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Thread: T2 FM - Compulsory Egress [20 July 2019]

  1. #51
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2001
    Location: Southern Tier NY, USA
    Angel loader don't show the mission at all. If I select show junk then it shows with a red circle saying the file is junk. I don't understand. I had to fight like hell to make Patriot work. I thought this Angel Loader was the latest and greatest. If anything its junk. I would never say someone's mission is junk though I may not like them all. Darkloader sees it and would load it though the author said not to try so I am not.

  2. #52
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Did you download the Taffers Paradise zip file? If so, please download one of the .7z files (Google Drive, Southquarter etc.). I have just tested that these work with AngelLoader. The .zip file on Taffers Paradise has to be manually extracted, because this archive was unfortunately repacked with the wrong folder structure.
    Last edited by DirkBogan; 2nd Aug 2019 at 05:41.

  3. #53
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Awesome mission, congrats to DirkBogan. A dream for anyone who likes to explore and scour for loot. Some of the building and interior designs were just wild, stuff I could never personally come up with. I'd say a good deal of influence from The Sword, while still being subtle and not getting overly weird or surreal. Great mission overall, anxious to check out your next one.

    Speaking of loot, I only came up with about 6600, so I'm guessing I missed some areas. Where is this area I read about with a bunch of masks? Also, there's a door just south of the Grand Old Hall, down one level, that's locked and I never found a way in. It's near a vent in the ground that has steam coming out of it. And I never found a key for the green grocer entrance that is marked with a plaque with the name "Gustal" on it. How do I get in there?

  4. #54
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Thanks for your comments, Brethren, and thanks again for hosting both the mission and the beta-testing forum.

    When designing the architecture and interiors, I really tried to avoid making 'Just Another Damn City Mission', considering how incredibly high the bar has been set by a dozen well-known authors. Personally, two important things that I think separate good or okay OMs/FMs from the all-time classics are asymmetry and non-90-degree angles, so I made a conscious effort to avoid having lots of square rooms or long rectangular hallways. Since there's lots to explore, I tried to make sure the interiors never got repetitive!

    6600 is a perfectly good score; it's in the ballpark of what some very experienced beta-testers got on their first playthrough! To answer your questions:

    Room with a bunch of masks: did you discover that some windows open? There is a window in the High Reeve's Office with a Lost City jar on the windowsill. That window opens to the outside of City Hall. From there, there is another tower to your west, with the same sort of window
    Doorway near steam vent: Did you find a way into the sewers? If not, you can access it from the Burrowing Burrick pub, a grate in the bushes south of the Bakery, or from the Navenvolk Public Works station. You can access the house in question via a latrine/drop toilet
    Gustal the Greengrocer's house: You can either jump from the Bakery sign to his window, or go through the grate with the pipe next to it near the stairs and the bushes. There isn't a key for that door; I probably should have added one inside the house!

    I hope that helps! I wanted to include lots of things for players who like jumping and mantling, while avoiding making a mission that was frustrating or boring for players who prefer a more authentic/classic Thief play-style. And thanks again for your kind words!
    Last edited by DirkBogan; 1st Aug 2019 at 06:02.

  5. #55
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkBogan View Post
    Personally, two important things that I think separate good or okay OMs/FMs from the all-time classics are asymmetry and non-90-degree angles,
    Also a good way to separate missions which will successfully optimise from missions with too many cells.

  6. #56
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by nicked View Post
    Also a good way to separate missions which will successfully optimise from missions with too many cells.
    To be honest, that was a big problem for me when I first started. I would get SplitPortalPolyhedronByPlane and remove_poly_edge errors pretty frequently. However, since discovering 'hilight_check_snap 1', which snaps all brushes to 1/16th angles as well as aligning to the grid, I've only had these errors maybe once or twice across hundreds of in-editor hours. That's the reason some of the windows in this mission are weirdly oriented -- it's either that, or a World Rep that refuses to render.

    To anybody who wants to start using DromEd, that would be my number one tip: ALWAYS gridsnap by rotation.

  7. #57
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    Location: West Seattle
    this mission is an absolute treat!
    I'm having trouble getting into the vault at city hall; I've been through the security office and high reeve's office (with the watcher) but found no keys for the portcullis door.

  8. #58
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMunkeepants View Post
    this mission is an absolute treat!
    I'm having trouble getting into the vault at city hall; I've been through the security office and high reeve's office (with the watcher) but found no keys for the portcullis door.
    Vault Key:the key should be on Captain Ricardo (tall soldier in purple), in the High Reeve's Office

  9. #59
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    Location: West Seattle
    after about 3 hours I think I've gone everywhere but only gotten roughly 8300/10,000 loot.
    such a densely packed city! I love FMs like this, with twisty alleys and multi-level traversal puzzles. I can only recall The Warrens right now, any others?
    I would have appreciated a secret counter, to get a better idea of what I had missed, but I also just had a tone of fun exploring
    one bug: the lamppost just outside City Hall servants' entrance is on, but doesn't have a pool of light under it.

  10. #60
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Oh no! I'm such an idiot. In the final beta, I added a transparent table object to that Streetlamp, inspired by A Night In Old Quarter, to redress the stock physics box that allows the player to walk under the lamp. I can't believe I didn't notice that it blocked the light Man, that was sloppy. Such a pity too, it looked so nice illuminating the blue paint over the industrial brick.

    As for the secret counter, Mat99 mentioned it during beta-testing. This was an intentional design omission. I wanted many secrets in the mission, but I'd prefer the player to think for themselves that they had found a secret, not be told so by an arbitrary counter. I often found in Thief 2 OMs that I would get a 'Found Secret' chime for things that felt like routine exploration to me. But of course, this is a matter of personal preference. I'm just not sure where I would have drawn the 'secret/not secret' line in such a convoluted FM!

  11. #61
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    Location: West Seattle
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkBogan View Post
    As for the secret counter... this was an intentional design omission.
    I figured as much; I like to use it as a gauge of how clever/probing I was, but 'difficulty of discovery' is subjective. I have no idea how comprehensively I really explored, and a secret counter usually gives me a clue at the end. Comparing to the OMs, the definition of 'hidden' has shifted to a much higher realm. Maybe in the future count whatever you/your betatesters felt was quite devious?

  12. #62
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    well i found dewdrop with a tip from db

    so i can confirm dewdrop is in the mission but in a out of bounce area and to get it,you need a item to be able to get it

    you can be proud of this fan mission

    but for the record i was the first to find him :P
    Last edited by downwinder; 4th Aug 2019 at 01:00.

  13. #63
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2012
    What a great mission DirkBogan, I played it in Multiplayer and it worked really really well for that. I think we ended up with about 6600 loot on expert.
    I liked how most windows could be opened.

    The atmosphere, especially with the perfect placed ambient sounds is probably the best part of this mission

  14. #64
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Thanks for your comments Niborius. I enjoyed Mystery of The Upper Quarter (although the Expert loot goal was very tough!). You have a very distinctive visual style, and I'm eager to see what Secrets of The Old City has to offer!

    You are very kind to say that the ambients are good; I liked my choice of ambients, but the actual sound design still has issues -- there were many gaps between doorways and thresholds before beta-testing, so ambients often didn't change between areas. Skacky and Squadafroin in particular insisted that I add transitional ambients between environmental ambients, to reduce how jarring some ambients were. If you look at the changelog.txt, there's lots of 'added ambientsound/ambienthacked' entries. All my testers gave extensive notes when they found places where I had forgotten or missed a transition, so if my ambient placement is good, most of it is because of my testers' hard work finding where I'd left gaps.

    I'm glad you enjoyed playing, and that it was fun as a multiplayer experience too!

  15. #65
    Member
    Registered: May 2010
    Location: Taffer's Inn
    Played this singleplayer first time and loved every second of it. (Missed quite a few loot though) Then i went ahead with multiplayer with a friend and it was an even more amazing experience

    If this is a taste of things to come then we're in for a ride. Congrats, DirkBogan.

  16. #66
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    Well, that's one way to finish the mission

    https://clips.twitch.tv/EasyGenerousEndiveDxAbomb

  17. #67
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by marbleman View Post
    Well, that's one way to finish the mission

    https://clips.twitch.tv/EasyGenerousEndiveDxAbomb
    And that is the EXACT reason I included so many SlowFall potions!

    You can actually slide down the edge of that hole without getting injured on Expert, although you occasionally take one shield of damage.

  18. #68
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    This was a fun one, and I quite liked the more Thief 1 style architecture.

    If I might make a suggestion, it would have been cool to see more readables getting into some of the weird things you come across while playing, though of course mystery is cool, too.

  19. #69
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Thanks for your comments Kerrle!

    Regarding the readables: I think this is a big divide for players. For me, it doesn't matter how well-written or compelling the story is (GaŽtane, Lady Rowena and Melan come immediately to mind as excellent writers), I think lengthy or numerous readables heavily detract from the flow of gameplay in Thief missions. My main guideline for the readables was to keep them efficient, fitting as much meaning into as few words as possible -- a guiding principle that many editors take with fiction.
    Initially, I wanted to make an FM with only environmental storytelling, a la Schlock's Shadow Play. Along with hints in the environment, I also wanted to leave a lot of things up to players' interpretation!

    Of course, your suggestion is perfectly welcome; I do not mean to sound dismissive! I'm just thankful you felt there wasn't enough of a 'good thing', rather than a mountain of badly written exposition!

    A side note: I may be wrong, but I'm sure I've read elsewhere that you play Thief with a controller/gamepad? If so, did you find any parts of the mission very frustrating to navigate? The mission has lots of precise jumps and mantling, and I know they can be a pain in the neck with analog sticks!

  20. #70
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    I play with a custom keyboard I built:
    https://imgur.com/gallery/F58P5gO

    Along with dual left and right handed mice (yes, I'm weird).

    But I did have Thief set up to play with a Steam controller, and I have played a few dozen hours of it that way on a couch. It's not bad at all, though still inferior to a good mouse and keyboard.

    For Thief, the Steam controller is basically a virtual trackball for mouselook and an analog stick so run/walk/creep can all be in one control. You also have gyro-based aiming for fine movement (like say when frobbing something small or aiming). It's way better than twin analog sticks, and I don't think there'd be any issues with your design.

  21. #71
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Wow! That setup is beautiful. It's unusual, but there's something about the symmetry of it that is really appealing.

  22. #72
    New Member
    Registered: May 2015
    Can someone please tell me
    spoiler:
    where is the key to jevrolt stonemason place?
    Last edited by dedaki; 7th Aug 2019 at 14:27.

  23. #73
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    @dedaki - If you're looking at the mason's door, in the building to the right there is a 2nd story window that's reachable. That should get you there.

  24. #74
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004

    darkloader error

    wont work on darkloader... why?

  25. #75
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    Because it's darkloader.

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