and used mission skip, I would have my arrows and equipment in the next mission, but I would also have two swords, two blackjacks, four lockpicks, etc.
Edit: Tested this a bit further. Finishing the mission whose equipment should carry over into the next normally and not with mission skip yields similar results: I get duplicates of my sword, blackjack, etc. in the next mission. This also seems to affect FMs. For example, T2X missions Into the Fray and Betrayal exhibit similar problems.
This appears to be an unintended consequence of the way the replacement PlayerTally and LoadUp scripts behaved. They used the "GameName" property as opposed to the combine type, which was used in the original scripts, to store item carryover data to the campaign quest variable database. This was to differentiate between rope arrows and vine arrows, both of which possess the same combine type. Consequently, when loading older saves made after completing a mission from which the inventory should be carried over, your items were missing in the next mission because the appropriate quest variables did not exist in the database, as they are written upon completing the mission. Finishing the previous missions would populate the appropriate quest variables and allow the items to carry over; however, even in this case, items without a combine type would also incorrectly carry over, resulting in the duplicates you describe. This having been said, 1.27d addresses all of this. Your old saves should now behave as you expect under the new release. I appreciate the detailed report.
Hi Jax64, I would like to ask you a question:
Why is the Sound Effects Enhancement Pack much smaller than the original patch by Child Of Karras?
The Sound Effects Enhancement Pack in T2Fix is packaged in Ogg Vorbis files to reduce the size of the setup executable, which would be heavily bloated otherwise. This is the reason for the decreased size reported on the components selection screen; however, all relevant files are converted back to waveforms upon being installed.
To fix there is a bug with lava in mission Kindap (possible to swim in lava) in DromEd location (X=215,Y=90,Z=-8).
Hello I have a problem! The "MISPATCH" folder's .mis files cause my water ingame to become dark, very transparent and colorless. Any way to fix this?
The mission patch included in T2Fix enables NewDark's lightmapped water feature in the fixed original missions, which allows light to cast shadows on water surfaces. Especially in darker areas, this can result in water becoming very transparent and difficult to see in some instances, as you describe. This is baked into the mission files and cannot be altered without reprocessing them with the editor. If it bothers you, you can always uninstall the fixed missions by running T2Fix again and ensuring the component labeled "Complete Mission and Resource Fix" is not selected before continuing. However, you will also forego all other mission fixes that the package provides if you decide to do this.
Thank you for the report. There is a pocket of air under the lava at that particular location that can prevent the existing flow brush from appropriately damaging the player. Fortunately, this can be fixed rather easily.
Thanks for the reply!
Nice that newdark adds this option, but... see the screenshots here, taken near some lightsource/supposedly bright areas. in my opinion the Lightmaps are not working properly, as it appears just flat in one color ever near the lightsources. If it was working, the water would be very colorfully green/blue and bright near the light, and darkish away from them. But the blue/green color is just gone mostly and its flat and way too transparent. Probably it would be nice to revert this change, or to provide two different .mis to select when installing.
Last edited by jackinthebox; 14th Aug 2020 at 13:57.
Hello,
I'd like to ask how to optimize the Thief 2 game with a complicated config. I've installed the original two disc game in a Win 8.1 o.s machine which is based on a single chip Atom D2x00 having an integrated gpu that was known to not be the most supported gpu in history back in its days, the GMA3600 based on the SGX545 smartphone oriented architecture. This gpu had only Windows 7 32bit official driver that can be installed unofficially into Win 8.1. It's a full Directx 9.0c gpu @ 400Mhz and ran even bench like 3DMark2005 while its speed is really low considering it most probably only ask for few watts of the total 20W system.
Now.. I tried installing the game and then the T2Fix Lite patch with or without the 1.18 official patch and the only way I can get the game to work as supposed to, is disabling the Dx9 rendered into the cam_ext file and setting the game as windowed after that setting inside the menu the fullscreen resolution. With the newer dx9 renderer the introduction videos and the menu both windowed or full screen are unreadable with tiled texts and graphic errors so deep nothing can be read or seen of the original background but mostly seems some portion of the Win desktop graphic multiplied in many rectangles along with graphic pixel errors.. nothing can be even read not even the menu image but the sound was running. Going by memory and clicking with the mouse randomly I got to start a game and compared to the older renderer (that don't have menu or rendering problems), the 3D rendering incredibly seems ok and the frame rate much much faster but after a while (seconds) it hang and the process must be forced to close with task manager.
With the older renderer it run well with no graphic errors not any crash but quite slow in the 3D complex geometric scenes (like from 25fps to 15fps). I've already seen that many old Directx6 bench/games seems to run slower than newer and more complex ones in this config; the drivers or the gpu probably are not really well "retrogaming" oriented and have a difficult time in older games more than in newer ones at least in Directx. I don't know if it's cause the gpu were not meant for Win 8.x and everything is sort of forced to work in a o.s. not supposed to.
I've installed the latest Directx (11) for Win 8.1 and inside the folder there's the d3d9...dll file. I was thinking if that might be replaced with another version of that?
I've disabled anisotropic filtering, tried 16bit textures and various tweak on that config file but the old renderer still feels like it is still slow like an old 1998 card while the new renderer has both the unreadable start problems and the crash anyway. The cpu/gpu were low power ones but still is a 1.9Ghz (dual core) SSSE3 cpu with a 400Mhz Dx9 GPU.. it should easily work with it.
Last edited by 386SX; 18th Aug 2020 at 06:40.
yes, you indeed have what probably is the worst gpu in.. all the history of gpus, most likely (seriously, if you know about something even more horrible, I'm all ears). as you have found out, DX6+windowed only, and still slow as hell. make sure no graphics enhancements are installed, and that's it, can't do much more. also, don't blame NewDark, the DX9 mode runs flawlessly on a sis662/mirage1 graphics thing from the past that isn't even a gpu, and has 16MB of ram (yes, that means about 10 floppy disks).
I have the pleasure of having this emperor of intel integrated abominations in my backup netbook - can't even run the editor in hw mode. it was super-cheap, so I guess I got what I paid for.
Last edited by voodoo47; 18th Aug 2020 at 14:30.
ATI EGA, VGA Wonder series were worse because they were 1980s versions of graphics cards. They were not even the worst of their time.
"worse/worst" means they sucked hard at what they were supposed to do (or when compared to the competition). the Wonder series were ok doing what they were supposed to do (outputting video signal to your monitor), afaik.
nvidia pcx5300 would be a good example - it's an old agp architecture converted to pci-e using a hw bridge, expensive, slow, and with bad driver support. you could get a proper lowend gpu twice the speed and half the price at that time. no idea what were they thinking.
Obviously I suppose it's more a specific driver or gpu architecture (or both) problem because I've already seen other games having problems sometimes.
I can't say which is exactly the problem and I suppose is the driver not designed for Win8.x subsytem because I've seen a Youtube video of the same benchmarks and cpu/gpu running on the official Win7 and gave much higher bench values like 3300 in 3dmark2000 vs 1300 on mine but with mine and latest drivers runs as supposed graphically (better than that youtube video having strange bright rendering) with no errors and definetely accelerated but we are still talking about a 400Mhz core clocked T&L Dx9 (theorically even Dx10) gpu and newer bench shows better results for both later supported features like Pixel shading. Fact is that it runs 3DMark2005 and it's a very heavy bench and all the features runs with no graphic problems beside really really slow.
It'd be interesting to know how the older Atom N270 paired igpu did run old Dx6 games compared to this. I suppose it might have had better "retro compatibility" while this one was really good on paper but probably suffering a more OpenGL oriented smartphone architecture or maybe low driver optimization or simply not designed for old games at all.
I suppose if I'd find a way to run the dx9 renderer the gpu would be easily able to run it flawless. For the few time I've seen the dx9 first mission running before hanging (strange hang, sound still running the player seems moving but not responding to the keyboard anymore and remains stuck in some point of the map) it sure were running @ higher fps (much higher I suppose like double) and I've seen better games to run on it.. lately tried even Doom3 and ran slow @ medium detail but better than I expected. Same thing for Far Cry and GTA 4 not really "light" games..
Last edited by 386SX; 19th Aug 2020 at 08:37.
if it's using the SGX 545 chip, then things will inevitably suck. I've tried NewDark on a wide variety of other intel gpus, and they were fine - had to disable anti aliasing and 10-bit on the older ones (gma3000 or older), but apart of that, pretty much no issues (not so stellar performance, but no surprise there). with the exception of the SGX 545 based cards.
maybe you could try to install win10 and see what the ms repository throws at you - I mean, it can't be worse than the current win7 intel driver. btw, you know you suck hard at drivers if ms drivers are better than your own.
and yeah, putting smartphone graphics chips into regular computers, whoever thought that has been a brilliant idea with no chance of creating problems should get a medal of some sort.
The D2500 cpu had the GMA3600 SGX545@400Mhz while the GMA3650 was clocked @ 600Mhz. I suppose at that time there were not many solutions to integrate a newer featured gpu for such low power target. It must be considered also that I might imagine the GPU itself might ask (probably) something like 3W looking at the differences from desktop to 3D benchmarks and the power plug meter but I'd not be surprised if even less. But still bench numbers with the core frequency/DDR3, seems strange if we consider the features it has that were not that low end and fully DX9 almost DX10 if I remember.
The interesting thing is that once I randomly get to enter the Thief2 game with the DX9 rendered for the few seconds it will run, it definetely run MUCH smoother so the gpu is working better than the original renderer, who knows maybe for compatibility reasons with old type of games requirements. I've the feeling that those few youtube videos about this GPU seems to have graphic strange behaviours (bright rendering missing effects) and probably I might suppose latest driver who knows maybe solved those with some serious frame rate hit. I can't know for sure cause I don't have Win7 but it might be interesting to test latest drivers with it and see if the 3dmark2000 final result is the same of the one seen on youtube (3300 points) or like mine with Win8.1 (1300 points). That would explain something about it.
Anyway the o.s. still benefit a lot from the forced official driver cause the GUI is accelerated and quite fast, the resolution correct, the bench and games more or less runs as supposed to. It'd be interesting also to try some Directx to Opengl wrapper to see if thing would get better.
EDIT: I add some interesting numbers given by 3DMark2005, very heavy DX9 bench for such GPU but still it runs without any graphic errors. It gives: 726 score, 2781 CPU points, 608Mtexel/s single and 289Mtexel/s multi, Pixel Shader 10,9fps, Vertex Shaders simple 14,6MVertices/s complex 8,4MVertices/s. The difference from desktop to full 3D bench in watts of the whole system with minimal usb connections and ssd disk only, is like 3W.
Last edited by 386SX; 19th Aug 2020 at 15:01.
I have been reading a bit about these problems with the Intel GMA 3600, and there's only one page where someone describes how he got Windows 10 to install a driver for this card (other than MS' "Basic Display" driver):
https://www.journeybytes.com/windows...600-making-it/
Apparently, he was installing that driver literally with the help of a crowbar, a sledgehammer and some dynamite, and got a badly crippled but potentially usable Windows 10 with Intel GMA 3600 driver support in the end. I doubt it's worth all that hassle, but if you really want to try...
Make a backup of your Win10 installation before, though. And if you somehow need to pay money for Win10 or whatever you need in the process - forget it. At least that's my recommendation.
I think you have more luck if you get a Windows 7 32-bit to run again on the machine, and install the latest Intel drivers for that integrated graphics chip. That should be possible, and even work out-of-the-box.
Yes I read also about W10 running with some default drivers but I suspect the Win7 32bit drivers running on Win8.1 32bit results in much more hardware accelerated experience. I suppose W10 default drivers might not get the same results considering I don't think they could talk to the hardware acceleration for the GUI and the 3D APIs especially with such complicated gpu.
I don't have W10 anyway or Win7, I got only my own retail W8.1 version or Windows ME and lower genuine o.s. but at that point I'd build a period correct Directx6 machine, that would have more sense with this game and probably it would run much better than anything else with some Pentium3 and some 3dfx or ATi or Matrox cards of those times.
But I always liked these low power systems and lately using as main machine and they were not that bad. I've to say the W8.1 GUI accelerated by the original drivers works really fast and without any slowness. OpenGL games seems to run faster than Direct3D and it seems older games have some speed problems at least more than the usual slow more modern ones; maybe some retrocompatibility logic was introduced with the latest drivers to gain compatibility at the cost of frame rate. But who knows.
At the end games like Far Cry or Doom3 seems to push the limits of the GPU, not to mention GTA IV I tried. But incredibly all these games runs without many problems. At the end probably it will never be known if the problems were more the drivers or the gpu itself.
Last edited by 386SX; 19th Aug 2020 at 16:44.
The Win10 Basic Display drivers most likely cannot do anything hardware-related at all. My laptop has an Intel HD Graphics 3000, and since Intel and later MS have abandoned support for this rather old ISG (Intel Shitty Graphics) chip, Win10 only installs that Basic Display driver. It won't do any hardware acceleration, thus there is no support for any DirectX game. I guess the same would happen with the Intel GMA 3600.
For the HD 3000, one can install the last driver Intel published before handing over HD 3000 support to MS in 2015, and it seems to work quite well. I was able to verify this, mentioned by many on the web, by using an evaluation version of Win10 (1903). A bit old, but usable for testing such things.
But the net also says that no one was able to get old drivers for the GMA 3600 to work on Win10, except for the one mentioned in my last post. So, Win10 most likely isn't going to help you. It rather looks like the GMA 3600 drivers have some obscure problems and can't run Thief 2 for that reason. Many sources also list quite different DirectX abilities for the GMA 3600, ranging from DirectX 9.0c and DirectX 9.1 (never heard of that before!) to DirectX 10.1 - the latter only in theory, for no one has seen any driver doing that in reality.
Yes I suppose that Win10 drivers would not be better. I'd be more interested to see a Win7 Starter installation how it would run with latest official Intel drivers (the one I'm using) that are newer than the latest found for the mainboard itself page.
If I look for youtube GMA3600 videos it seems clear many games or bench seems to have rendering problems but the one with 3dmark2000 running has basically three times the frame rate maybe for those rendering errors? I suppose the latest drivers might have balanced the rendering problems with speed impact or maybe the problem is only related to how Win8.1 works compared to Win7. Obviously I'd have other ways to play this game, not to mention to build a correct Directx6 machine I've got old components for, but it was interesting to see this GPU pushed to its limits.
For example the above 3dmark05 results beside low, are still much higher than expected on a GPU that gives 1300 on 3dmark2000. So I might suspect Directx6 compatibility has been someway fixed in this way with some who knows logic if it runs (without anti aliasing or whatever) so slower than the youtube video that shows a 3300 score.
For example a card like a Geforce FX 5200 might have slower scores on 3dmark05 I suppose but ten times faster in 3dmark2000 I'd expect. Who knows where was the problem.
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