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Thread: Jeffrey Epstein, accused sex trafficker, dies by suicide

  1. #26
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    I spent a few minutes today listening to one woman talk about how impossible it was that he was able to kill himself as there was nothing in his cell that he could use. And then proceeded to recount how someone was able to kill himself by swallowing his sock. Did Epstein still have his socks, I wonder.

    I find the number of pundits 'pushing informed people' (my words) to say it was a conspiracy to murder or any other kind of conspiracy of neglect etc., intensely annoying. The US continues to be a bizarre country.

    My trump-free zone is failing.

  2. #27
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    It shouldn't matter which fucking party you adhere to. It's fishy as fuck regardless of where you sit because people from both parties were involved with him. What's even more disturbing is that the actual documents released so far seem to imply that a significant number of our political elites are pedophiles. The documents are almost certainly accurate because every accuser was able to independently describe his genitals accurately.
    I have no doubt that there are a lot of people on both sides the aisle sweating it out right now.

    But as far as anyone being involved in a conspiracy to murder the guy, I'm not jumping to conclusions. For the moment at least, the DOJ is treating Epstein's suicide less as a crime, more as a massive administrative fuck up. Someone didn't do their job, and it costs us a key witness in what looks to be a massive sex trafficking scandal. Heads are going to roll.

    And yes, Nickie, we're a weird bunch over here.

  3. #28
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2005
    Location: Not Kansas
    'Autopsy finds Jeffrey Epstein had several broken neck bones' and 'One of the breaks was to Epsteinís hyoid bone, an injury that experts told the Washington Post is more common in homicide victims'. So, again, suicide or murder? I'm getting the impression that Epstein was bipartisan and pimped for anybody who could afford his services, so would getting rid of Epstein constitute a 'just cause' for certain members of both parties to actually agree on something?

    https://nypost.com/2019/08/15/epstei...-bones-report/

  4. #29
    https://twitter.com/Timcast/status/1...4-page-30.html

    Quote Originally Posted by nickie View Post
    My trump-free zone is failing.
    I don't view this as a Trump issue either way. The Trumpists have just jumped on the opportunity to make jokes about there being yet another Clinton associate dying under unusual circumstances. Kind of like the joke that hedge fund managers need to know how to swim (which if anyone ever says that is a reference to Robert Maxwell's "drowning" death).

    He's a possible culprit but not as likely because the court documents claim Trump banned Epstein from Mar-A-Lago. There's numerous people out there who were at the Island and it later came out that Epstein's properties were all completely wired with hidden cameras, so it could be any combination of literally dozens/hundreds of people involved.

    One channel I every so often use as podcast-style listening covered this. Long show but this guy also concluded it's literally impossible, but brought up something he's discussed on previous shows that the prison system "taking care of" problematic inmates by means of them "committing suicide" is not unheard of.

    Last edited by Tony_Tarantula; 16th Aug 2019 at 13:02.

  5. #30
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    My comment was connected to something I'd posted elsewhere and not to do with Epstein. Sorry, I should have made that clear.

  6. #31
    They're no officially claiming it's a suicide.

    The laywers are disputing that claim: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...stigation.html


    New York Times showed off exactly why "journalism" is so infuriating when they claimed that people were claiming he was murdered "Without Evidence".


    Why add "Without Evidence"? They're deliberately and dishonestly conflating "Evidence" with "indisputable proof".

    Here's what is "evidence"

    • The guard on duty wasn't an actual guard
    • The cameras just conveniently malfunctioned at the time of his death
    • His roomate was transferred out immediately before he died
    • The checks on him were not done at the time he died
    • He had broken bones consistent with strangulation



    Among others. That's all "evidence" pointing in a certain direction. It's not "proof" but for New York times to claim there's "no evidence" is a flat out lie.

  7. #32
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Let's look at the "evidence", shall we:

    * The guard on duty wasn't an actual guard -- an incredibly common practice in prisons who lack guards, especially with the current administration's hiring freeze.
    * The cameras just conveniently malfunctioned at the time of his death -- for now, this is just an unsubstantiated rumour a conspiracy theorist started.
    * His roomate was transferred out immediately before he died -- not immediately prior and it's not necessarily evidence of homicide, especially without knowing the reasons for the transfer. In fact, being alone in his cell would make it far easier for Epstein to commit suicide.
    * The checks on him were not done at the time he died -- this could just as well be evidence for suicide. The guards were overworked and them falling asleep and not checking up on Epstein could have been precisely why he chose this time for suicide.
    * He had broken bones consistent with strangulation -- he had broken bones that are more often associated with strangulation, but do occasionally happen with suicide, particularly with older people. And an examination would take into account more things than that, like whether there were signs of resistance, and so on.

    This is what makes conspiracy theorists so unreliable. They see an unknown object in the sky and claim it's evidence for aliens existing, instead of taking into account far more likely explanations. Instead of looking at the evidence and drawing conclusions from that, they try to prove something they already believe, no matter how poorly supported it is. Instead of waiting for details to get a more complete picture, they immediately jump into building a narrative based on even the shoddiest of "evidence".

  8. #33
    SShock2.com
    Member

    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: The land of ever sideways rain
    And then Buzz Aldrin punches you in the face for mocking his greatest achievement.

  9. #34
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Which is then used as proof that he's in on the moon landing conspiracy, because if he actually did it, he'd be so much more chill, right? Only people with something to hide act like that.

    Like Starker said, it's easy to contort any evidence to fit whatever conclusion you desire.

  10. #35
    SShock2.com
    Member

    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: The land of ever sideways rain
    Two people can't keep a secret for five minutes. Can 300,000 for 50 years? Unlikely.

  11. #36
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Exactly. Let's take the one true conspiracy we've seen committed against the American people in our lifetimes: PRISM. How long was it in operation before someone blew the whole thing wide open? 5-6 years?

    ...and the legislation that allowed it to happen? Was it handled by power brokers wheeling and dealing in smoke filled back rooms, away from the prying eyes of the American public? Nope. We could all watch the Patriot Act and the Protect America Act pass through congress live on C-SPAN. Not even 24 hours later, multiple journalists from multiple papers were writing exposes about the carte blanche powers it granted the NSA. A few years later, Snowden shows up, and hands over documented evidence that the NSA was doing what everyone already said the NSA was gonna do.

  12. #37
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2016
    Knowing how absurdly mundane and disappointing reality often is, I'm still not ruling out accidental suicide by trying to achieve auto-erotic asphyxiation or something like that.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    Exactly. Let's take the one true conspiracy we've seen committed against the American people in our lifetimes: PRISM. How long was it in operation before someone blew the whole thing wide open? 5-6 years?

    ...and the legislation that allowed it to happen? Was it handled by power brokers wheeling and dealing in smoke filled back rooms, away from the prying eyes of the American public? Nope. We could all watch the Patriot Act and the Protect America Act pass through congress live on C-SPAN. Not even 24 hours later, multiple journalists from multiple papers were writing exposes about the carte blanche powers it granted the NSA. A few years later, Snowden shows up, and hands over documented evidence that the NSA was doing what everyone already said the NSA was gonna do.
    Good example.

    Here's some other food for thought to add on to that. It's not like it actually lasted 5-6 years. There were several times that whistleblowers warned PRISM was happening. The collective consensus dismissed what they were saying as kooky conspiracy theories.

    Not only does it turn out that professionals are remarkably skilled at keeping a secret (example, organized crime keeps secrets for decades all the time) but sometimes they don't even need to keep the secret when you have control over "influencers" who can successfully gaslight people into believing that you're a kook if you figure it out.


    One thing I will add from personal experience is that it often doesn't even require a real "secret". The example in mind I have is that the Afghan war was a complete clusterfuck with zero progress yet this very obvious fact was effectively treated as a secret because nobody involved would benefit from speaking the truth about it. Military officers advance their careers by rebranding failure as success, journalists maintain their access by writing fluff pieces that make their contacts look good (which means they can't call a spade a spade), elected officials can't admit a policy failure if they want to get re-elected, and so on. I saw a Colonel stand on stage and claim that his unit had seen a 93% reduction in violence so they had been extremely successful.....except that the unit had arrived in the middle of the summer fighting season and left in the spring before fighting had seriously resumed so his claim was a flat out "lie that cites truth". When everyone shares a common incentive to distort the truth then things when even the slightest bit of subjectivity become very difficult to discern truthfully.

  14. #39
    SShock2.com
    Member

    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: The land of ever sideways rain
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    the Afghan war was a complete clusterfuck with zero progress yet this very obvious fact was effectively treated as a secret
    Was it a secret? Not to us. In some countries, journalists actually do their job, especially if they're public service and not working for profit.

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    Was it a secret? Not to us. In some countries, journalists actually do their job, especially if they're public service and not working for profit.
    From what I've seen, the US press does tend to tone down any negativity about military campaigns, depending on how close ties the individual corporations have with the current government and/or military contractors. The US press tends to try to project an image of "All Victory, No Losses" when it comes to the US military.

    Unless the public is making a noticable fuzz already.

    Also, there's little profit in "The war in {insert country} continues, there's been {x} losses, no progress since last year"-types of headlines, so that kind of stuff tends to be relegated to a small one-paragraph blurbs hidden away next to a large ad. Regardless of where you live.

  16. #41
    So Epstein's plane is still active and flew to ANTARCTICA.


    https://flight-data.adsbexchange.com...ao&icao=A0547F

    Check the log for July 23.


    That's weird AF. I've got nothing and there's no explanation I can think of that would make sense. A gulfstream shouldn't even have the range. But it's still weird that the plane is still operating.

  17. #42
    Did you even check the log before posting? You think the pilot was flying leisurely above Rolla, Missouri and decided to make a quick hop to Antarctica before returning to his scheduled route? It's not even a question of range, it's a jet not the Millennium Falcon.

    It's a tracking glitch, dude.

  18. #43
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Location, Location
    Pretty impressive that it got there and back in 50 seconds, too. That's about 400 miles per second to make the ~20,000 mile round trip in that amount of time. For reference, that's roughly 80 times the orbital speed of the International Space Station, or about 15 times the speed needed to escape the Solar System from Earth. Meteors burning up in the atmosphere don't even go that fast.
    Last edited by Trance; 4th Sep 2019 at 12:04.

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Trance View Post
    Pretty impressive that it got there and back in 50 seconds, too. That's about 400 miles per second to make the ~20,000 mile round trip in that amount of time. For reference, that's roughly 80 times the orbital speed of the International Space Station, or about 15 times the speed needed to escape the Solar System from Earth. Meteors burning up in the atmosphere don't even go that fast.
    Also equivalent to 0.2% of the speed of light.

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by raph View Post
    Did you even check the log before posting? You think the pilot was flying leisurely above Rolla, Missouri and decided to make a quick hop to Antarctica before returning to his scheduled route? It's not even a question of range, it's a jet not the Millennium Falcon.

    It's a tracking glitch, dude.
    The information is entered manually.

    Either someone put in the information wrong or they deliberately put in the wrong destination. Not hard to figure out. I did say as much. There was no reason for me to look at it closely when I can spot something is off with knowledge I have off the top of my head, so any additional disproof is superflous.

    The weird part is that the Lolita Express is still operating even after the operation is supposedly closed down.

  21. #46
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    Location: Minecraft
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    I've got nothing and there's no explanation I can think of that would make sense.
    Followed by

    Not hard to figure out. I did say as much.
    Can we all, as a whole, just agree not to continue humouring his person?

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    Not hard to figure out. I did say as much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    So Epstein's plane is still active and flew to ANTARCTICA. (...) I've got nothing and there's no explanation I can think of that would make sense.
    You didn't say shit, is what. Just sensationalistic drama queen bs. It's like you're not even trying.

    That's laughable.
    Last edited by raph; 4th Sep 2019 at 12:45. Reason: Dammit, ninja'd by driver!

  23. #48
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Location, Location
    It's another hilarious entry in the "Tony, Did You Even" series.

  24. #49
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: uk
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    The information is entered manually.
    What is?

    It's not clear whether that track is based on ADSB output (in which case it's either the aircraft that's unsure where it is or a reception error) or on time difference in reception of a mode S squit by multiple ground stations, if it's the latter then the fewer ground stations there are in any particular location the closer the position is to a complete guess.

    There's no "manually" about it though.

  25. #50
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2000
    Location: VIE, .at
    How do we change our society so that outrage mobs and fake news press cannot be instrumentalised in order to overwhelm individuals and ruin their lives?

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