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Thread: OMs - Ghost/Perfect Thief Results [SPOILERS]

  1. #26
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth
    No but I never bound it directly to a key. I had to pull it up then use it, which is 2 keystrokes. I never made it but was close, so this is totally cool Galaer.

  2. #27
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    I checked your method and yes, using twice "previous item" button to select invisibility potion and then use it is slightly too slow. By the time I'm using potion, I get second alert. After 20 failed attempts I used my method and ghosted this watcher on my first try. So it's possible to do it consistently.

    I also heard that there are some functions in Controls added in Newdark. So I wonder is binding invisibility potions was even possible in Olddark?

  3. #28
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth
    Oh I think it was. I remember setting invisio potion to a certain button, then I just had to press it and 'use' to turn invisible, but it was never fast enough. How do you set a key to use invisibility potion directly?

  4. #29
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    I have "U" for invisibility potion, but it can be any other button and default RMB for using items. After starting the mission you need wait a split of second for mission to load and then you have split of second of pressing both buttons one after another. And when I succeed it feels like I pressed only one button instead of two. At least that's how I feel. The first time I was even surprised by this thought. But really it's not that hard.

  5. #30
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    RUNNING INTERFERENCE ON HARD DIFFICULTY

    EXPLANATION


    You will probably ask right now why do I ghost this mission on Hard difficulty instead on Expert. And then I will ask you: is Expert really the hardest difficulty for ghosting this mission? No, it's actually opposite. Normal and Hard are much harder, because they don't have knockout objective. Nobody ever achieved beating this mission without any knockouts. Time to change that.

    So what are the other changes between Hard and Expert. Well, I have more health. But for ghost mode doesn't allow damage from enemies. And that's the only damage you can really score in this mission. Smaller loot objective, but let's be honest - getting all loot in this mission is very easy.

    From what I read on wiki, guards are all the same sensitive on all difficulties. Number of guards is also the same. On Hard though door leading to 3rd floor are open, but grabbing key to it on Expert isn't very problematic.

    The biggest difference is lack of knockout objective. This means that supreme ghost is just not possible. I will score many 1st alerts and do some other supreme busts. For the loot run the only problem is passing guard on short patrol on top of stairs at the start of mansion. I do it by entering side room, when guard will pass I quickly run on the other side. I doubt this guard can be supreme ghosted.

    PREPARATIONS

    On Basso's route is 4 obstacles. Obstacle #1 is 2 guards in lookout room. But you can douse torch to beat it.

    Next is Obstacle #2 - stationary guard in narrow corridor. The intended solution is of course to KO him, but I can't do it. My first idea was to nudge him into storage and then push him into left corner. To do that I pushed all barrels under wall to 3 crates. But after I nudged him into storage, I realized that he's looking into kitchen's direction, so nudging him left is out of question.

    I decided to nudge him past door leading to kitchen. It's not easy, because he's actually sensitive and can easily second alert if you are slightly to the side and you will move too fast. I tested if I can enter and leave kitchen without 2nd alert and tested if I can pass archer and go to Jenivere's cell without scoring 2nd alert from nudged guard. It worked. By the way, nudging guard took me 40 min.

    Obstacle #3 is servant in kitchen. Problem with him is he's moving in random patrol routes. The idea is to pass him when he's going to wine cellar. Another problem is he's entering little storage where I will need to time archer. So I decided to douse torch in this room as well.

    Obstacle #4 is archer patrolling corridor. North part of corridor near storage - archer turns around by turning left. Timing his turn is necessary to return to storage after saving Jenivere. South part of corridor - archer can stop and turn around in 2 ways. If he stops in the middle of south corridor, then to turn around he will turn right. So don't try to ghost him then. Instead wait for second way: archer stops at the beginning of south corridor, there is no gap to go to Jenivere. Then he will do 2 steps forward and in order to turn around he will turn left. And that's the way to pass him.

    Other than that, I'm leaving all doors on Basso's route open and also door leading to Servant Quarters open. I noticed that Basso can waste a second in order to try to open door. One last thing. I heard opinion that saving and loading during Basso's going through basement can broke his route. I can tell you it's just a myth. Game never broke for me.

    ESCORTING BASSO

    Time to return Basso and use birdcall. Run all the way to door to kitchen to block Basso. You need to time servant when he's walking from middle of room to wine cellar. Move forward to doorway leading to archer's corridor to block Basso. Basso will stop in storage for about 5 seconds, then walk to you. You need to wait for archer to go to south end after using this turn that you can't ghost. Because he alternate his turning on south part regularly. You also need to worry about servant.

    When archer will pass Servant Quarters door release Basso and hide in Servant Quarters. Basso will walk to almost the end of corridor, then he will start running and pass archer during his turning animation. Wait for archer to pass you and run to block Basso and Jenivere from leaving.

    ESCAPE

    Originally I thought that I can only release only Basso first and pray for him to pass archer during his turning animation and pray for servant to move to wine cellar at that moment. Then do the same with Jenivere. Guess what, it's much easier.

    After archer will walk north for a few seconds release both Jenivere and Basso. Go behind them and hide in Servants Quarters. Archer will only first alert to them. Now you need servant to walk to wine cellar or walk into storage. Even if he bump into them in dark storage, he will not alert! He can only spot them when he's in the kitchen and they are travelling in front of him. After they left kitchen, I returned to close all doors and left mansion.

    STATS:

    Time: 1 hour 18 min 36 s; Loot: 1295/1295
    Pockets Picked: 5/9
    Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
    Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
    Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
    Secrets: 3/3

    GHOST: SUCCESS
    PERFECT GHOST: SUCCESS
    SUPREME GHOST: IMPOSSIBLE. I scored a lot of 1st alerts, nudged a guard and douse 2 torches.

    FINAL NOTES


    And that's the end of this challenge. It was actually more easy than I thought. That way it's possible to ghost this mission without KO-ing anyone. One thing I don't understand is loot count. Somehow on Hard difficulty you can get 10 loot more than on Expert. Yes, 1295 isn't a typo like I originally thought. I didn't notice any new loot piece, so that means one loot piece is just worth more. Weird.

  6. #31
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    BLOOPER REEL

    Bonus mission of Thief Gold. Never read ghost report about it, so let's give it a try. So to complete the mission you need to use switch inside right after front guards. The unfortunate thing is the only intended way in is through front entrance. There is also loot stored in one room inside.

    GETTING INSIDE

    Go to wall to the right from front entrance and do a stack of 4 healing potions. Mantle on it and jump over a wall. There is no way to recover healing potions. You are on sealed part of the street. Go to well. There is one patroller who will completely ignore you. Grab 3 bottles near well and take them to north wall. Do a stack of 3 bottles and on top of them do a stack from all healing potions you have (5). Mantle on stack and mantle on top of wall. Mantle on wooden part and jump on to of north wall. You are above south part of Garden. Just drop on tree.

    LOOTING AND LEAVING

    Go to corridor and go right to room with 3 drunk guards. One of them will spot you, run to you, after 1 second he will change his mind and return into corner, but stand turned around. I believe that this is still a ghost bust #1. The rest of guards will ignore you, so grab all golden bottles from table. Leave and continue going to stairs leading down to front entrance.

    On stairs you can spot dancing zombies. Don't worry, they will ignore you. When you are far away they will move towards room with drunk guards you visited earlier. Also if there is dancing zombie at the bottom in room with standing zombies and archer on the left, then entering this room will second alert archer. In that situation just go away and return when dancing zombie is on stairs.

    Next is room with standing zombies and archer. Quickly run right to avoid 2nd alert from archer (only possible when dancing zombies aren't presented in this room). Then just go along right wall to end switch, which will 2nd alert archer and front guards (ghost bust #2).

    STATS:

    Time: 9 min 52 s; Loot: 850/850
    Locks Picked: 0
    Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
    Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
    Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0

    GHOST: IMPOSSIBLE
    PERFECT GHOST: IMPOSSIBLE
    SUPREME GHOST: IMPOSSIBLE

  7. #32
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth
    Very nice reports, Galaer! I especially like your Running Interference explanation. After I recently ghosted that one, I've seen multiple people requesting ghosting without knockouts. Running it on hard is a nice way to force that. Very interesting writeup. It makes me want to spin it up and retry it (which I might well do).

  8. #33
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    I noticed that there are small difference in your video when you play T2fix compared to my run on Tafferpatcher. In your run Basso doesn't wait before he's starting to walk. In my run Basso wait around 5 seconds. It's possible there is more differences between Tafferpatcher and T2Fix. Interesting thing I noticed is on Blooper Reel you can mantle everywhere while in Bafford Manor some walls can't be mantled. It's still possible (at least in Tafferpatcher) to climb on Bafford Manor roof and return to starting point.

  9. #34
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Mantling changes with new-dark vs old-dark does change the game dynamics rather significantly especially with some of the other updates.

    I applied New-Dark to the original Dark Project (i.e. the first release, not Gold) I find that new-dark allows me to perfect ghost some levels easier - but it makes it impossible to perfect ghost return to the cathedral with full loot.

    I'd like to find a way to set the engine level on a per-level basis w/o resorting to manually starting one engine to start a partical level but i haven't found a way to hook the binaries. Yet.

  10. #35
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth
    Yes Return cannot be Perfect Thieved in NewDark. One loot item at St. Yora's, a plate behind a zombie in alcove, must be skipped. My original run outline on my website was in OldDark, while updates in green have been inserted for NewDark differences. Not sure if you have seen/read them. Take a look if you'd like. Here is my lengthy report on Return.
    Klatremus' Supreme Thief Site - Walkthroughs, Loot Lists & Ghost Reports
    Let's Supreme Ghost Thief - YouTube Channel with Thief Let's Plays

  11. #36
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2020
    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    Hey there. Not a report, but a discovery. It's about Sabotage at Soulforge. I found out that first watcher from the very beginning of the mission is ghostable. I know that alert from it is excused by community, but I found a way to avoid even first alert from it. Well, it's not without sacrifices. The idea is to buy invisibility potion and immediately after starting the mission use it. You really want to bind invisibility potion to single button. Timing is tricky and I found that mashing buttons didn't work for me. You need the proper timing. But it's really not that hard. Every time it take me just few tries. The sacrifice is that you can only achieve chemical ghost success that way. In current times it's probably just a fun fact rather than useful trick.
    Came here exactly to post this, but looks like I was a month late haha. Here's a short video that demonstrates it.
    https://youtu.be/QfiqBhTqFUk

    If it matters, I'm playing on T2Fix 1.27b. I bounded the potion to a letter key. It seems like you can't even see the item being selected because it's used immediately.

  12. #37
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Jay View Post
    Came here exactly to post this, but looks like I was a month late haha. Here's a short video that demonstrates it.
    https://youtu.be/QfiqBhTqFUk

    If it matters, I'm playing on T2Fix 1.27b. I bounded the potion to a letter key. It seems like you can't even see the item being selected because it's used immediately.
    Awesome, first video proof.

    Also I wanted to correct myself. I said previously that I got idea of community saying that alert from first watcher in Soulforge isn't bust of ghost from Travis Whitsitt video. I rewatched it again and looks like I was wrong. He mention this actually as a ghost bust. Still it was mentioned in 2 ghost reports from Thief 2 Ghost Reports from year 2000. One of this reports mention checking details in "Ghosting Soulforge" thread. Probably somewhere in old Eidos forum. Finding this thread could give some answers regarding community's position in case of this watcher.

  13. #38
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Thief 2 - OM Trail of Blood [NewDark]

    playmode- IRONMAN
    ghost - IMPOSSIBLE - must damage ice blocking path to get to exit..
    perfect thief - Impossible - see above.
    supreme ghost - Impossible - see above
    perfect supreme - Impossible - see above and also I picked a pocket that wasn't needed.

    Total time 27 minutes 57 seconds
    2300 / 2330 loot
    pockets picked 2/3 (The second pick was in error - normally i only pick the purse of the first patrolling mechanist in this level)
    locks picked 0
    all damage stats 0
    secrets found 0/0

    I did have a few "who's the noisy one?" level 1 alerts from the ape-beasts in the fall grotto - i used a vine arrow to get down from the top level and landed noisily enough to generate that level 1 comment from both ape-beasts that warm themselves.

    no 2nd level alerts.

    chemical used - speed potion to leap stone-to-stone after getting the loot at the long drop. Getting that loot often results in damage getting across the grotto but i was able to strafe-run jump to the first rock and used the speed potion to run-jump the rest of the way and not take any damage.

    Since i knew i had to bust the ice at the exit i was unconcerned about property damage and torches etc.
    I used four water arrows to douse the torches by the stationary ape-beasts to pass them at the top of the cliffs.

    I had no problems crossing the final grotto - I have no idea if any tree-beasts level 1 alerted or not. didn't care.
    Last edited by lordhern; 11th Apr 2020 at 22:34. Reason: corrected the level title - Trail of Blood

  14. #39
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    lordhern: Wrong mission name. Blackmail is about Truart's mansion. You are talking about Trail of Blood.

  15. #40
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by klatremus View Post
    Yes Return cannot be Perfect Thieved in NewDark. One loot item at St. Yora's, a plate behind a zombie in alcove, must be skipped. My original run outline on my website was in OldDark, while updates in green have been inserted for NewDark differences. Not sure if you have seen/read them. Take a look if you'd like. Here is my lengthy report on Return.
    thanks - btw - the basement zombie in the penance booth - if you approach the door DIRECTLY from the front you can open the door, lean past the zombie and get the loot without alerting the zombie, and without triggering his scripted movements. I left the same info on your youtube channel video of your new-dark run. (my youtube username is "spambotfodder")

  16. #41
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    lordhern: Wrong mission name. Blackmail is about Truart's mansion. You are talking about Trail of Blood.
    Thanks for the reminder - corrected above.

  17. #42
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Thief 2 - Life of the Party [NewDark]

    playmode- IRONMAN failure I had to reload after reading the scripture -see details below
    ghost - Busted - property damage - see below.
    perfect thief - Impossible - see above.
    supreme ghost - Impossible - see above
    perfect supreme - Impossible - see above, also must nudge the lady's at louisa's out of the way.

    Total time 16 Hours, 36 minutes 07 seconds
    2853 / 2853 loot
    pockets picked 24/24
    locks picked 12
    all damage stats 0
    secrets found 7/7

    This level is a joy - the BEST one of the entire game and it's a royal PAIN to try and ironman it in ghost mode. ironman in blackjack-everything mode is easy.


    Regarding the pickpockets. - while the archers are in their scripted argument you can pick their arrows - just be sure you are out of sight when they are done as they might go into level-2 hunt or level-3 alarm when they wrap up their verbal assault on each other as normal alerting is not possible to detect.

    For the ring with the house-breakers i entered via the building basement and looted the room during their scripted conversation. similar alert warnings apply. I also exited via the basement taking all the boxes to angelwatch.


    for the chest pick on the 3rd floor I used moss arrows to silence the path from the door to the bed behind the red-dressed lady, strafe-ran-jumped behind her - then picked the chest - then I strafe-ran-out of the room - she level1 alerted a total of three times.

    nudging - In an apartment I had to nudge a guard out of the way to get some loot. - I also had to nudge both ladys on the way to the tower, had to nudge the stationary guard outside the office to get around him.

    other 1st level alerts: opening doors to get purse pick on floor 3, ,also when I used a vine arrow in the library the lady with the servant commented on the noise. A noble on the 6th floor alerted to me making noise in the fountain and the secret door on 5th floor - causes all patrollers to comment when passing it.




    reason for ironman failure: I found the golden boy hung-up on the 2nd window sill - he had exited my box train and the disabled mine I had left in that windowsill was too far "into" the window i.e. not close enough to the edge.

    my method of dealing with the golden-boy is based on what Sneak discovered in his RELENTLESS search for ways to ghost the game. For this level I normally carry nearly EVERY available box in the mission to angelwatch and bring it to this room to make a continuous line from the golden-boy spawn point to just past the 3rd window. I also drop a mine into the corner of each windowsill (and disable each of them.)

    I discovered the disabled mine wasn't close enough to the edge of the 2nd windowsill and the golden boy had wedged into the edge of that window - I did not have an invisibility potions - so I was forced to reload, reset the mine in the corner of the 2nd windowsill and proceeded with a normal ghost attempt run.

    after a busy evening and a good night sleep I came back to the computer to find the golden boy at the wall. This was probably around the 13 or 14 hour mark so I have no idea WHEN he actually made it across the room.

    after I bypassed the golden boy I tackled the office. I tried for nearly twenty minutes to grab the blue-prints through the painting - no joy - so I had to pass office guard twice more going to back out to turn off the safe alarm. the office guard commended SIX times in total. I made sure to re-enable the safe alarm after i grabbed the blueprint.

    the first-floor loot was the last bit of loot I went after - and it wasn't a problem - when I got downstairs after waiting out the golden boy the first-floor guard had fidgetted out of the way so i was able to grab both statues w/o issues.

    I was able to return all but one box to it's starting point. I misjudged tossing them and one went sailing down to street level and shattered. all the rest were ok.

    On my way back to the tower I discovered all four of the arguing archers dead - This is the first time I've seen them all dead before. has anyone else had this happen?
    Last edited by lordhern; 13th Apr 2020 at 06:53.

  18. #43
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    lordhern: Wow, you decide to move golden child by doing Sneak's way and you waited 16 hours while attempting Ironman. That's just crazy.

    As for your ghost failure reasoning - it's wrong. Ghost mode only requires from you to avoid 2nd alert, avoid doing damage to enemies and avoid damage property. It doesn't require you to close any door, you can leave them all open. Supreme ghost excuse not closing door only in the case where door is unable to close. Like in your case - safe is unable to close. That's not a bust.

    What is a bust is destruction of crate that you threw down on street. It shattered and this is damage property, which is a ghost bust.

  19. #44
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    lordhern: Wow, you decide to move golden child by doing Sneak's way and you waited 16 hours while attempting Ironman. That's just crazy.

    As for your ghost failure reasoning - it's wrong. Ghost mode only requires from you to avoid 2nd alert, avoid doing damage to enemies and avoid damage property. It doesn't require you to close any door, you can leave them all open. Supreme ghost excuse not closing door only in the case where door is unable to close. Like in your case - safe is unable to close. That's not a bust.

    What is a bust is destruction of crate that you threw down on street. It shattered and this is damage property, which is a ghost bust.
    Corrected above - btw have you over encountered all the archers dead? I have played this level dozens of times to find one or two on one side or the other still standing.
    Last edited by lordhern; 13th Apr 2020 at 06:58.

  20. #45
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by lordhern View Post
    Corrected above - btw have you over encountered all the archers dead? I have played this level dozens of times to find one or two on one side or the other still standing.
    Never. I guess 2 archers released their arrows at the same time, but it never happened to me. But I had some weird situation with them. It happened when I was doing one of my challenge runs. Archer from tower survived, he went into search mode and somehow fell on lower floor and... get stuck on ceiling. It was on Tafferpatcher 1.25. Really super weird.

    klatremus: You mentioned that you don't like design changes in Newdark Thief 2 (like this chest in Shipping and Receiving). I don't know how to revert it back in T2Fix, but this is how to do it in Tafferpatcher. Tafferpatcher creates in your Thief 2 folder, folder called "patchedmis" with all patched mission files and dml fixes. If you delete this folder, you will play Thief 2 with new mantle, but also with original design.

    I don't know how T2Fix works. If it's like TFix for Thief 1, then maybe deleting dml fixes help.
    Last edited by Galaer; 13th Apr 2020 at 09:42.

  21. #46
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2010
    i'm currently trying the "running interference" on hard mode rt now - i'm trying to sort out where the loot difference is. the number of loot items doesn't seem any different. so i'm running two VM's side by side and switching between the hard/expert to find the 10 extra.

    I'll report back when i locate the extra ten.

    Reporting back.

    the gold plate that was out front on Expert is now in the basement on a table between the fireplace and the dumbwaiter. value 50 on Hard.
    The plate out front on Hard is now a dull plate with worth 10 goods.

    so there is an extra loot item after all on Hard.
    Last edited by lordhern; 13th Apr 2020 at 15:49. Reason: Found the extra loot item.

  22. #47
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth
    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    klatremus: You mentioned that you don't like design changes in Newdark Thief 2 (like this chest in Shipping and Receiving). I don't know how to revert it back in T2Fix, but this is how to do it in Tafferpatcher. Tafferpatcher creates in your Thief 2 folder, folder called "patchedmis" with all patched mission files and dml fixes. If you delete this folder, you will play Thief 2 with new mantle, but also with original design.

    I don't know how T2Fix works. If it's like TFix for Thief 1, then maybe deleting dml fixes help.
    I keep a completely different folder with vanilla Thief 2. I simply copied the .mis file into the NewDark folder and tested. Then the chest was reset to where I remember it being. If I just deleted the .dml file the chest remained in the changed position. I think .dmls only alter texture alignments and cosmetic stuff. At least this chest change was hardcoded into the .mis file. Saying that I don't like it is an understatement. I think this is an example of gross alteration of the authors' original intention of gameplay. However subtle players seem to think this change is, it's wrong on principle.

  23. #48
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    There is one more difference that I remember that you will probably not experience. Remember front guard from Angelwatch. He's always looking in one way, so there is no way to grab 2 statuettes without invisible potion. Well, in Tafferpatcher it was changed, so he frequently turns towards door. Thanks to that it's possible to supreme ghost collecting these statuettes. But since you altered your mission files, you will never experience that. I believe that 1st secret passage in Gervasius Manor has been enlarged, so it's easier to go through it. In Olddark I remember getting really annoyed that I couldn't get through it.

    On the other hand, can't you consider all these changes you don't like, a Newdark feature and just mention that in your ghost reports. I mean there is new mantle that you should probably disable, because it's a huge game changer. Also have in mind that a lot of glitches possible in Olddark is impossible to reproduce in Newdark.

    Also have in mind that your reports will not be that useful for new ghosters. They will start ghosting in Newdark and be very confused by experiencing different situations from what you experience. So I would say it would be better if you stay with fixed mission files, instead of altering them to your liking. I we already have your Olddark ghost reports and you just want to repeat all of them with Newdark attached to the name. That's not gonna work. Sorry.
    Last edited by Galaer; 14th Apr 2020 at 04:59.

  24. #49
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth
    Oh my ghost reports certainly reflects NewDark. I include any differences from OldDark to NewDark in green, so that it's easily visible to readers. The OldDark text is still preserved. My current ghost run is with the fixed missions, I was just saying I compared to the vanilla version by temporarily copying over the original .mis file.

    If that guard in Angelwatch is now turning, that is almost a worse alteration than the chest in Shipping. Why on earth was that done???
    I don't remember the secret passage. Do you mean the one you enter the building with in the beginning? If so, that is an understandable fix.

  25. #50
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    klatremus: Sorry. Looks like I misunderstood you previously. I believe there is even more changes that doesn't always make game easier. On Tafferpatcher 1.25 people walking on stairs in Angelwatch have tendency to get stuck at the middle of stairs leading upstairs from your position. If you manage to get upstairs above them, then after returning to stairs they block at the middle of even higher stairs. So getting to Ballroom is tricky. No idea if the same thing happens in T2Fix though.

    And I believe there is many more changes in different missions than that. And yes, by secret passage I mean secret entrance to Gervasius House. As for why these changes have been implemented, this is just my guess, but I heard voices of few people that Thief 2 was rushed. So maybe authors tried to implement these fixes, but failed to do that in time. So fans fixed that in their place. That's just my guess though.

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