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Thread: T2Fix: An Unofficial Comprehensive Patch for Thief 2

  1. #151
    Dóttirin klęšist oft móšur möttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    Some examples:
    -Stupid Grimrock Reloaded on expert (climbing on torches required).
    -Zontiks upcoming Patriot Series will be doomed (climbing on fences, streetlamps and whatnot).
    -Rebellion of the Builder 2 (fences and whatnot)
    The mission were made with new mantle in mind.

  2. #152
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    now we're talking. ok then, my personal recommendation is to fix the old FMs via FMdml, and anyone building new ones would be encouraged to add the mantleable=true prop to any/all odd concrete objects that they are sure should be mantleable no matter what. again, good practice saves future headaches for everybody.

    alternatively, the T2Fix gamesys.dml could be fingerprinted, so a fm author could reject it completely and easily just by adding a proper qvar to their gamesys, if that's what they would want. so many options, and all you have to do is just stop arguing about who's breaking the game and who isn't, agree upon some common rules, uphold them, and live happily ever after.
    Last edited by voodoo47; 23rd Apr 2019 at 07:30.

  3. #153
    Dóttirin klęšist oft móšur möttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    Go ahead and test all NewDark missions from the beginning. Properly. Then do dmls.

  4. #154
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    The idea to encourage new authors to add props or qvars makes no sense to me. How do you expect to notify all old and new authors of this?
    Last edited by marbleman; 23rd Apr 2019 at 08:03.

  5. #155
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    I'm not going to test all FMs obviously, I really don't have the time right now even if I wanted to.

    anyway, what I'm trying to say here (as someone who has been solving very similar problems in the SS2 environment), is that if an universal patcher for a game that is very commonly used by people exists, it would be prudent if fm authors acknowledged its existence, and adopted a few very basic standards that will make sure everything runs better for everyone (mtl'ing the water would be a very good example. same goes for EP2, ideally, the fm author should be aware that people will want to use a hires texture pack, and construct the mission in a compatible way. as far as fingerprinting is concerned, SS2 fm the Minstrel is where I fully tested this - the fm now has two extra qvars, one will identify it as a fm, the other as the Minstrel, this means any patcher or mod can check this and apply any/all extra settings or tweaks accordingly. that means there are no issues with mods like RealSG or Repairman).

    I'd assume fm authors frequent this forum, don't they? I'd also assume they had to learn how to build missions somewhere, how to set the resources up etc, also what not to do to make their missions run without Dark crashing and so on. so having them pick one or two more good habits up doesn't seem too far fetched.

    I had to learn a lot of editor stuff so I could fix SS2 up, and if I can do it, anyone can.
    Last edited by voodoo47; 23rd Apr 2019 at 12:28.

  6. #156
    Dóttirin klęšist oft móšur möttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    If the dmls or FM loaders would recognize a time stamp in order to load dmls, it could patch the the olddark missions only. The year 2012 would be enough.

  7. #157
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    that doesn't sound like a reliable way of fingerprinting, if you ask me.

  8. #158
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2015
    Quote Originally Posted by Unna Oertdottir View Post
    If the dmls or FM loaders would recognize a time stamp in order to load dmls, it could patch the the olddark missions only. The year 2012 would be enough.
    Yes, that would be preferable, but it, unfortunately, is not possible to fingerprint a DML in that way to my knowledge. It should be possible to implement a similar solution in FM loaders if we decide to go that route.

    This will not be implemented if it is known that some missions will not be playable. Though in the case of The Rebellion of the Builder 2, it would actually not cause an issue since the custom gamesys has the 10'ironFence object set to be unmantleable by default, with all exceptions reflected in changes on the concrete objects it requires. It does, unfortunately, look like it would affect your mission, The Stupid Grimrock Quote Reloaded, because it requires climbing on torches.

    While it appears some NewDark FMs may not be compatible with such a change, it is also true that many older FMs remain broken because of its absence. Perhaps we can look into a way to fingerprint the gamesys DML so that it only applies to the missions that require it, or perhaps one that rejects missions which would not welcome this.

  9. #159
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    I'd argue that this would still fix many, and break just a couple, hence, dml fixing those few that have problems with the global fix would make more sense.

    if I were really evil, I would perhaps add that whoever makes torch mantling mandatory in their mission, deserves whatever problems are coming. *connects the tips of his fingers*

  10. #160
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2015
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    I'd argue that this would still fix many, and break just a couple, hence, dml fixing those few that have problems with the global fix would make more sense.
    I can understand that point of view, and it certainly would fix many, but considering I do not have a complete list of NewDark missions and their reliance on mantling on certain objects, I am extremely hesitant to implement a global change, especially considering the effect it may have on some newer or perhaps future missions.

    In lieu of this, perhaps it would be most appropriate to leave fan mission authors to their own devices while individually fixing issues resulting from new mantle in older missions. This is certainly feasible in the ongoing Thief 2 FMDML project, which has already fixed several of these issues. Additionally, I have gone through the original missions and made changes where applicable, as it is quite obvious that they were constructed without the intention to mantle on certain objects. Authors building missions with NewDark in mind should test and address issues that may arise with new mantle, and indeed most have, making changing the mantling behavior of these newer missions either destructive or simply redundant.

  11. #161
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    your choice, as always - I'll just add LampPost and CemetaryGate to the TFix nomantle dml and laugh dr. Evil style.

  12. #162
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Glad this is out. Thanks. Just wondering though, is it portable? I mean, can it be used on any T2 folder and then that folder be moved?

  13. #163
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    yes, after patching up, the T2 install will be portable.

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