CONTROL

[Brethren]

My main beef with Alan Wake was simple - it was boring. I couldn't make it past the halfway point in the base game without completely losing interest. Never played Nightmare though.

[froghawk]

The real problem with Alan Wake is that the actual ending is in the DLC, which is by far the best part of the game. They introduce new mechanics in the DLC that make the gameplay way more interesting, and there's a proper boss battle and story resolution at the end. It feels to me like they chopped off the ending to sell later then stretched out the second half of the base game to an interminable degree to compensate, and it gets quite tedious very quickly. Shame they didn't just release it all together and pace it properly.

[Thirith]

Is it worth going back to play Alan Wake: American Nightmare if I've never played it and didn't particularly like the main game? I think it was the latter reason why I never bothered to play it.

[Sulphur]

I'd say yes, as long as you're not going into it for the story or a similar tone or atmosphere. It's very much Alan Wake via an exploitation movie vibe with the (enjoyable to me at least) cheesiness that entails, but the core of it is shooting stuff. They tightened up the gameplay to the point where it's fun (more weapons, different enemy types), and it's a gauntlet that lasts for about five hours or so.

[Thirith]

Cheers. It helps to know that it's relatively short, and yes, shooting does sound better than those interminable flashlight fests.

[Thirith]

While I’m enjoying CONTROL, at times it’s in spite of how the game does things. The worst offender for me is the way it interrupts the game itself to deliver middling to bad conversations and exposition. Those hotline videos, for instance: the video itself is pointless and repetitive, it’s the audio that I’m interested in, so it would be perfect to listen to while exploring - but no, you have to pause and watch the video of a talking dude in silhouette. Similarly, the conversations are long, lacking in style or personality and delivered in ways that highlight this. Deliver the same material while I’m free to do other things and I no longer mind, or make it interesting in some way, but if the only option is to sit down and listen to flatly delivered dialogue and you bore me. This kind of thing works okay in written text IMO, because you read at your own pace, but the exposition that’s delivered in dialogue, audio clips or videos desperately needs to be written and delivered in more engaging ways, or at least in ways that don’t stop you in your tracks.

[Thirith]

Quick question about the environment: does it become more varied later on? The Oldest House is wonderfully moody and coherent, from what I've seen so far, but it is also the kind of environment that quickly becomes samey. Same with the gameplay: do they vary it in fun, interesting ways later on?

[Sulphur]

I don't know where you're at, but yeah, there's at least two or three environment changes if what you mean is you're tired of angular brutalist office spaces. It never stops being moody, though, and you'll be going back and forth through all that concrete multiple times because of the metroidvania construction.

As for the gameplay, I also do not know where you're at. If you've ever played Psi Ops you'll have an inkling of how the gameplay/combat opens up. As with most metroidvanias, the core mechanics remain the same while you get access to more of the environment, so if you're not a fan of that it's going to be something you'll have to tolerate.

I have zero issues with both because I never tire of the spectacle of particles and physics erupting across an environment when flinging things at enemies, and I have a high tolerance for office spaces given F.E.A.R (and life in general), so it's not something that got in the way of my enjoyment, though I can imagine others would be less predisposed to liking them.

My core issue with the game is that for all its moodiness there's very little story to enjoy. The asides and collectibles are great in their SCP-flavoured detail overall, as with time they accrete into a universe of fear evoked by things most mundane, but Jesse's quest isn't particularly interesting in isolation; this leaves one to fall back on the style instead of the substance, which Remedy are very good at - but it's a shallow meal. The game's real core is its mechanics and combat, not the story trappings which are nice, but also ultimately one-note.

[Thirith]

Based on the walkthrough index I've looked at, I think I'm probably about one third into the game. I'm currently doing the "Old Boy's Club" mission.

I like the metroidvania approach, though so far I've not yet got the impression that the environment is designed as elegantly as in the best examples of the genre. Does The Oldest House loop in on itself so that you sometimes come out a door or go up a flight of stairs and find that unexpectedly you're where you started off? Anyway, I expect that once I'll be able to get off the ground a) things will open up more and b) the environment will feel quite a bit different if I'm no longer earthbound.

[Sulphur]

RE: does it loop on itself - yes, in a few nice ways, but very rarely in the sort of dopamine-release 'a-ha!' moment of a Dark Souls. That would require a sort of coherent internal architecture/mental map you build in a game while traversing it, and as you would've noticed Control's gimmick with The Old House is semi-antithetical to that.

And yeah, I'd say you're going to find it opening out a bit from where you're at both in terms of gameplay and environment.

[Thirith]

Oh, I think it could've done a more loopy version of that , though I'm not sure it would be as effective, at least after the first time it does so.

Have you played the first DLC? Is it good, more of the same or good because it's more of the same?

[Sulphur]

I've played some of the DLC and am enjoying it because it's been a return after a break. There's a new power or two that it focuses around but in practice they seem to be additive mechanics, not things that redefine the gameplay or reframe it in scintillating new ways. I haven't finished it, but henke posted his thoughts earlier and if I'm reading them right his conclusion was, 'more Control, 's all right'.

[Thirith]

I just finished Control, and while I liked it well enough, it didn't grab me enough for me to be all that interested in the DLC. I think my main issue is that the way the game delivers its world and plot don't particularly work for me. I didn't particularly like most of the characters, I never warmed to Jesse, and the dialogues often felt clunky. The gameplay is fine but it's also tremendously repetitive. It's one of those games where I wonder what a P&C adventure set in this world could feel like. Having bounced off both this and Alan Wake to some extent, I'm wondering whether I'd still like Max Payne 2 if I were to return to that one.

[henke]

Oh yeah I played through the AWE DLC. It's got some cool bossfights. I wish there were more Control still to come. I hope there'll be a sequel.

In the meantime, let's have some Finnish tango.

[EvaUnit02]

I hope there'll be a sequel.

Don't hold your breath. The game was a sales flop (unless the recent Steam release changes things).

[Tomi]

I've been playing Control recently. I'm already quite a few hours in, and while the game is the usual Remedy quality (=pretty damn good), for some reason it's not gripping me like their other games have. I don't know why exactly that is. Maybe the metroidvania kind of gameplay doesn't suit Control so well - running back and forth the same places over and over again isn't so much fun. I'd like to see some more variety in the enemies too. The gunfights are usually awesome, but they're often a bit too easy, and many of the enemies aren't particularly interesting.

That's just about all the flaws that I can think of, though. And don't get me wrong, the list of the positive things is much longer. Visually Control is kind of a mixed bag. You probably wouldn't believe from the screenshots that Control actually looks gorgeous, but when you see the game in action, you'll understand what I mean. It's all the effects and colours and all that that really bring the game alive, and in the middle of the action you won't have time to pay attention to some badly optimized textures. The whole action side - movement, gunplay, and superpowers - feels very polished and (super)natural, the various superpowers in particular can be really fun to play with. The main story won't win any sci-fi awards, I do find it entertaining though, but what I really love in Control is the gameworld in general. It can be funny, scary, or just plain weird, and you'll never know what to expect. Some of the ideas are so absurd that they could have been borrowed from Douglas Adams, and I mean that as a big compliment.

I can't wait to see where Control takes me next, but I'm taking it slowly. This game is best played in small doses, I think.

[henke]

Don't hold your breath. The game was a sales flop (unless the recent Steam release changes things).

Actually, despite a slow start it ended up selling quite well, recently passing 2 million copies sold.

https://gamerant.com/control-sales-numbers/

According to the company's figure during its first-ever Capital Markets Day presentation, Control is now the fastest-growing IP for the studio since Max Payne.

But as for future Remedy titles...

Remedy also talked about a new project that will be a live-service multiplayer game.

Boo!

[Tomi]

Remedy also talked about a new project that will be a live-service multiplayer game.

Boo!

Boo indeed! That sounds disappointing. But could that "new project" be the XBox version of the totally legendary Crossfire(X)?

To be honest, I've never heard of Crossfire or CrossfireX before, but apparently that is (or was?) a huge hit in Asia. The game uses the Northlight engine that we've already seen in Control and Quantum Break, and Remedy will be responsible for the single-player campaign here. The multiplayer mode will be free-to-play. I might be totally wrong (I usually am), but something gives me the impression that this isn't Remedy's next big project... or at least I sure hope that they're working on something more exciting than this:



It looks good with all those gorgeous effects and lovely destruction, but it doesn't really feel like a Remedy game.

[Tomi]

Anyway, back to Control... I've been playing it quite a bit over the last two weeks! It takes a while before the game really gets going, but when it does, it's just wonderful. For me the turning point was a couple of hours in when I got a bunch of side quests and new skills, and suddenly the Oldest House was full of things to do and new places to explore. I love those little secrets and details that are scattered all over the place. I just finished the main story, and so far it has been such a good ride - I've still got the DLC left to play. The story does get a bit too weird at times, and towards the end even the action starts to get a bit repetitive, but I blame the pointless "board countermeasures" missions for the latter. I shouldn't have wasted so much time on those, when the rewards (upgrade items and mods) are almost equally pointless.

I was sure that the whole thing with Ahti would get annoying and old really quickly (he's like all the stereotypes of a Finnish person thrown in together) but I actually find him quite hilarious. I wonder if it's only funny for Finnish people though, because all those pearls of wisdom, the obsession with tango, and literal translations of Finnish idioms surely are just weird nonsense for everyone else. I think Ahti's story was left somehow unfinished, I was expecting something more to happen, but that goes for pretty much every other character too. This game needs a sequel. I found the ending quite odd too, and somewhat disappointing.

I already started the "Alan Wake" DLC too, and while it seems to be pretty much the same, the Alan Wake references (I still have the game fresh in my mind as I only played it last year) and new areas to explore keep it interesting. Despite having all those different guns in the game, I only use "Pierce" and "Grip" for the most of the time - the others, Spin in particular, feel somehow useless. I don't use the Shield that much either, but maybe I should learn to do so if I want to get through the tougher challenge missions. I hope that the DLC forces me to change my habits somehow, but I doubt that. It's all good though - piercing the enemies and throwing random objects at them is fun enough, but some variation would be even more fun.

[Hit Deity]

I just finished Control and it was 98% incredible. The weird checkpoint placement for some areas, and then the whole "you don't realize you can't beat this part yet until you get something specific that we aren't going to tell you what it is" thing kinda irked me.

Did anyone else get The Lost Room references? It was kinda obvious that that series inspired the Oceanview Motel sequences. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost_Room
That was one of my favorite yet short-lived tv series at a little over 4 hours' worth of runtime...

But overall, it felt like Alan Wake, one of my favorite all-time games to come out in the past decade. I identified with that game on so many levels, beat it on every difficulty, and every pc I've owned it just gets better and better... my current system runs it at 4K with everything possible enabled at a solid 60fps with my favorite reshader on it. I mean, what's not to like?

And Control just blew me away, with all the surreal strangeness that just didn't let up. I was engrossed from the start, and I enjoyed it all the way through.

Once I got the Charge weapon maxed to its highest, I rarely used anything else except Grip (when I was in a close-quarters area and didn't want the splash damage hurting me), and of course Launch. Fully upgraded, I could instantly wreck most of the enemies in the game, and it was just tremendous fun floating around and slinging rubble at everything. Shield was kinda useless for me, since just dodging repeatedly kept throwing off the majority of the enemies' aim.

Ahti was great, Tomi. I liked his character a lot. The DLC parts help clear up some things, but I don't think Ahti got much more resolution in them. Could be wrong though, but I don't think so.

They do hint pretty heavily that Alan Wake is their next title, and will be arriving (hopefully) in 2022 as specified in the DLC. Then, hopefully, more Control. We'll see!!

I'm currently jumping around: trying to finish Doom Eternal on Ultra-Violence, but that one fight near the end of the game is kicking my butt. Then, I keep going back to Kingdom Come: Deliverance, and then I just recently got a craving to play FarCry 3, but 2nd favorite FC game (after FC2). So, juggling 3 games right now, which is kinda weird for me. But after fighting the same fight in DE for about 30 minutes, I have to take a break or risk giving up entirely. :-p

[Malf]

Here's my post regarding the game from the 2020 megathread:

With the benefit of hindsight, I feel they wasted a lot of the potential from the source material Control was based on by falling back on a very limited roster of enemies, all designed to fill a specific role. While the back story was pretty interesting and gloriously hammy, it was rarely reflected in the actual gameplay. Even the Ashtray Maze, which is a triumph of level design, was still populated by the same enemies you'd been fighting all along.

And while the combat was overall pretty good and quite compelling, I had many times where I felt it wasn't balanced properly. I'd be fighting enemies off fine, then all of a sudden get one-shotted with no clear indication as to why.

I still stand by that; I've yet to finish the AWE DLC mind you, but I doubt there's enough variety in it to change my mind. The game promises weird adventures in an SCP Foundation inspired scenario, but never really attains that level of weird.
And the looter-shooter, "Games as a service" styled elements they've crowbarred in feel completely superfluous.

[Thirith]

I think I just realised something: to some extent, I mind that Control isn't more like Psychonauts. Obviously the two are very different games, the tone is very different - but where one used its mindbending, anything is possible premise to create multiple varied worlds peopled by interesting, fun characters, the other one didn't. Much of the imagination that undoubtedly is in Control is in its collectibles, but there's just too much there that is exceedingly samey. The setpieces are great, but they're too few and far between, and what's there between the setpieces ended up dragging the game down for me.

[Tomi]

Yeah, I suppose that Control does get a bit "samey" every now and then. Some more variation in locations and especially enemies would have been nice. Your Psychonauts comparison is interesting, and you've got a point there. However, while Psychonauts is all about the psychedelia and fun, Control takes a bit more serious approach and alternates between the surreal, horror and comedy. Perhaps it's a good thing that Control doesn't go over the top with the silliness.

Great write-up, Hit Deity! (good to see you around here too!) I found Charge a bit underwhelming to be honest, but maybe I just didn't learn to use it properly. Bombing enemies from up above was fun though! My weapon of choice almost throughout the game was Pierce, and it became just ridiculously good with the -100% shot charge time mod. Grip was my second choice, but I hardly ever used the others. Spin and even Shatter just aren't powerful enough against the tougher enemies. I'm with you on the Shield - I found it a bit useless too, but maybe it suits someone else's playing style.

I was really surprised to see the Alan Wake reveal at the end of the DLC. I never thought that I'd see a new Alan Wake game, but needless to say, I'm really looking forward to whatever they're planning.

[Pyrian]

SCP in general is mostly about taking a silly idea and then taking it waaay too seriously.