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Thread: New T2 Mission : "Les Paolis" updated to V. 1.1 (13-07-2019)

  1. #51
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by Supremcee View Post
    As I said, I appreciate all authors work. I just wanted to say, that there are some issues that repeat with different missions from you. Those issues where pointed out by some people and you seem to repeat these issues. It's not about your rules or creativity, it's technical issues that can be fixed or at least improved. People don't criticize this to harm you, they want you to improve and help you that way

    Anyways, wish you a good start with the new job and keep on creating missions
    If i release a mission despite some of the technical issues is because i know it's practically accessible and enjoyable. Nevertheless im updating this version in a way to make the loot goal requirements to be more accessible in all difficult levels. As for the sound problem i can't fix it. If there's anyone volunteer to fix it then his/her help is most welcomed.

    Thank you let's hope this new Job will work fine for me...

  2. #52
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2018
    I'm lacking 2,000 in loot. Any hints?

    Also is the church accessable in mission 1?

  3. #53
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by xx Bla xx View Post
    I'm lacking 2,000 in loot. Any hints?

    Also is the church accessable in mission 1?
    No, the church is only available in the second mission. Next updated version it will be demanded less 1000 loot. so consider youre missing 1000 loot.

    hints in the readme file tell to look out for decorative wooden panels, they can be roped and that gives you access to multiple places. Also check every single object, some of them look like ordinary items.

  4. #54
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2018
    I knew about the decorative wooden panels, but still miss loot. It's the only objective I have to do. Is there anything special happen when I come back to the castle? Do I miss something? If not, I would just skip to mission two. The most anoying thing for me in fms is loothunt.

  5. #55
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by xx Bla xx View Post
    I knew about the decorative wooden panels, but still miss loot. It's the only objective I have to do. Is there anything special happen when I come back to the castle? Do I miss something? If not, I would just skip to mission two. The most anoying thing for me in fms is loothunt.
    the final goal is to return to your room, don't know what to say about the loot, if youre not much of a loot hunter just skip the mission, otherwise if you want to finish the loot goal i suggest you to explore well the buildings, see what roofs can be roped. interact with everything.

  6. #56
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2011
    Is Coco in the castle with banners with the R?

    There are two wodden beams but from there i cannot jump to the balustrade

  7. #57
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by radogoal View Post
    Is Coco in the castle with banners with the R?

    There are two wodden beams but from there i cannot jump to the balustrade
    Yes, the R is from Renaud Cocco. do you have new mantle enable?

  8. #58
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    great job cardia,on both mission's but a map or at least a list of key building's would have helped a lot,i would say the first map was my fav out of the two

  9. #59
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by downwinder View Post
    great job cardia,on both mission's but a map or at least a list of key building's would have helped a lot,i would say the first map was my fav out of the two
    Im glad you have enjoyed

  10. #60
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    I beat Mission 1. It took me 5 hours 6 min 56 s. Got barely enough loot: 14257 and 5 secrets. First impression was positive. I only used a hint about helmet location. When I found out what's the zone it is, my first thought was: "It must be in this most annoying house to get" and I was correct.

    I didn't like servants objective. Mainly because they are talking at the beginning of the mission and only once. So just like I thought, after few hours of playing, I have completely forgot what have they requested. It would be really nice to put their request into objectives or let them give you request scrolls.

    Another thing I didn't like is sky. At first I thought it's because I'm playing on 1.25 and this mission requires 1.27. But then I checked screenshots and it was the same with my game. There is way too many stars on this sky, that's why all the time I thought sky is broken.

    And of course loot objective. It's tight, but this is standard in yours missions. I'm actually surprised that I managed to complete this objective on my own. But it's not just tight Expert requirement. Differences between difficulties are very small, so even Normal difficulty has really tough to get loot objective. I would suggest to really lower it to: 12000 on Expert, 9000 on Hard and 6000 on Normal. Why lower so much? Check next paragraph.

    Loot is everywhere. This encourage exploration. Unfortunately here, everywhere means really everywhere. You need to check every nook and cranny of this mission. You need to get to every balcony you see and scale every roof you see. And a lot of this stuff feels very unintended, but that's exactly where you put a reward. I found nest with frog egg and diamond on the roof. When climbing on the roof, I thought there will be nothing because I felt like I break this mission. I was wrong and to be honest, it felt bad for me. So many of the exploration is really annoying. Getting into house with helmet was mega annoying. I really wish there would be crates in this mission.

    But that's not all. Getting into hard to find places is one thing. But you need also to return from them in one piece. Finding way to descend from high place also felt like looking for unintended way to survive the fall. In the end I started to use unconscious bodies as a cushion.

    Still, I managed to beat this mission almost on my own. So I think I'm getting better in your missions. Even with these problems, I enjoyed this mission. I wonder how many problems I will have in Mission 2. And if the game will be possible to complete on Newdark 1.25.

  11. #61
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    I beat Mission 1. ... Getting into house with helmet was mega annoying. I really wish there would be crates in this mission.

    But that's not all. Getting into hard to find places is one thing. But you need also to return from them in one piece. Finding way to descend from high place also felt like looking for unintended way to survive the fall. In the end I started to use unconscious bodies as a cushion.

    ...
    I'm sitting at 10,590 loot myself in Mission 1.

    Is there an easy way to get into the house with the helmet? Clearly, from below doesn't work, and even when I'm standing on top of the window, having reached there from the roofs, I still can't seem to get in. (I'm assuming there's quite a bit of loot there, as well as the helmet that I don't need at normal difficulty.)

    My suggestion regarding the loot is: In addition to the 1000 cut to the requirements Cardia is planning with the next version of this campaign, it'd be really nice if Cardia or someone threw in a loot list (and a secret list, if the secrets hide a large portion of the loot) with the next version of the campaign. That would make clear the areas where you have lean forward to get the loot (or do other strange things to get the loot) as noted in the readme.

    BTW, I've found enough slow-fall potions in the high areas (at least at Normal difficulty) that I don't have to take falling damage if I don't want to (I currently have 5 in my inventory). Also, you can do jumps (for example, from the street area that leads to the house with the special-item painting) directly into canals, which also negates damage.

    - prjames
    Last edited by prjames; 30th Jun 2019 at 16:26.

  12. #62
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by prjames View Post
    Is there an easy way to get into the house with the helmet? Clearly, from below doesn't work, and even when I'm standing on top of the window, having reached there from the roofs, I still can't seem to get in. (I'm assuming there's quite a bit of loot there, as well as the helmet that I don't need at normal difficulty.
    You need to go to the place where you found diary of a murderer (Nationalist). Enter barracks, go to roof, jump onto black roof and drop on window on left. Now the hardest thing. Move as close as possible to entrance and get inside. It's super frustrating to do it.

  13. #63
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Galaer,

    Yes, I'm stuck at the same "super frustrating" point that you mentioned. Try to jump/push yourself from there, fall to the ground, repeat, many times...

    - prjames

  14. #64
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Galaer and prjames, that side jump is not that hard, or another solution to get inside that window : speed potion

  15. #65
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2005
    Location: Hitchin, Hertfordshire, UK
    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    You need to go to the place where you found diary of a murderer (Nationalist). Enter barracks, go to roof, jump onto black roof and drop on window on left. Now the hardest thing. Move as close as possible to entrance and get inside. It's super frustrating to do it.
    When you are standing on the top of the open window, you can also shoot a rope arrow into the inside edge of the window frame, then try to catch hold of it as you drop past it.

  16. #66
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Galaer and Marbien i didn't know it could be possible to enter the window with those two methods.

    Gaeler im glad you enjoy the first mission despite the things you didn't like. Loot goal is to be much lowered in the next update, as for the skyboxe i have tried with lesser stars and personally i didn't like it, the places die alot and feels like everything is more tight , with this skybox even though it's unrealistic i like the way how stars seem to shine as you move, also the areas of the city gain more dynamic and feels like the sky extends out more. what i less like about this skybox is some of the bright areas that are seen when you are at the top of some buildings. I have tried other night skyboxes but i found this was to be amazing for this city.

  17. #67
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Thanks, Cardia. Speed potion worked and it doesn't require going to the top of the window, either.

    - prjames

    Update: Useful way to find loot: My gameplay style is "everyone wakes up with a headache tonight". Now that everyone is snoozing away, it's finally time to turn on my lantern. Now I'm at 12227 loot, and not yet done searching.
    Last edited by prjames; 30th Jun 2019 at 21:56.

  18. #68
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by prjames View Post
    Thanks, Cardia. Speed potion worked and it doesn't require going to the top of the window, either.

    - prjames

    Update: Useful way to find loot: My gameplay style is "everyone wakes up with a headache tonight". Now that everyone is snoozing away, it's finally time to turn on my lantern. Now I'm at 12227 loot, and not yet done searching.
    Remember that if you are playing in "expert" and youre still missing 1000 loot you can skip the mission.

    For those who like to explore finding loot will be easier.

  19. #69
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2007
    Location: Sweden
    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    And of course loot objective. It's tight, but this is standard in yours missions. I'm actually surprised that I managed to complete this objective on my own. But it's not just tight Expert requirement. Differences between difficulties are very small, so even Normal difficulty has really tough to get loot objective. I would suggest to really lower it to: 12000 on Expert, 9000 on Hard and 6000 on Normal. Why lower so much? Check next paragraph.
    I agree on that loot objectives.

  20. #70
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: Argentina
    I'm surprised that after all these years no one has realized that these loot goals are made like this intentionally to make the missions artificially longer. People stop enjoying themselves when all they do is search every corner of the map only to meet the 98% loot goal, and forgetting why they're playing in the first place.

  21. #71
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkMax View Post
    I'm surprised that after all these years no one has realized that these loot goals are made like this intentionally to make the missions artificially longer. People stop enjoying themselves when all they do is search every corner of the map only to meet the 98% loot goal, and forgetting why they're playing in the first place.
    i have mentioned above that goal loot will be lowered in the next mission update, and no my intention is not to make the mission last longer, but to force players to search everything, to prevent them skipping some areas.

  22. #72
    Dttirin klist oft mur mttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    A reasonable loot goal would be

    5000/8000/10000

    13000/14000 is way too much. I found 5000 and jumped to the next mission.

  23. #73
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by Unna Oertdottir View Post
    A reasonable loot goal would be

    5000/8000/10000

    13000/14000 is way too much. I found 5000 and jumped to the next mission.
    next update will be less 2000 for "normal", less 1500 for "hard" and less 1000 for "expert" which means you need to find at least one secret and 30% of hidden loot in expert. It's not just run the places without a closer look from time to time.

  24. #74
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardia View Post
    i have mentioned above that goal loot will be lowered in the next mission update, and no my intention is not to make the mission last longer, but to force players to search everything, to prevent them skipping some areas.
    But exactly this forcing the player to look everywhere is what makes high loot goals so off-putting. Thief is all about freedom of approach, people can play it their own way, they can explore maps freely however they want. There should be no forcing in a Thief FM. This is why forced ghosting objectives should only be on harder difficulties, not on normal, for example. Making the loot goal over 90% of all available loot means that players who aren't that good at finding loot, or just missed a couple of non-obvious places, will get frustrated after they completed everything, explored everywhere, and still have 1000 missing loot they just can't find.

    It's not fun, it's frustrating.

    And when your level is well-designed, people will explore every corner of it without being forced to, even if they already reached the loot goal.

    And yes, forcing the player to go everywhere and preventing him from skipping a section is exactly what "making the mission last longer" means. Same effect: the player has to spend a longer time in the mission to complete it.

  25. #75
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by Unna Oertdottir View Post
    I found 5000 and jumped to the next mission.
    You lasted that long?

    Mind you I did spend a long time admiring the towns, they looked fabulous and I was really impressed with the build quality, texture and overall design, even if every building and town square was a bit on the boxy side. Cities and towns tend to grow organically over the years but these towns seemed rather as if they were planned by a centralised designer architect department which made the overall look a rather artificial, but a minor gripe bearing in mind the overall size and obvious love and attention you put into this campaign, so thank you for yet another exhausting loothunt.

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