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Thread: Arkane's Deathloop

  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchic Fox View Post
    Deathloop belongs to Arkane belongs to Zenimax belongs to Microsoft, so there's no shortage of money.
    That seems like a strikingly naive outlook.

    Sure, Microsoft is not lacking money. But they also have a lot of divisions and a plethora of projects going on at the same time.

  2. #77
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Yes AF, I know a few people from Arkane, hence I know how hard they are all working on this.
    I don't even work in the games industry and am not an Arkane fanboy (I still need to play through Dishonoured at some point!), so generally have no skin in the game, other than what I have heard about how full on a project it is (i.e. it's not a spin-off of anything).

    Calm down seriously - you're all over the place with the antagonism - what gives?

  3. #78
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    I still think the trailers are doing a dreadful job of communicating why anyone would want to play this. Or maybe they're doing an excellent job of depicting a game that I'd have no interest in. Being forced to play the same levels over and over doesn't sound like a fun time, yet they've structured the entire game around it.

    What this feels more like is a multiplayer game. In fact it's hiding right there in the title: Deathloop -> Deathmatch. With the AI or human-controlled hunter roaming around the levels, it's literally a deathmatch game. Running around killing each other in the same maps again and again. So that's another thing I have no interest in.

    Then there's the conceit that the only way to win is to figure out some optimized path through the entire game. This brings to mind visions of having to take notes and/or remember lots and lots of details, and dealing with combinatorial explosion, and tons of trial and error, and possibly having to redo hours of gameplay because you didn't do just the right optimal thing earlier. All of this sounds like anti-fun.

    And if it really is a huge elaborate puzzle box of a game, does that mean that once you've "solved" it by figuring out the critical path, there won't be much in the way of replay value?

    So far the only thing I'm liking about this game is the aesthetic, and the powers and gunplay. If those were grafted into a traditional linear narrative game (more like, say, Dishonored), I'd actually feel enthusiastic about it. As is, all I'm expecting is some unholy mashup of Team Fortress 2 and E.Y.E.: Divine Cybermancy.

  4. #79
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Some of the things you're saying sound in no small part like Prey: Moonfall - which I've not played much myself, but I've heard very good things about it. Though it's also a format that, at least on paper, puts me off somewhat, for some of the reasons you've mentioned, ZylonBane.

  5. #80
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    ZylonBane hit the nail on the head. Those comments explain my lack of enthusiasm for this game.

    It's expected that Deathloop will be like Mooncrash on a larger scale. If so, why is it taking as long as any other AAA game? I thought the whole point of AAA studios doing rouge-likes was to shrink development by reusing assets over and over.

  6. #81
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    How does that make sense, heywood? Mooncrash was built on Prey; Deathloop is its own thing with its own assets.

  7. #82
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    What I mean is that Deathloop should take less effort than their previous AAA titles, not less effort than Mooncrash.

  8. #83
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane View Post
    And if it really is a huge elaborate puzzle box of a game, does that mean that once you've "solved" it by figuring out the critical path, there won't be much in the way of replay value?
    Didn't they say something about the game having random elements too? Not to argue your point though, I feel the same way. Though the main reason I'm not really interested in this because it looks more of an action game. I liked Dishonored because it was a stealth game, and played Prey like that too, when I could.

  9. #84
    If you check out the latest gameplay video, there's a fair amount of stealth in there. It actually looks like the player is given a lot of latitude as far as what strategy they use, very similar to Dishonored.

    I'm definitely interested in checking this out, admittedly in some part just because it's Arkane.

    Edit: Just noticed, it's out exactly 2 months from today.

  10. #85
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Maupertuis
    I'm not trapped in here with you. Y'all're trapped in here with me.
    Last edited by Anarchic Fox; 14th Jul 2021 at 21:22.

  11. #86
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Location: Los Santos
    Looks like they spared no expense to solve the quick-save/quick-load scumming of immersive sims.

    Now you gotta live with the consequences of your choices.

    Let's see if it's a legit AAA content-wise, so far it does look like it's an I-sim (having your choice of action or stealth) without the save-scumming.

    The damn Denuvo tho...

  12. #87
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane View Post
    And if it really is a huge elaborate puzzle box of a game, does that mean that once you've "solved" it by figuring out the critical path, there won't be much in the way of replay value?
    Maybe refining your path for a better final score will be the replay value? Mooncrash didn't have leaderboards, did it? But Hitman did, and I'm kinda expecting this to have them as well, because why not?

    Anyway, I couldn't really get into Mooncrash, or Hitman, so I'm not especially hyped for this. I did like Teardown tho, which is also kinda in the same "open world sandbox where you plan and perfect a path" genre, so maybe Arkane will manage to turn this into something I'd enjoy? Eh, we'll see.

  13. #88
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    It's probably a bit worrying when we - who should be the core fans for a game like this - mostly seem very sceptical about it.

  14. #89
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Maupertuis
    Well, that's what happens when Bethesda starts pulling the strings. Remember Rage?

  15. #90
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by Jashin View Post
    Looks like they spared no expense to solve the quick-save/quick-load scumming of immersive sims.
    Uh, where have they said that this won't support quicksave/quickload?

    Also, there was nothing to "solve". Functional adults are perfectly capable of not abusing quicksave to ruin their fun.

  16. #91
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    It's probably a bit worrying when we - who should be the core fans for a game like this - mostly seem very sceptical about it.
    Immersive sim hardcore fans aren't the target audience for this game, mainstream console guys are. Dishonoured 2 and Prey bombed hard, forcing Arkane to have to pivot their design directions (hence making a pseudo-rogue-like shooter and a L4D-style co-op game), else risk being axed by Zenimax brass. They will probably not make an immersive sim again (or for at least the foreseeable future. The MS purchase of Zenimax might change things.).

  17. #92
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane View Post
    Uh, where have they said that this won't support quicksave/quickload?

    Also, there was nothing to "solve". Functional adults are perfectly capable of not abusing quicksave to ruin their fun.
    Having access to quicksave and quickload, as well as hard saves is a must to have long lasting fun with a game like this.

    IMO forcing iron man mode on people is creating a problem, not a solution.

    Hopefully the game wont do that, otherwise its just one more thing that will help the game bomb harder than their previous releases.

  18. #93
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchic Fox View Post
    Well, that's what happens when Bethesda starts pulling the strings. Remember Rage?
    Remember Dishonored and Prey? Both of which were funded by Zenimax?

  19. #94
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    Quote Originally Posted by EvaUnit02 View Post
    Dishonoured 2 and Prey bombed hard.
    Name those games:



    They came out the same year. One was the most successful single player AAA PC game released in ages, the other "bombed hard".

  20. #95
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Location: Los Santos
    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane View Post
    Uh, where have they said that this won't support quicksave/quickload?

    Also, there was nothing to "solve". Functional adults are perfectly capable of not abusing quicksave to ruin their fun.
    It's curious how you can't intuit the fact that a game with a rougelite die/repeat function is not gonna have a save anywhere feature.

    Sure, code in a quick save to defeat the whole point of the game. That makes sense!

  21. #96
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Moyer View Post
    One was the most successful single player AAA PC game released in ages, the other "bombed hard".
    I don't think those are mutually exclusive terms these days. Both pretty dismal numbers.

  22. #97
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Wait, the Doom reboot peaked at only 31k concurrent players? Even Mankind Divided had 52k.

  23. #98
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    As far as I can tell, the only singleplayer Zenimax games on Steam with larger player bases than Dishonored 2 are Skyrim, Fallout 4, Doom Eternal, Doom, and Prey (which is roughly even). Dishonored has slightly fewer current and peak users. Most of their other games are lucky to have half DH2's userbase. That's why I don't buy this whole thing where it ate shit, or where they took Arkane off of it to work on a series (Wolfenstein) that has a smaller player base. I think the real story is that Arkane probably didn't want to do Dishonored 2 (interviews with Raph and Harvey after DH1 support this) but the first game was so successful that they were asked to.

    As far as I can tell the entire "Dishonored 2 was a failure" narrative came from a pile of websites copy/pasting the same news article about how it sold fewer physical copies than the first game at a time that no one was buying physical copies of games.

  24. #99
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    The profitability of the game depends on when the sales happened though. They make the most money in the initial wave of sales at full price. The fact that D2 has a strong user base 5 years later doesn't really help their bottom line.

  25. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    The profitability of the game depends on when the sales happened though. They make the most money in the initial wave of sales at full price. The fact that D2 has a strong user base 5 years later doesn't really help their bottom line.
    And I have trouble believing anyone saying they know for sure one way or the other unless they're working for Arkane, Bethseda or Valve in a position that lets them see actual sales data.

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