OMs - Ghost/Perfect Thief Results [SPOILERS]

[lordhern]

Since Galaer noted the extra loot on normal for running interference i went ahead and tried ghosting it on hard.


total time spent - 2hr 13 minutes 1 second - but it was NOT ironman.
Total loot 1295 / 1295
all pockets picked, all secrets found
ZERO damage stats

Perfect thief success (ASSUMED - see below)
ghost success (ASSUMED - see below) - only first alerts and the required nudging of the stationary guard from ME...


for this run I first mantled over the front gate. crept walked to the middle to grab the goblet and the "plate worth 10 goods" then backed out to the front and then crept-creeped around to the right side of the porch - picked the guard then went all the way around the other side, and picked the left front guard too.

crept all the way to the front - mantled over and then went in through the side door.

put out the torch where the guards are at the window and as per Galaer's run I spent over an hour nudging the stationary purse guard past the kitchen door. had to reload three times doing this.

I was able to dodge patrols and loot the entire place before wandering outside without any first alerts on the 1st floor and wing patrols.

Then I went outside to pick the patrolling archer that shows up after you go in the side door.

I positioned myself in the first dark area to the left of the gate and get a 1st alert from the archer as i picked him as he passed.

then I went back out to the front and here I took a hard save - blew the whistle and let Basso do his run unescorted.

mission failed after ten minutes, reloaded, waited an extra minute or so and repeated the whistle and unescorted run.

five minutes later "Objective complete" and the mission ended successfully as Basso and Geneviere rounded the corner - I know I didn't get any 2nd level alerts - dunno if Basso or Geneviere got any.

[Jax64]

klatremus: You mentioned that you don't like design changes in Newdark Thief 2 (like this chest in Shipping and Receiving). I don't know how to revert it back in T2Fix, but this is how to do it in Tafferpatcher. Tafferpatcher creates in your Thief 2 folder, folder called "patchedmis" with all patched mission files and dml fixes. If you delete this folder, you will play Thief 2 with new mantle, but also with original design.

With T2Fix, all you have to do is run setup again and ensure the mission and resource fix is unchecked on the component selection page. The fixed missions will be fully uninstalled and the original, unmodified missions will be reinstated. No manual configuration is required to do this.

klatremus: Sorry. Looks like I misunderstood you previously. I believe there is even more changes that doesn't always make game easier. On Tafferpatcher 1.25 people walking on stairs in Angelwatch have tendency to get stuck at the middle of stairs leading upstairs from your position. If you manage to get upstairs above them, then after returning to stairs they block at the middle of even higher stairs. So getting to Ballroom is tricky. No idea if the same thing happens in T2Fix though.

I believe the pathfinding issues on the stairs in Angelwatch were fixed in more recent versions of Thief2 Fixed. T2Fix offers the same mission patch as Tafferpatcher did, but a much more recent version of it.

[Galaer]

lordhern: I'm guessing that you did this run with this device that shows you when you scored 2nd alert. Otherwise Basso and Jeniviere could 2nd or even 3rd alerted someone, but still escape in time. And mission would just end without you realizing about any ghost bust. Like for example there is servant in the kitchen. His 3rd alert is running away to guards and this would be a window of time in which Basso and Jeniviere escaped. But still it would be a ghost bust for you, because you triggered Basso running. That's why I have escorted them. Just to be sure.

[lordhern]

hence my ASSUMED for that run - I did keep the hard save point - I just wanted to see if basso could do it without an escort - I find it funny in the grand scheme of things.


This morning reloaded the save point and after waiting the minute I did escort Basso in - Basso made it past the kitchen servant w/o alert (the servant was in the winerack.) I doused the torch in the storage room as I blocked basso from the archer and then continued with Basso to the door.

After he freed her I was able to get to the storage room with her and block Basso from entering the kitchen until the servant went to the wine rack again.

Basso made it out of the kitchen before the servant came back out of the winerack but SHE was in full view as the servant came out. The servant did NOT react to her at all. completely ignored her. I'll take it.

with escorting Basso I can can CONFIRM ghost success with a run time of 2hr 18 minutes 38 seconds

[lordhern]

Since restarted the missions to keep my campaign damage @ zero i went ahead and ghosted shipping/receiving accepting the chemical usage (used invisibility to rush through the spiders) and property damage busts to keep my loot count at MAX.

then I ironman framed and this time....

Framed:
Ironman mode
Ghost - Success
Perfect Thief - Sucess
Supreme Ghost - SUCCESS
Perfect Supreme - SUCCESS

Total time 40 minutes 3 seconds
1378 loot out of 1378
Pockets Picked 3/3 , Locks picked 7
All damage stats zero (none allowed anyway)
Secrets found 9/9

Comments on Framed

The Corpse with purse was my one of my pickpocket counts this time - i think the latest T2Fix changed something for the better. I was able to exit by mantling onto the rooftop and jumping over a wall so I didn't have to leave a gate open. Every picked open lock that wasn't a footlocker was re-locked with the appropriate key and I returned pickpocketed keys on patrol routes.

I did not extinguish any lights and completed the mission without a single alert.

[klatremus]

Didn't you have to turn off the watcher on the top floor to get into the vault? Supreme rules don't allow turning off watchers.

[Galaer]

Didn't you have to turn off the watcher on the top floor to get into the vault? Supreme rules don't allow turning off watchers.

But it's not like he wants to disable watcher. Opening access to Vault has this side effect of disabling security and there is no other way in. I think this one should be excused, because it's not created by player's choice.

[klatremus]

Yeah, that's the reasoning I had in my report on my website. I more wanted to see his response. Nevertheless, it is technically a bust, so it definitely should be mentioned and reasoned on in the report. After all, that's what the reports are for. He didn't write a single word about it, which is what made me think he didn't even notice, or forgot about the rule overall.

[lordhern]

for Framed I normally do this; enter the code - it opens the door. I check the watcher set-up and reset code until the security watcher turns away. Then from inside the vault I lean around and reset the code to 0000 to allow the door to wake up the watcher, close the door then I can then complete the vault.

on my way out i use the switch on the right hand and side to get out and lean-around and close it and the door leaving watcher running.

I have not found a way to open the vault without that that code.

[lordhern]

I re-played the remaining levels of T2MA in ironman.

some highlights: I used the FailOnSee hack to enforce ghost success.

Trail of Blood: chemical success (speed potion), put out some torches and property damage as usual to get past the ice. meh.

Life of the party: *finally* ironman ghost success . 18 hours and some minutes (went to bed waiting for the golden boy to fidget his way across the rome) . I forgot to grab screenshot. no damage, no property damage. lots of of nudges and 1st alerts on the damn 5th floor secret door. no chemicals used. I left all the boxes in the golden boy room this time and I WAS able to grab the plans through the painting this time so did no need to shut down the security.

kidnap: I unhooked the cavador train in site 2. left the boxes there. I extinguished one torch. no 2nd level alerts at all. I was able to to get ALL the loot. ( It took three attempts with the FailOnSee.)

casing: I had to nudge the entry-door guard to exit (supreme bust) I always visit the lobby last to limit the patroller in the ballroom. I map the ENTIRE mansion including floor three. and the precursor masks are already there. If you take them they still show up in the next level. Perfect thief and Ghost success only. no 1st alerts but the nudge to exit is still a bust. dunno what to say about the ghost that goes away when you read all five books - should that be a ghost bust since I got rid of a ghost?

Masks: I was able to dodge all patrols w/o problems. ghost success, no 2nd level alerts . supreme bust as heard a settling remark from one of the static guards in the ballroom.



Soulforge : 4 hours + (forgot to grab the screenshot at the end).

I was able to chemical ghost soulforge by purchasing an invisibility potion at load out and I used Galaers hard-bind method to skip the entry watcher on level start. The scripted battlebots that come to BAY A still arrived though.

I skipped ONE switch tower - the one in the turret research room. - I have never been able to ghost the turret room before so I skipped this one. I didn't bother getting all the secrets (would require damaging bots) and I used some moss arrows in Bays D and E to avoid waking the child bots.

the battle-bot rooms with two switches just needed timing my moves to ghost successfully. no 2nd level alerts, ONLY ONE chirp from a watcher and none went yellow.


Total campaign time:
somewhere between 67 and 68 hours. (forgot screenshot)

Campaign Total damage dealt 1 (Cavador knockout)
Campaign Total damage received 0

[Galaer]

Klatremus, I wanted to ask about your Trail of Blood supreme ghost run on Newdark. To enter monkey village you stick into wall and pass without getting noticed. And you say it's impossible to not get stuck into wall when you are sneaking along it. Guess what, I tried this for 1 hour and not only I don't get stuck, but also all the time I get discovered. Are you sure this technique is available on Newdark?

Also I would say that this technique is definitely an exploit - you just mention it yourself that you kinda hide from them inside wall, which isn't very realistic. I mean, try yourself to enter the wall. It's just not possible.

[klatremus]

It's not possible to do this in NewDark, only in OldDark. I explain this in the video. The small segment I show in the video where I get past the monkeymen unalerted is from OldDark. The rest of the run is from NewDark. I'm not really sure if it's an exploit. The first time I did it I didn't even know what I was doing. Only recently did I realize that I was actually sticking to the wall. There are lots of things in Thief that are not realistic, so that is not what makes something an exploit.

[Galaer]

The reason I count that as an exploit is it's a bug and it was fixed in Newdark. If there was a need to fix something, then that means it was unintended bug and using it should count as supreme bust. Also if sticking into wall is impossible, then why didn't you say that it's impossible to not get stick to the wall when sneaking along it. Instead you went to Olddark version and performed this technique. You explained that you can't only jump on scroll in Newdark, because you can't drop it. It may be true for T2Fix, but in Tafferpatcher it's possible to drop scroll. But now you are telling that the whole sticking into wall is impossible in Newdark. So that confused me in your video.

[klatremus]

I just listened to the video again, and at 43:20 I very clearly say that "in olddark if you sneak along this wall, just normal sneaking, you actually get partly stuck to the wall". Since I point this out, I felt it was fairly obvious that means you can't do this in newdark.

[Galaer]

It wasn't obvious for me, because very quickly you switched to talk about inability of dropping scroll in Newdark, so I was sure that's the only reason for you to not sticking into wall.

[reoscachazos]

Hello guys!

I've succesfully ghosted and perfect thieved the whole campaign before, but never SG'ed. I'm revisiting thief after being shelved for almost 2-3 years .

Loot: 50g/50g
Ghost: Success
Perfect Thief: Success
Supreme ghost: Success (unavoidable sparring guard damage)
Perfect Supreme Ghost: Success
Time - 22:04
Pockets Picked - 0/0
Locks Picked - N/A
Secrets - 1/1
Backstabs - 0, Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - ?, Damage taken - 0
Healing taken - 0, Other Kills - 0, Bodies Discovered - 0
Consumables - None

I'm running TFix 1.27 and the mods i'm using

1. NecroAge textures
2. EP2
3. Sound enhancement mod - alt edition
4. Carry body mod

Mission 0 - A Keeper's training:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRRHHlss-yQ

Will be reporting on Mission 1 - Bafford's Mansion as soon as i finish it and record it.

Thank you everyone!

[klatremus]

Awesome work man! I will definitely check out your video. We always need more Supreme ghosters. It would be great if you would do some fan missions and post reports on the ghost thread there as well. We have goal of getting reports done for every mission. Not too many left now.

[reoscachazos]

Hello guys!

This is my SG report on Mission 2: Lord Bafford's manor

Loot: 1429/1429
Ghost: Success
Perfect Thief: Success
Supreme ghost: Success
Perfect Supreme Ghost: Success
Time - 01:08:10
Pockets Picked - 1/4
Locks Picked - None
Secrets - 0/0
Backstabs - 0, Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 0, Damage taken - 0
Healing taken - 0, Other Kills - 0, Bodies Discovered - 0
Consumables - None


Will be reporting on Mission 3 - Break from Cragscleft prison as soon as i finish it and record it.

Thank you everyone!

[reoscachazos]

Awesome work man! I will definitely check out your video. We always need more Supreme ghosters. It would be great if you would do some fan missions and post reports on the ghost thread there as well. We have goal of getting reports done for every mission. Not too many left now.

Absolutely, i will SG FM's as well. TDM is also on my agenda.

[marbleman]

Just don't play FMs with mods

[Galaer]

Played a bit Shipping and Receiving yesterday. In Building B is chest that in Newdark was moved a bit, so it's possible to walk around it. In Olddark you needed to use 2 rope arrows to climb over it. I can only play on Newdark though, so I decided to go on the other side of this chest without going around it and without using rope arrows. And it was super easy. All I did I crouch jumped on top of chest. And that's it. I think this could also work in Olddark version of this mission.

[klatremus]

I never experimented with the Tfixed version of this map when it comes to the chest, I just walked around it. To get the vanilla version you don't have to play in olddark. Instead just replace the mission file with the original unedited one and remove any dmls you might have, plus disable newmantle, then you'll get the olddark version but played in NewDark. I wouldn't assume your method works in olddark unless you actually try it in olddark.

[Galaer]

OK, so I tried your method and looks like crouch jump doesn't work in Olddark. But that's only because there is something solid and invisible placed above chest. I tried smacking this place above chest with sword and it gave me wooden noise. So I'm guessing that LGS placed by mistake there invisible chest or something. Otherwise crouch jump could work.

So I'm guessing that in Newdark someone noticed this invisible chest and removed it. And as a side effect he probably also moved visible chest by mistake.

[klatremus]

No the shifting of the chest is a deliberate move. It's a part of AM16's Thief2 Fixed 1.3b pack included with T2Fix. If you uncheck this option upon install or install the T2Fix Lite version, it is not included. Few changes made by AntiMatter16 are accidental, as he is very meticulous, but he occasionally makes personal choices that goes beyond "fixing" mistakes. He did this so that you didn't have to break the skylight to get the spice bag. I have communicated with him on several occasions about this when it comes to fixing fan missions too. I posted about this chest issue over in the T2Fix thread. This is my post and you can see the responses that followed. He did a similar thing in Life of the Party where the guard by the main entrance on bottom floor of Angelwatch now turns around, which he never did in the vanilla release. It was just done so you can take the loot by the door without getting spotted. In my opinion this is a wrong use of mods that are supposed to fix, not alter missions. A bigger issue is also it is included by default with T2Fix, which means 99% of new players will automatically install it and never actually experience the original version. It should've been included as a separate pack that people can install with a disclaimer that it will alter missions so they deviate from the original intent.

I show how you can get through the crate in NewDark vanilla with one rope arrow here. If you say there's something wooden above the chest, then that also shows me LGS didn't want anyone getting through there, but instead find a way to get inside breaking the window above. Yet another reason why it shouldn't have been changed.

[Galaer]

If you say there's something wooden above the chest, then that also shows me LGS didn't want anyone getting through there, but instead find a way to get inside breaking the window above. Yet another reason why it shouldn't have been changed.

I disagree with you on this one. If LGS really wanted to block this route they would put crate with chest much higher under ceiling or completely block this chest by putting crate. They didn't do it. Instead there is something wooden and invisible above chest, which for me looks like bug. Don't forget that Thief 2 was a rushed game, so it's possible for LGS to miss that. I don't think it was intended to block this route that way. Plus they never put any invisible wall in their games. At least I don't know about any. Plus you can't jump normally on this chest, because ceiling is too low. You need to perform crouch jump and it's not a common knowledge. Because of that I don't think there was any need for LGS to put extra invisible wall to block passage.

As for link to T2Fix thread, I read it and I didn't see any definitive answer why footlocker changed it's position. There is only hypothesis made by Jax64 and that's all. Unless you don't get answer from AM16 or check this footlocker in Dromed, you can only speculate about real reason. I suspect that maybe this footlocker has been duplicated by mistake and became invisible above visible footlocker. But this is just a guess.