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Thread: "Patriot" - T2 campaign (May 2019)

  1. #51
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    For some people, Darkloader still runs fine. For others (like me), it doesn't.

  2. #52
    Registered: May 2006
    Location: Russia
    I think it's because of ZIP file size and maybe depends on your operating system. Size is over 2 Gb, old OS + old loaders can't handle it. I've got XP, DarkLoader can't install the campaing, New Dark Loader can't even start itself, FMselector works fine.

  3. #53
    Registered: Jun 2015
    Location: Hungary
    I've finished the campaign some time ago. I can say it was a good job, congrats on that!

    I'd like to share my thought opinion about the missions (may contain spoilers about the story, etc.)
    Note: Played it all on expert.
    Mission 1: This was a fine mission. I had some difficulties finding some of the switches, most notably the one in the basement, but I could do it all on my own. The map was helpful finding a large portion of the required loot, but most of it was quite possible to find/guess out whatever.
    The fighting people were quite annoying, since the fight seemed kind of everlasting, also Garrett was the top priority target for both parties which I found kinda stupid.
    Overall good mission, the map was helpful, finding important things was a bit difficult but doable.

    Mission 2: Absolutely fun mission. And the ambient music was great. In the final chase it felt VERY uncomfortable but probably it just mean it's well done.

    Mission 3: Nice mission, liked the ways of entering and leaving.
    Though the objective of don't causing alarm or whatever which was randomly cancelled at some point made me a bit annoyed. But everything was nicely build up and ghosting was finely possible on 99% of the mission.

    Mission 4: Again a well done mission. Victoria's part was quite straightforward.
    Garrett's part was also OK. What was easily missed is the entry point, I failed to find that, instead somehow managed to descend down next to the tunnel without breaking my neck. That darkness in the mines was a good feature of this mission. The only thing what was really difficult was to find that scroll about the location of the explosives. Also had no idea if there was any way to ignite the charges other than a fire arrow. Fortunately I had 2 of them.

    Mission 5: This is the point where my troubles started.
    Basically the mission was also nicely done, but pathfinding was a mess. Sometimes I did it via some unconvetional ways - though it might be meant to be done so. But what really annoyed me was the fact, that to reach certain places I had to like walk around half of the map, passing like 10 fake doors which would be leading to some already explored part of the mission. Also the same problem with the secret armory, where the only way in was that hour-long trip with that transporter machine.
    Also the fifth bomb was ridiculous. I was running in circles before checking the spoilers to realise I miss a random container, and where is it eventually, also no hints, nothing, though I figured out the rest of it before finding that container. That could've been done far more easily I think

    Mission 6: Now this mission was the nadir.
    The bushes around the place made such a texture overflow, the game ridiculously slowed them if I was looking at them from close. Also the ways to leave at all the first area was like... whatthe?
    I couldn't even leave the starting area on my own, wasting a lot of time and looking around what the taff I missed. Nevertheless after I could leave that place it still went unwell. The last thing I could do was finding that pauldron of course, but that was just so random.
    "Find a way thru' the quicksands, so you walk to the way through the quicksands to find the major's pauldron just right there.

    Also the "dark forest" stuff misled me. I thought the dark forest is the area with the spider-like bugs and toxic mushroom, but turned out that area is just completely useless I haven't ever found anything useful there, and reached that place from the shores, so circumvented the only possible way.

    After I've found my way up to shame it was light and straightforward, but I really felt pity for her and found the way Garrett acted so much not of him, just like murdering a probably innocent person without a second thought.

    Mission 7: I felt, I'm back to the track in this mission. Though it was really confusing, that there was no map - seems like I didn't find it earlier.
    The positive part is, that exploring the area kinda put the puzzle-pieces together. One issue I had was missing the key behind the curtain. That was evil, really.
    Also I found it odd why on the earth I couldn't save Sister Morra since I had the keyring and could just open her cage. --- though in the ending at least her case felt justified

    What I didn't understood was the supposedly fake doors in the belltower though. They could be circumvented (but it was kinda tricky in my opinion) but found no way to open them and no apparent reason why they couldn't be opened.
    Also I've found it kinda lucky, that a golden candlestick in plain view from the planks around the bell is considered a secret, but some other loot reachable from the same place - by climbing the kinda hidden stairs leading upwards from there is not a secret

    What was yet difficult was the way of leaving. I haven't find anything hinting how and where to do that and didn't understood, why it isn't okay to descend on the wall, where it was possible.

    Altogether this mission was awesome and really atmospheric, really loved this one.

    Mission 8: I loved this one. It was very interesting and absorbing to investigate and look for clues all around.
    Also this mission justified the presence of that poison, which I didn't understand why would Garrett carry all the time as it were The Eye itself.
    Everything was well-made here. The only problem is the fact that it's completely unobvious, that the priest opens up the cathedral after finding the required amount of evidence.

    But in my opinion this is one of the missions in this campaign, it's interesting and though often with difficulties, but mostly it's puzzles can be solved all through the map.

    Mission 9: An advanced version of the "classic mansion mission", enjoyed it very much, the only possible issue is missing the small side-mansion completely, which I've "successfully" done, by going to the other way on the start, then entering the mansion and doing everything else

    Other than that, everything was nicely done in the mission.

    Mission 9 3/4: The river view was awesome!

    And the plot twist was had very nice outcome in my opinion.
    Though I felt pity for poor Victora, and at all didn't understood why it happened to her.

    Mission 10: This mission was mostly fine. The only problem I had was the area after the 3D labyrinth. That tiny switch is like impossible to spot and just makes no sense. The same goes for the fake-entrance, heavily guarded by combat bots. What?
    I thought I was missing something in the labyrinth and went back wandering around totally clueless until I've read here about that tiny-switch.
    Other than this nuance everything was nicely made in this mission.

    Tricking the ber-robots was nice. However as soon as I unwear the mask they start attacking and the flamethrower goes through the doors too
    Also very much loved the appearance of the keeper enforcers, though I have no idea, where'd they come from

    And part of the ending was quite, unexpected. I think it wasn't too much of a surprise who Capellan turned out to be is, but the acts of the keepers was a but surprising. And also the surprise of the keepers was surprise

    (on a side note that I think at the end of T3 the keepers either disbanded and/or Garrett took the leadership in their order which makes me think their actions and even their mere existence odd for me; but of course this could be also the result of some kind of takeover power-wise within their order)

    Altogether this campaign was awesome. At some point I think it was difficult in frustrating way on the negative side; but on the positive, it implemented (or re-implemented) lots of awesome in-game stuff had a very clever design, and a really absorbing story.
    Well done, and many thanks again for doing it!

  4. #54
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by baeuchlein View Post
    For some people, Darkloader still runs fine. For others (like me), it doesn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zontik View Post
    I think it's because of ZIP file size and maybe depends on your operating system. Size is over 2 Gb, old OS + old loaders can't handle it. I've got XP, DarkLoader can't install the campaing [...]
    Something like that, yes. On my Win7 x64 system, it was interesting - the english version of "Patriot" could not be installed with DarkLoader, but the (slightly smaller) russian one apparently could. However, there are other reasons why DarkLoader might be problematic. Sometimes, scripts apparently are handled differently, and DML files as well, as Unna Oertdottir recently pointed out for one or two old T1 FMs.

    And on my system, DarkLoader cannot properly handle multi-language missions any more since about NewDark v1.24. Other people still have no problems with that.

    Bottom line: If DarkLoader works for someone - fine. If it doesn't, one should try another, more modern FM loader.

  5. #55
    Registered: Sep 2003
    Location: Frederikssund, Denmark
    What an impressive work!
    Thanks a lot for these great missions.
    They where a bit hard to figure out a some times, but very well build and creative story.

  6. #56
    Registered: May 2015
    Location: Hungary
    Zontik, I too have finished this campaign. I don't say "at last", even it was a long-long playtime (31h 4m excluded the reloads and attpemts to proceed somehow)
    I play Thief and fan missions almost from the beginning, and in this ca 19 years, this campaign was the hardest and most complicated/challenging one for me. There were so many special actions that were really challenging to find out them. There were huge areas to roam up and down, so many places accessible in a special way, not simply through a door... Playing was really very frustrating for me many times. Oh, and your damn frightening giant iron beasts - please everybody, forget using them again... never ever!
    ...but you created incredible and beautiful places, i just can say a wow... Because of the special and not usual actions, places, ai-s and the storyline, this campaign was much more than a Thief campaign for me.

    So, Zontik, thank you very much for your years-long work, it was amazing.

    Could you please tell me which is the missing last secret in mission 9? Or where should i search for it?

  7. #57
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: here
    1000 Thanx for your hard fine! work. Ist Great !! And thanx for all comments and helps

  8. #58
    Registered: Dec 2004

    update or modernize darkloader

    could anyone please update darkloader so rebellion and patriot could run on it?

  9. #59
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    I can't have this mission to be listed in FM selector , Garrettloader or darkloader, why?

  10. #60
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    i found fmsel runs thief 2 fm's the best

  11. #61
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by downwinder View Post
    i found fmsel runs thief 2 fm's the best
    but it's not working with me, probably il have to install manually this mission.

  12. #62
    Registered: May 2006
    Location: Russia
    FM selector is a part of New Dark Engine, it should work. Probably you did something wrong.
    Anyway, manual installation is not difficult at all if you have a spare folder copy of T2.

  13. #63
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zontik View Post
    FM selector is a part of New Dark Engine, it should work. Probably you did something wrong.
    Anyway, manual installation is not difficult at all if you have a spare folder copy of T2.
    I installed the SND and movie folder apart, and removed them from the main Patriot zip file, that way my darkloader is able to read the file and install it. im already on the 3th mission and im loving it so far, but it's challenging

  14. #64
    Registered: Sep 2007
    Location: Leipzig (Germany)
    Help comes with the walkthroughs from the youtube channel man "Black Secrit" with his Playlist. Look here, if you could'nt go further in one mission.

  15. #65
    Registered: May 2015
    Location: Hungary
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Sahnebacke View Post
    Help comes with the walkthroughs from the youtube channel man "Black Secrit" with his Playlist. Look here, if you could'nt go further in one mission.
    Hey, wow, that's great! Thank you

  16. #66
    Registered: Feb 2006
    Location: Nulli Secundi
    Just recently completed this campaign. Took my sweet time and enjoyed every moment. There were parts that didn't seem intuitive at first but once I started to understand Zontik's style then things came together.

    Many thanks for the vast amount of work and effort it took to make this fantastic campaign. In my opinion, one of the very best I've ever played since I start Thieving back in '98. Well done!! Your mastery of mission design, story arc, character movements, music, etc. are fantastic.

    The only drawback to playing this lengthy campaign is I occasionally catch myself whistling that Menu music at random times after hearing it so much over the past several months.

  17. #67
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2016
    You pay for the headache I have with gathering loot in mission 1 Got 1976 loot and no idea where to look further :/

  18. #68
    Registered: Jul 2005
    Wow! What an adventure! Expert all the way through didn't make things easy, there's some hard areas and I did have to look up hints at times.

    Total Time for ALL missions: 32h 10min
    Total Loot collected = 15,414.

  19. #69
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2016
    That was an excellent campaign, and a tough one.

    Thank you Zontik for your huge effords, these missions had to be tons of work. All of the missions were great and I counld not actually tell wich one was weaker, because even if they are sometimes not exactly meeting my taste, they were well-designed and nearly bug-free. One innovative idea followed another, like the slow-fall-umbrella or the switching between Garrett and Victoria. The ingame cuscenes also worked fine and had new animations. The difficulty was high and some secrets were nearly impossible to find, but therefore we have ttlg.

    The only things I have to put on the cons side is in some cases the plot. I really tried to find a workaround to not have to kill Shame, but you left us no choice. Because in my oppinion, and as Thief has teached us often enough, Garrett is a thief, not a cold blooded murderer. But I'm okay with it. In Some places, the pathfinding actually was very strange or did not work, for example when you tried to climb down the ladder to the 2nd armory in Mission 5. Maybe you cound fix that, if you update the mission some day.

    But as I mentioned before, the missions contain many creative ideas and the kind of humor we already know from "KS" or "Upside Down". Thanks again for the efford you put in the missions and if you will release something in the future, I definitely will play it

  20. #70
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirgo View Post
    in my oppinion, and as Thief has teached us often enough, Garrett is a thief, not a cold blooded murderer.
    That image is not consistent. The intro movies of Thief 1 and Thief 2 both show that a thief (most likely Garrett, although that is never confirmed in these movies) shoots and kills unalerted guards with just one arrow. This is cold blooded murder, I believe.

    A few days ago I also finished the campaign, which was great to look at and listen to, but also at several times a pain in the butt. Visuals and sounds were very good, and the author also shows that he can build large landscapes without the feel that they are empty and/or repetitive. Re-programming the game's menus also doesn't look trivial to me. Then there were several not exactly all-new things which were impressive nonetheless: The train ride and its conclusion, the lanterns for the dark mines, the views above the cityscape in mission 8 and above the monastery grounds in mission 7, the deadly swamp as well as the forest area in mission 6, the sword/dagger and its effect in mission 8, the unpleasantly loud (but realistic) factory environment in mission 5. There also were the conversations of Garrett with several other people. And, of course, the maps which were more than simple sheets, showing where Garrett had been during the mission. Last but not least there were numerous movies including several cutscenes. Not many missions or campaigns have all this together.

    There is one big gripe, though. Many times, I was reduced ever and ever again to aimlessly searching the whole map/level for anything that either brought me forward, or the story. Usually, one does not know what this "anything" actually is, or where it might be. The player is repeatedly forced to stumble through the whole landscape again like a dumb ox, just to cause something that triggers the next part of the story. This was especially often the case in mission 9 ("Enemy"). I have seen such things in missions for some years now and really, really find that boring. Please, authors, give the player better guidance as to where he might go or what it might be that he shall look for!

    There are also several instances where the player is forced to walk almost the longest path possible to get something. Once again in mission 9, there is the need to find fuel for a generator. On easiest difficulty level, if one could go through a window (the one that is dirty when you first arrive at it), he would get from the generator to the fuel and back again in about a minute. But the player is instead forced to leave the house where the generator sits, forced to climb back over the wooden barrier (or make a difficult jump from a roof), forced to go around the mansion grounds for about 270 degrees, back into the mansion, into the room where the fuel is (and one door to that room is hidden behind large generators or turbines), pick up the fuel, and then all the way back once again. Is it really that difficult to find an "excuse" to place a door next to the dirty window and having an opening mechanism only on the other side? That way, all this long backtracking could have been significantly reduced.

    I have mixed feelings about the story. On the one hand, the plot is far more than just a simple "there's the biggest badass of all time, and Garrett has to kill him to save himself, mankind, and the universe as well". On the other hand, I did not understand anymore who worked for which side, and why, when I finally reached the very end of the campaign.

    And, once again mainly in mission 9, there were things to be found and deeds to be done that the player could only achieve if he found something several missions earlier. Technically impressive, but if someone didn't found the "trigger object" in a former mission, this only leads to confusion. This is especially unpleasant in the last mission, where the player obviously should remember something he might have read in mission 5, namely that readable mentioning the Helm of Karras telling him how to deal with the two super-sized robots just before driving down with the elevator (and cooking and drinking at least one coffee during the long and not very interesting journey with the lift).

    By the way, compressing the sounds with Ogg Vorbis almost cut the size of this campaign's zip file in half and made it playable with DarkLoader again - I played through almost the whole campaign with that old FM loader, then. As I repeatedly said, I am not a friend of this old loader anymore, but I won't force FMSel or any other new loader on any player either. If one fucks up his entiry Thief 2 directory with FartLoader, though, that's his problem then... And for Ogg Vorbis, there are at least two tools available which can do the process almost automatically for complete directories.

    I think the campaign could have profited a lot from better guiding the player around (without putting him on a leash), and squeezing the zip a lot wouldn't have hurt either.
    Last edited by baeuchlein; 4th Dec 2019 at 12:35. Reason: Typos, typos, and more typos. Oh dear!

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