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Thread: T2Fix: An Unofficial Comprehensive Patch for Thief 2

  1. #451
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2020
    Yes I suppose that Win10 drivers would not be better. I'd be more interested to see a Win7 Starter installation how it would run with latest official Intel drivers (the one I'm using) that are newer than the latest found for the mainboard itself page.
    If I look for youtube GMA3600 videos it seems clear many games or bench seems to have rendering problems but the one with 3dmark2000 running has basically three times the frame rate maybe for those rendering errors? I suppose the latest drivers might have balanced the rendering problems with speed impact or maybe the problem is only related to how Win8.1 works compared to Win7. Obviously I'd have other ways to play this game, not to mention to build a correct Directx6 machine I've got old components for, but it was interesting to see this GPU pushed to its limits.
    For example the above 3dmark05 results beside low, are still much higher than expected on a GPU that gives 1300 on 3dmark2000. So I might suspect Directx6 compatibility has been someway fixed in this way with some who knows logic if it runs (without anti aliasing or whatever) so slower than the youtube video that shows a 3300 score.
    For example a card like a Geforce FX 5200 might have slower scores on 3dmark05 I suppose but ten times faster in 3dmark2000 I'd expect. Who knows where was the problem.

  2. #452
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2020
    Update: I've found that maybe changing the variable in the cam_ext file called wr_render_zcomp seems to have improved a bit the frame rate even if I'm not sure it was it. But still suffering in the wide areas. I'm playing the 5th level - Eavesdropping, quite scary level I'd say, I was thinking ghosts were only in the first Thief game and not expecting it.
    The z_far variable is set at 256 but I might lower it down to see if it improve a bit the frame rate that is quite variable from something like 25-30fps to even 10fps I suppose.
    Obviously disabled anti aliasing, tex_filter_mode si set at 2.
    Last edited by 386SX; 22nd Aug 2020 at 06:22.

  3. #453
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2020
    Update on the Atom / SGX545 gaming experience with Thief2... with the Directx6 old renderer and the windowed mode at fullscreen (but still windowed) I arrived at the latest level of the game but in this case the complexity of the map is really hurting the frame rate.
    By the way i never arrived this far in this game and it was a great experience, this is certainly a great game even after all this time.
    Too bad I began it with this config but also without the 1.18 patch because I never noticed that patch new objects were added to the graphic details in games, I am sure I've seen objects in the games that were not there in the 1.07 version.

    Anyway too bad I'm still trying to make the Directx9 renderer to work but no matter everything I tried I end up with the same results: an impossible to read menu/videos at the beginning made of many rectangles and nothing is even readable not even the mouse cursor while the menu runs, but when the game get to start it incredibly works for few seconds with perfect rendering and probably two/three times the frame rate speed but it hang in a strange way: the game still run, you can hear the sound of the player moving etc.. while the graphic seems to stop/pause like the player is moving itself in a specific point and can't get to the menu for the above problem.
    I suspect obviously the gpu and the forced Win7 drivers are not supported in this Win 8.1 o.s. but it might have something to do with both the GUI itself of the o.s. (that's accelerated by the GPU) and the way the menu is designed. It's also strange that the same menu graphic error happens to the videos themself like the menu. The frame rate of the Directx6 renderer instead I suspect might have something to do with the windowed mode.. the fullscreen mode can't start saying no video mode supported found or something like that maybe is trying to run @ a resolution that in the Directx6 listed resolutions for this GPU is not supported (maybe 16bit). But if I get to run the Directx9 renderer the frame rate is really probably double the old one. The gfx crash that happen after is probably another problem too.
    I'm trying some Directx to Opengl wrappers but I can't see any differences. What would you suggest? I've tried most cam_ext options.

  4. #454
    Registered: Sep 2004
    check the NewDark docs, more cam_ext settings are exposed there. have you checked single_display_mode and ui_scale_mode? if set properly, I think you can have no 3d acceleration and scaling for the main menu, which could help in this case. wrappers probably won't help, because there will be a performance cost, and you can hardly afford that.

    anyway, you should get some sort of prize for completing the game on that hardware.
    Last edited by voodoo47; 7th Sep 2020 at 12:10.

  5. #455
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2020
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    check the NewDark docs, more cam_ext settings are exposed there. have you checked single_display_mode and ui_scale_mode? if set properly, I think you can have no 3d acceleration and scaling for the main menu, which could help in this case. wrappers probably won't help, because there will be a performance cost, and you can hardly afford that.

    anyway, you should get some sort of price for completing the game on that hardware.

    It wasn't necessary a bad gaming experience, more or less what a medium-low end system in the 1999 could have done with this game once released. I think to remember it was an heavy game beside some powerful cards like the Voodoo3 or the early Geforce series.
    The rendering was ok, I've not seen any gfx errors in the dx6 windowed mode. The only problems came in the more complex map areas where the frame rate strangely had serious problems. I've checked the thief logs and it's interesting how with the dx6 renderer it shows a generic "Direct3D Hardware acceleration through Direct3D HAL" while with the dx9 enabled it shows loading the gma36xx dll drivers directly and the frame rate as said is not even comparable like probably three times really higher. Also the strange hangs in the graphic in this mode is more or less unlocked if you go back to the desktop gui and come back to the background game.. I suppose has something to do with how these new o.s. runs with the GUI.
    Anyway I'm at the latest level without using any cheats or tricks, normal difficulty, but this level seems to be quite a long one and it will takes time to build the antenna things and all the objectives. But still it's probably the only/first PC games I've almost finished since when Half Life 2 was released and I'm surprised I had the patience to arrive this far.

    For the menu problems, I suppose has something to do with how the menu is designed through the directx9 dll that I suppose differs from the old dx6 one maybe is accelerated by default. Also I was reading this:

    ;scale menu system to fit screen (in "single_display_mode") using 3D HW for best quality
    (if you're having trouble like a black screen when starting the game try mode 0 or 1)
    ; when "use_d3d_display" is enabled, 3D HW is always used, this only sets the scale mode to fit screen

    so I suppose it would always use the d3d9 for the menu is it right?
    Last edited by 386SX; 7th Sep 2020 at 07:49.

  6. #456
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2020
    Update: to better play with the latest heavier episode of Thief2 I tried installing an ancient Geforce FX 5200 PCI (256MB DDR 128bit) forcing latest Vista drivers. It works even if I'd say slower in the GUI compared to the SGX545, so in the video decoding (obviously it only have MPEG2 support) and as expected slower in Directx9 bench/games. I tried 3DMark03,05 and Thief3 and all are slower.
    Anyway at least the Directx9 renderer of Thief2 this time ran. And I'd say really well with the frame rate smooth as it should be. I was expecting this card to be a bit faster generally but both the drivers not designed for the o.s. specifically and the PCI bus are a bad combination and also I probably forgot how slow it was even in its time. Still I'm playing the latest episode finally with the frame rate is higher than 30 fps.
    Anyway, I enabled most singal B antenna, made and installed that signal thing into its place, I've only to get out of the building but the front door seems locked and I've no the right key to open it or with the tools.

    EDIT: I finished the game! But what a bad ending.. I was expecting a bit more epic ending..
    Anyway I'm glad I had to not use cheat or read guide or whatever even if I was in the normal difficulty only. Now I can buy the first Thief and meanwhile I already have Thief3 since it was released but never really liked the changes they did in the game. But I suppose with the patch if I can get it to work (the game start but during loading it crash back to the desktop and it doesn't happens without the patch).
    Last edited by 386SX; 13th Sep 2020 at 12:50.

  7. #457
    Registered: Sep 2004
    ooh, is this some sort of weird desktop pc with just pci slots available? maybe a gf6200 or a radeon hd2400 (pci versions exist) would work better (windows 8 drivers are available, and those generally work ok with win10), but I can't imagine those being available anywhere at sane price levels - special purpose graphics hardware is insanely expensive lately.

    checked the prices of 3dfx cards on ebay few weeks ago after a long while - madness.

  8. #458
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2020
    Yeah it is one of those mini-itx board having these Atom cpus that back in its time for some strange reasons didn't have a PCI-E slot not x16 or x1 but only the old PCI slot. I can imagine that back than had more sense for industrial PCI components but from the bios it looks like that bus was already oriented for an external graphic card. And considering the board has in some models the mini pci-e connector soldered they could.
    Anyway I already bought a Geforce 210 for this bus and I'll try it in the next weeks. This was the most modern while still cheap version of a "new" video card I found. Also the FX 5200 PCI did cost me time ago, it's rare too. There're also some Geforce GT430, GT520, GT610 version on this bus but quite rare and as said expensive but also heavily limited by the bus so without many expectations. Also the power wattage is a point to consider where 25W should be the maximun for the PCI bus itself. Basically the video card will ask for more watts than the whole system itself psu included.
    For example:
    with the SGX545 iGPU the whole system in idle 14 watts and maximun 18 watts
    with the FX5200 PCI the whole system in idle 29 watts and maximun 40 watts
    Last edited by 386SX; 14th Sep 2020 at 06:34.

  9. #459
    Registered: Sep 2004
    the 210 drivers were awful at DX10 if memory serves, but luckily enough, NewDark is DX9, so that shouldn't matter too much.

  10. #460
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2020
    I didn't know that. But anyway I suppose I'll not run modern games into this config that still would be really low end considering the cpu and the gpu. But I suppose the gpu might work better with Win 8.1 and older games should run as supposed to.
    The only thing I was wondering is that I might find the PCI bus to be a serious limit to the whole system, internal sound card too cause that happened with the FX 5200 PCI when there were stressing moments with the system sort of "waiting" for the graphic card to continue when probably the internal GMA/SGX gpu has its own AGP or PCI-E faster chipset bus.
    Anyway after finished the game I uninstalled the FX 5200 PCI considering every other things ran slower and I was trying Thief 3 with the SGX545 until I'll get the new card. It's interesting that the game without the bloom effect in the menu, runs @ "acceptable" frame rates (maybe 20fps@1024x768) but the modern patches seems to have problems with both the D3D8 to D3D9 wrapper and/or something with the minimalistic patch where part of the graphic results seems to flash or having gfx errors and strangely this doesn't happens with original installation.
    But still the original installation works faster then the FX 5200 PCI. Difficult to say if cause the o.s./driver combination or the iGPU being really "faster".
    Last edited by 386SX; 16th Sep 2020 at 08:17.

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