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Thread: Arkane's Deathloop

  1. #126
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    @heywood
    While I've not really followed the big releases in 2020 and 2021 apart from the occasional game, I've not really had the impression that hardware requirements have become all that much steeper - unless you want to use raytracing and similar features, but these are not compulsory. Other than that, my impression has been that the hardware requirement spiral has been slowing down over the last half-dozen years, especially compared to 10-15 years ago.

  2. #127
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    Cyberpunk 2077 was the first to catch me by surprise this year with its steep requirements, now Deathloop. I did upgrade from a GTX 1060 to a 5700 XT last year at the beginning of the pandemic before prices went up. I didn't really need to, but wanted to take advantage of the temporarily reasonable prices when the crypto markets were down. It's a good thing I did, because CP2077 doesn't run that great on my 5700 XT. If I had stuck with the GTX 1060 I'd be feeling screwed right now.

    I guess I don't understand why some games have gotten so GPU hungry when aside from ray tracing, today's graphics don't really look appreciably better to me than 2015. Even ray tracing isn't all that.

  3. #128
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    It especially doesn't make sense for a stylised game like this which isn't trying to be ultra-realistic.

  4. #129
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    It especially doesn't make sense when it's been impossible to buy a GPU for 2 years and wasn't much easier for like 2-3 years before that. I don't understand who studios are releasing games for right now.
    Last edited by Jason Moyer; 17th Sep 2021 at 02:19.

  5. #130
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Location: Los Santos
    The trick to upgrading is to buy a prebuild.

    I'd likely be playing Deathloop now if my prebuild didn't come with a defective gpu though. Bad luck of the draw.

  6. #131
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    You're really selling us on those prebuilds, there.

  7. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Moyer View Post
    It especially doesn't make sense when it's been impossible to buy a GPU for 2 years and wasn't much easier for like 2-3 years before that. I don't understand who studios are releasing games for right now.
    Because the alternative is likely permanently shutting down the studio. Arkane almost certainly could not afford to wait until adoption rates of the targeted minimum system (currently 5 year old tech) were "good enough".

    Also, spending on games is up by a lot in 2021 compared to 2020, which in turn saw a lot more money spent on games than 2019. While GPUs have been less accessible, COVID has kept people at home and active on their PCs a lot more. Not trying to capitalize on this increased spending would just be silly, even if the devs overshot the adoption rate of the targeted minimum system.

    As far as prebuilt systems go, I got mine around Easter this year, upgrading my GPU from a GTX 970 to a RTX 3060 along with a lot of other upgrades like getting a m.2 SSD vs my old 5400 RPM HDD. The only issue I've had so far was the main fan being improperly installed (it sounded like a jet engine when powered on), so I got the store to fix that on the first day.

  8. #133
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    While people who have newer hardware are fewer in number, you should also take into account that they have on average more disposable income as well and therefore might be more likely to buy your new shiny game at full price, whereas the people who lag behind with their hardware are more likely to buy it some years later at a big discount.

  9. #134
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Making that marketing deal with PlayStation seems to have really paid off. This probably the most advertising that I've ever seen for an Arkane game. Dishonored 2 and Prey were pushed out by Bethesda with so little fanfare. The climate game is launched in (early new gen drought, new major big publisher game competition of weeks) was so right.

  10. #135
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    Quote Originally Posted by WingedKagouti View Post
    Because the alternative is likely permanently shutting down the studio. Arkane almost certainly could not afford to wait until adoption rates of the targeted minimum system (currently 5 year old tech) were "good enough".
    The question is why is the minimum target a GTX 1060 at 1080p, 30 Hz on low settings?
    Why does this game need more GPU power than Dishonored 2?

  11. #136
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Probably the same answer as to why you can play the Doom reboot on a potato: optimisation.

  12. #137
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    The question is why is the minimum target a GTX 1060 at 1080p, 30 Hz on low settings?
    Why does this game need more GPU power than Dishonored 2?
    The game's base platform is the current gen consoles:- i.e. PS5 (later on, Xbox Series). When games start getting built for the newest gen of consoles as their lowest common denominator, OF COURSE PC minimum requirements are going to go up.

    Dishonoured 2 was ported to PC from LAST GEN CONSOLES, i.e. PS4 and Xbox One.

    Obviously old hardware will eventually cease to be relevant for new release software. Don't be like those clowns on the Steam forums who cry that New Release Game X won't boot on some ancient CPU from well over a decade ago, lacking in support for recent instruction sets (eg Core 2 Quad was a common one).
    Last edited by EvaUnit02; 17th Sep 2021 at 17:48.

  13. #138
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    That doesn't answer the question.

    What do you get graphically from Deathloop that you don't get from Dishonored 2 or other PS4 and XBox One games?

    And is the graphical improvement important enough to justify releasing a game that only works on PS5 and high end PC rigs? And maybe XBox Series X in a year? PS5s are still constantly out of stock almost a year after release, and video card prices & availability still haven't recovered from the last mining boom.
    Last edited by heywood; 17th Sep 2021 at 18:29.

  14. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    That doesn't answer the question.

    What do you get graphically from Deathloop that you don't get from Dishonored 2 or other PS4 and XBox One games?

    And is the graphical improvement important enough to justify releasing a game that only works on PS5 and high end PC rigs? And maybe XBox Series X in a year? PS5s are still constantly out of stock almost a year after release, and video card prices & availability still haven't recovered from the last mining boom.
    The devs likely expected the console would suffer 3-4 months of scarcity post-launch like the PS4 and then be readily available to everyone as production ramped up. They certainly didn't plan for their game to be hard to access due to various bottlenecks in CPU & GPU production and a global pandemic butting heads for over a year.

    It's basically a Force Majeure situation.

  15. #140
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    “… a game that only runs on high-end PC rigs…” Is that the case, though? I’ve seen video of this at lower settings running on a 1060, which isn’t exactly what I’d call a high-end rig - and you know what? It ran well and looked good. Not great, but more than adequate. Yes, there are stuttering problems, but this is by no means a case of a game running like absolute shit.

  16. #141
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    I'm curious to see if Arkane ever releases statistics on what percent of players disable Julianna invasions. Seems like they'd be more annoying than anything.

  17. #142
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    They're pretty much like invasions in Souls games. I like em! They make you go "oh shit!", drop what you're doing and scramble to find a good defensive spot. I've whupped Julianna's butt every time she's shown up tho. Actually, I feel like the game really is too easy. Both the shooting and the stealth. I'm no pro-gamer or anything, but immsims I usually play on higher difficulty settings, and the absence of difficulty options in this really isn't doing it any favors.

    Overall tho, I'm enjoying it a lot. My biggest concern was the permadeath system, but unlike most permadeath games, here you're constantly making progress, either in improving gear/powers, or learning some piece of info that'll come in handy later on. In my most recent loop I learned of a way to kill 2 of the visionaries at once. I feel like I'm forming a plan and getting jacked for an epic mission.

  18. #143
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Location: Los Santos
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    You're really selling us on those prebuilds, there.
    Whaa? You know gpu can be defective whether in a box or in a prebuild, right?

  19. #144
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    You'd assume prebuilt computers get tested whether they actually work, though. And, compared to building a computer yourself with components straight out of the box, there are more things that can go wrong, like shoddy cabling that comes loose in transport and skimping on some components to make more profit.

  20. #145
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Location: Los Santos
    You'd assume that, in fact I assumed that. However that's not how prebuilds are built anymore. OS is installed before main assembly and they never run it.

    For possible loose cables, do an eye test and tighten. Small troubleshoot is something you'd do regardless if you buy whole or build your own.

    As for "skimping on components," you can look up all components on spec and add up the retail yourself and compare. If the difference is big then avoid that specific build like your local ripoff mechanic. The trick is to find the right build, they're not all equal in value.
    Last edited by Jashin; 19th Sep 2021 at 18:46.

  21. #146
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    That doesn't answer the question.
    Multi-platform AAA development with consoles as the lowest common denominator has been the standard since what, 2006 at least? (Outside of games for Nintendo platforms and specific niche genres that are hard sells on everything but PC like strategy, the days of AAA 3rd party games targeting only PC or consoles are mostly over.) As a result there is going to be a leap in minimum requirements for PC ports every time a new generation of consoles is released. Some developers/publishers are going to make their games cross-generation (so minimum PC reqs will remain lax), other are going to make games strictly for the new gen. Arkane/Bethesda clearly chose the latter.

    Stop whinging like a child, take a snort of reality and learn to deal with it. Buy a fucking new PC or a PS5 if you have to.

  22. #147
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    I'm going through my backlog of older games while I wait for the GPU drought to end.
    Far Cry 4 on ultra settings is pretty decent.

  23. #148
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Jashin View Post
    You'd assume that, in fact I assumed that. However that's not how prebuilds are built anymore. OS is installed before main assembly and they never run it.

    For possible loose cables, do an eye test and tighten. Small troubleshoot is something you'd do regardless if you buy whole or build your own.

    As for "skimping on components," you can look up all components on spec and add up the retail yourself and compare. If the difference is big then avoid that specific build like your local ripoff mechanic. The trick is to find the right build, they're not all equal in value.
    Well, if you're going to spend all that time to the extent of looking up each component individually and checking all the cabling, etc, you might as well use this time to build a computer yourself. If it wasn't for the current GPU price hike, that is.

    Also, in my experience with prebuilt computers, being able to even look up all the components is a rarity. Often the only things advertised are the CPU and the GPU and there's no mention of the SSD brand or memory speed or how many sticks there are, no mention at all of the power supply, and even something as important as the motherboard can be a complete unknown. And while sometimes you can look up the case based on the picture if you really know your PC cases, even then you sometimes can't see where all the fans are and whether the airflow actually makes any sense or whether it's all just for show.

    Bottom of the line, a systems integrator has different priorities than a customer -- their goal isn't to build the best system for the cheapest price, but to make a profit, which leads to things like poorly matched components and a plethora of other issues that the customer often isn't even aware of. For example, many people wouldn't know to check whether the XMP profile is enabled and the RAM actually runs at advertised speeds.
    Last edited by Starker; 20th Sep 2021 at 16:29.

  24. #149
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Location: Los Santos
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Well, if you're going to spend all that time to the extent of looking up each component individually and checking all the cabling, etc, you might as well use this time to build a computer yourself. If it wasn't for the current GPU price hike, that is.

    Also, in my experience with prebuilt computers, being able to even look up all the components is a rarity. Often the only things advertised are the CPU and the GPU and there's no mention of the SSD brand or memory speed or how many sticks there are, no mention at all of the power supply, and even something as important as the motherboard can be a complete unknown. And while sometimes you can look up the case based on the picture if you really know your PC cases, even then you sometimes can't see where all the fans are and whether the airflow actually makes any sense or whether it's all just for show.
    Looking up parts takes a long time? lol okay boomer.

  25. #150
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    The point is that the time you spend on looking up parts you can just as well spend on looking up components for building it yourself, not that "it takes a long time".

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