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Thread: Is it possible to make missions with choosing the objective?

  1. #1
    New Member
    Registered: May 2018

    Is it possible to make missions with choosing the objective?

    Okay, first I expect no, since there is a lot of great and complicated fanmissions, and there's no thing as such(or I didn't met so far). Also I know nothing about technical aspects of making a fanmission, please forgive me. It is more rhetorical question.

    Is it possible to create option to "choose" objectives in fanmission? An example:
    You can either bring "thieves guild plans" to the blue capes, or give "blue capes plans" to thieves guild.
    Which gives you multiple optional objectives, but realizing one from a "group" will cancel the rest of objectives from another. The point is to create simple "choosing faction" or choosing way to deal with "the problem" element in a story.

    There are plenty fanmissions with hidden optional objectives. I'm sure there is something which prevents creators to make something like that in a fanmissions, I am curious what it is, or maybe there is plenty of factors?
    If there are such fanmission no matter how small that tries to realize something similar, do you know some? Could you bring the examples? I want to try on myself how it is work with thief game, if it's fun or actually isn't worthy the time and energy spent to create something like that.

  2. #2
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach
    It's not technically impossible, it is just complicated. And I suspect no authors have had both the idea and the determination to make it work in a FM before.

    I did something slightly similar in my FM Dance With the Dead, where besides picking a standard difficulty level, once in game you also choose a gameplay mode, which drastically alters the availability of tools and potions etc. within the game. That's not the same as choosing between different objectives, though. It's a cool idea though, maybe some author will see this and get inspired!

  3. #3
    Dóttirin klęšist oft móšur möttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    It's possible to do story lines using different goal threads. Doing this requires a very good plan or the FM author will get grey hair soon. The person who has to fix this in a dml afterwards is doomed

    There are some FMs with additional goals and areas on different difficulties. The FMs by RiCh are very good doing this.

    https://thiefmissions.com/search.cgi...ull%20(RiCh)#m

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    In Kings Story, there’s a decision point which affects the objectives going forward. It sounds like you could just iterate that to create multiple branching options. But, as Yandros says, it’ll get really complicated really fast.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    On a technical level, this is possible: when any of objective A, or B, or C is completed, it cancels (and perhaps hides) objectives X, Y, and Z. And vice-versa, when any of objective X, Y, and Z is completed, it cancels (and perhaps hides) A, B, and C. This can be achieved with qvartraps and other logic objects, or through scripts. On a gameplay level, you’d also need to think carefully about how you communicate the situation to the player, so that they understand that there is a choice for them to make, and what actions they have to do to make their choice.

    My own experience with dynamic objectives: in Making a Profit, I have several objectives that can be fulfilled different ways, and they also enable or cancel out other objectives or objective-related voiceover; this ends up working a little bit similar to what you’re asking about. I found that trying to do this using qvartraps and so on in the traditional way was much too complicated and very fragile. But using a little Squirrel scripting made it much easier to do: with the right approach, the scripting need only be as complicated as the branches in your plan for the objectives.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Sounds as complex as CoSaS: Mission X, whilst not technically as you describe, is probably as close to players choosing their own path as it gets.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2011
    Location: Planet Crazy Pants
    I seem to remember Firemage doing something such as choosing a faction, or what "side" of an incident you want to play; Thieves or Cops iirc.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    I think Firemage's mission was "Caprice - The Overlord's Ending". I believe that the player chooses the side to play on via the difficulty level.

    Another mission in which a lot of the story and objectives are defined by the difficulty level is "A Weekend Getaway". The player is advised to play the mission subsequently on all three "difficulty levels" to get the whole story.

    There also is a mission called "The Ghost House (The Haunted Hospital)". At the beginning, the player chooses whether to play "The Ghost House" or "The Haunted Hospital". This does influence not only the objectives, but also the map layout.

    Finally, there are a few objectives in the first mission of Soul Tears "Keeper of Infinity" campaign which may or may not appear depending on what the player does first. These objectives are formulated slightly different, and technically seen, they appear to be different objectives/goals. The main storyline is not altered significantly, though, regardless of what the player does when.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Sheffield, UK
    In my one and only mission there's a sleeping drug dealer, if you wake him up he runs & fetches the guards, but if you find the evidence of his dealing & drop it on the guard commanders desk first they'll kill him on sight, that's about as complicated as I got

    But I believe it's possible, trigger one objective and it cancels others, AI can then be switched to being on different sides, areas can be made off limits with barriers and the story you're telling changes, but it ain't easy

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    Death's Turbid Veil had two objectives that were an "either or" - completing one would invalidate the other. Anything's possible. Hell, you could have a complex story that branches at multiple points with wildly different endings if you wanted. Quest variables are powerful things.

    I think the reason it doesn't happen more is just the complexity and amount of work involved. It's a huge amount of work just to make a finished mission with a single, linear story. The more choices you add, the more work you are making for yourself, potentially exponentially if you have choices within choices.

  11. #11
    New Member
    Registered: May 2018
    Thank you for all the responses! They explained clearly why there's "no" such missions.

    Especially thank you for mentioning the missions which plays with the idea of choosing the goals. Great for future reference.
    I'll download and play them to see how it works in practice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esme
    In my one and only mission there's a sleeping drug dealer, if you wake him up he runs & fetches the guards, but if you find the evidence of his dealing & drop it on the guard commanders desk first they'll kill him on sight, that's about as complicated as I got
    Could you bring the name of the mission? Thanks.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    The only mission by Esme listed on "Cheap Thief Missions" is "Bafford's Town House" from 2008. It must be that one. I never finished it, so I don't know about any sleeping drug dealer.

    Another mission that came to mind just now is Timon's "Prezent" (that would be "Present" in English), a mission which only existed in Polish language. I do not know whether it can still be downloaded or not. Anyway, the player can find evidence for a crime there, and may choose to give that evidence to the victim, to the one who commited the crime, or to the guards. Depending on what the player does, a text is displayed which explains the consequences of the player's action. However, there is nothing more after that. I do not even remember where there are any objectives (regardless of whether they are hidden or not) which are influenced by all this. Maybe the player even does not have to bring the evidence to anyone and can still complete the mission.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Sheffield, UK
    Quote Originally Posted by wycha View Post
    Thank you for all the responses! They explained clearly why there's "no" such missions.

    Especially thank you for mentioning the missions which plays with the idea of choosing the goals. Great for future reference.
    I'll download and play them to see how it works in practice.

    Could you bring the name of the mission? Thanks.
    I was about to say it's in my signature, but my signature is turned off duh ... we need a facepalm smiley, should be a signature on this one

    I should warn you the dropping of the evidence on the desk is a bit flakey, I really must redo that one day

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by Esme View Post
    I should warn you the dropping of the evidence on the desk is a bit flakey, I really must redo that one day
    Should be able to fix that with a dml, have you got a save?

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Sheffield, UK
    Afraid not, I haven't played it through for ages

    I was a newby at dromed so I made a small volume on top of the desk & when the evidence was dropped into it it would trigger the objective & become unfrobbable

    Unfortunately the evidence could bounce out of the volume, stay unfrobbable & untrigger the objective, or it could stick floating at a weird angle

    I needed to do a key/lock type thing but didn't have the time to learn


    There's lots of things in dromed I still don't know

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