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Thread: Baldur's Gate 3 by Larian Studios

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Location: free koki

    Baldur's Gate 3 by Larian Studios

    While not officially confirmed by Larian, it very much looks like they've been tapped by WotC to do a Baldur's Gate 3. If you go to https://larian.com/ you'll find it's been replaced by a single teaser image of a III logo and, naturally, this prompted people to go digging around in the backend. What they found is lines referencing "Baldur's Gate" and "Wizard's of the Coast" in the header of the video file as you can see in this reddit thread, though this was a couple of days ago and those bits have since been replaced and the logo's gotten a pair of tentacles slapped onto it.

    Anyway, pretty standard marketing tricks by now, so an official announcement should be coming soon. You could argue that maybe it's Divinity: Original Sin 3 and Larian are just trolling, but it seems like a pretty stupid idea to risk irritating both WotC and your fans in one fell swoop.

    Personally, I'm on the fence about this. I've been pining for a proper new Forgotten Realms CRPG by an experienced developer for a while now, but my previous experience with Larian left me lukewarm. I definitely liked some of their ideas, but between the humorous writing and the Turn-Based combat I drifted away from D:OS after a couple of hours. Obviously, though, some will love the prospect of a TB D&D game, and given console considerations and prior art, it's likely to be just that. My other concern is the manner in which this will tie in to WotC's new campaign, Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus, which appears to be Baldur's Gate in name only and otherwise take place almost completely in the first layer of hell. Hope it's not the same for the videogame, forty hours of blasted landscapes and the Blood War don't seem too appealing to me.

    On the bright side, I seem to recall D:OS 2 also came with a very powerful campaign editor. If this new BG3 ships with an editor to match the features and accessibility of the NWN Toolset back in the day, we might have plenty of good community modules to look forward to.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    It's kind of weird to me even using the name "Baldur's Gate" for a new game unless it's either related to the Bhaalspawn trilogy in some way or actually, you know, includes Baldur's Gate in it somewhere.

  3. #3
    Meh.

    I'm personally of the opinion that the current state of the US game industry isn't capable of creating a truly great, epic game like the original Baldur's Gate. It's worth noting that a lot of the most recent games that fit that bill are from foreign studios.

    Count me skeptical until proven otherwise.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Larian are Belgian.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Location: free koki
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Moyer View Post
    It's kind of weird to me even using the name "Baldur's Gate" for a new game unless it's either related to the Bhaalspawn trilogy in some way or actually, you know, includes Baldur's Gate in it somewhere.
    I hope they don't dig up the Bhaalspawn plot for anything more than nostalgia-baiting references, between Throne of Bhaal and WotC's Murder in Baldur's Gate canon it's already got two conclusions to pick from.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    I wish they'd make the final 3rd game in the Baldurs Gate - Dark Alliance games. Those games were excellent. Yes I know they are nothing like the PC games, but they don't need to. Just annoying as we got 2 out the 3 planned games, so the story never got fully done.

    Due to the success of the 2 games, the engine used went on to be used in heap of other action RPGs. Some good, some not so much.

    I used to wish all the time for a sequel to Shadowrun on the SNES, and then that actually happened (unbelievably ). So anythings possible.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    Larian are Belgian.
    They are?

    Fantastic. That helps a bit. I'm still not sure how you make a named sequel because the expansion pack was very decisive in ending the story arc.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland


    Larian confirmed.

  9. #9
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: flapping in the wind
    Well that's a more graphic look into the Illithid life cycle than necessary, but I'm definitely interested in a new Baldur's Gate. My biggest concern is that if it's in the style of Original Sin in the same engine we're probably not getting the sort of scale that I'd expect from BG. I like D:OS 2 well enough (1 not so much), but the games feel like you're pottering around in a pretty cramped little playground.

  11. #11
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    They are?

    Fantastic. That helps a bit. I'm still not sure how you make a named sequel because the expansion pack was very decisive in ending the story arc.
    It's an all new story.
    https://www.pcgamer.com/au/baldurs-g...d-5th-edition/
    Sequels don't have to be direct story continuations.

    Remember that that Baldur's Gate is also the name of an in lore city/location too.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Just as with the other series I mentioned. Same city, completely different story. It doesn't need to follow the story of the past games.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Location: free koki
    Quote Originally Posted by EvaUnit02 View Post
    https://www.pcgamer.com/au/baldurs-g...d-5th-edition/

    There are some things on the chopping block, however. It's an interpretation of D&D, specifically 5th Edition, because porting the core rules, which Larian tried to do, doesn't work. Or it works, Vincke clarifies, but it's no fun at all. One of the culprits is missing when you're trying to hit an enemy, and while the combat system has yet to be revealed, you can at least look forward to being able to smack people more consistently.

    "You miss a lot in D&Dif the dice are bad, you miss," he says. "That doesn't work well in a videogame. If I do that, you're going to review it and say it's shit. Our approach has been implementing it as pure as we can, and then just seeing what works and what doesn't. Stuff that doesn't work, we start adapting until it does."
    Uh oh...

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia


    Oh no. That's just stupid. Did he not look up how many great games used the D&D rule set?

  15. #15
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    Quote Originally Posted by Ostriig View Post
    Uh oh...
    To be fair, the most annoying part of the CRPG D&D experience is watching a bunch of characters trading air every 0.5 seconds. I don't think Larian quite have the design chops to make an elegant solution to this, but something like minimal damage on a failed roll could work.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    I'm wondering if the game will be Real-time with Pause, like the first two.


    Overall, not sure what I think of this. I did play Baldur's Gate back in the day, but I'm not particularly invested in it (I also never played the sequel), and I'm also still wary of Larian after the armour system that I hated so much in DOS2.

    There's also the fact that they're planning to launch on Stadia, which just rings all kind of alarm bells.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    I loved Baldur's Gate 2 at the time, but there's nothing specific to Baldur's Gate that I feel needs to be revisited. The setting is pretty much generic fantasy and the story of the characters has been completed. Which doesn't mean that this couldn't be a good game, but if it is it isn't because it's specifically the third big Baldur's Gate game.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    I'm hardly a fan of to-hit rolls and made a big deal out of not having them in Glade Raid, but Glade Raid isn't D&D. Taking them out of a D&D game is... Missing the point.

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Location: free koki
    If visuals are the problem, a "miss" can be shown as a dodge, parry, flat strike and so on, like NWN tried. But the hit roll is a core mechanic in D&D and carries well into a party-based CRPG where misses can average out. Sawyer threw a dozen babies out with the bathwater for PoE's ruleset, but he didn't deprecate missing.

    I dunno, the only mechanical details we have so far is that it will use an "adaptation" of D&D 5E and that it will be "party-based", could play like anything from the Gold Box to KoTOR. Or hell, Mass Effect if they push far enough.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    There's also the fact that they're planning to launch on Stadia, which just rings all kind of alarm bells.
    I'm with you. Store-wise they also promised GOG and Steam, but we'll have to see what Stadia support amounts to in the end.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Nothing wrong with hit rolls, the problem is making them truly random. Cheating with the randomness a bit to disallow extreme outliers (like missing 3 times in a row with a 95% chance) makes the system completely workable without it feeling unfair.

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    I can't say I ever had a problem with the to-hit roll stuff in any isometric RPG I've played. I wasn't a huge fan of it in an action game like Morrowind, but in a more tactics/strategy oriented game it seems like a weird thing to exclude.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Ah yes, as much as I loved Morrowind, cliff racers and whiffing attacks was not the fondest experience:



    Disclaimer: this is a joke video that pits a low character with invincibility against a high level mob, though it is not entirely inaccurate either for the early vanilla game.

    I do remember being similarly irritated about the high miss rate in Baldur's Gate, however. Combined with how fragile low level characters were, it made the combat kind of a crapshoot. Maybe it was because RTwP made BG also more of an action game.

  23. #23
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    Quote Originally Posted by Ostriig View Post
    If visuals are the problem, a "miss" can be shown as a dodge, parry, flat strike and so on, like NWN tried. But the hit roll is a core mechanic in D&D and carries well into a party-based CRPG where misses can average out. Sawyer threw a dozen babies out with the bathwater for PoE's ruleset, but he didn't deprecate missing.
    It's the visuals mostly, assuming a RtwP framework. It's just awkward pantomine fisticuffs - admittedly, we've already lived with that for decades since BG1, so YMMV. I'd give you a clever reply about PoE making things more interesting, but I can't for the life of anything remember what exactly differentiated its combat system apart from that it was... unwieldy. Interesting subversion through class types though.

    I dunno, the only mechanical details we have so far is that it will use an "adaptation" of D&D 5E and that it will be "party-based", could play like anything from the Gold Box to KoTOR. Or hell, Mass Effect if they push far enough.
    If there's one thing that didn't work for KoTOR and ME1, it was the turn-based combat mechanics grafted onto an ostensibly first third person real-time game. Considering Larian's almost certainly going oldschool isometric with this, I'd rather they just stick to keeping it turn-based.
    Last edited by Sulphur; 7th Jun 2019 at 15:07. Reason: whoops

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Location: free koki
    You might be thinking of PoE's Graze and Penetration. I found Obisidan's ruleset to be a bit overengineered for my taste, unwiedly like you say. It had some interesting ideas but I'd rather go back to any of the D&D editions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    Nothing wrong with hit rolls, the problem is making them truly random. Cheating with the randomness a bit to disallow extreme outliers (like missing 3 times in a row with a 95% chance) makes the system completely workable without it feeling unfair.
    In D&D terms 95% hit chance translates to only being able to miss with a 1 on your d20, and getting three critical misses in a row would definitely be called uncommon. Then the impact is further diluted in a party-based CRPG where you have several characters to mind, the only D&D game where I've found missing to be trully infuriating is NWN, where one low-level character with 1 APR means you sit there like a bellend through each goblin spawn. Rather, I think Swen's describing something else, like when you just need a 15 on the die to hit but you keep rolling under that. Could be frustrating, but it comes down to character build and game balance.

    That said, I have no problem with allowing the player to cheat those numbers a bit as a difficulty setting, e.g. BG gives you a +6 to all rolls on Easy, Pathfinder Kingmaker lets you reduce enemy AC, or what you suggest to bump outliers. I played BG on Easy first time around, no big deal. But that interview quote gave me the impression they're looking at a more fundamental change to attack rolls. I suppose we can only wait and see.

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    The thing is, every unlikely outcome will happen to someone if you have enough players making enough rolls. That's why you want some kind of cheating behind the scenes to eliminate those unlikely cases.

    I have this whole thing somewhat fresh in my mind since I was doing some research into it a few weeks ago for gamedev reasons. There are a lot of randomisation systems that you can use to preserve the variation of random die rolls while keeping the frustrating aspects out.

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