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Thread: ☣ Coronavirus ☣

  1. #3676
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    It is a sad fact that governments covering up epidemics seems to be more the norm than the exception. ("Spanish Flu" is called "Spanish Flu" because Spain was the country that admitted the problem, not because they originated it.)

  2. #3677
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    It is a sad fact that governments covering up epidemics seems to be more the norm than the exception. ("Spanish Flu" is called "Spanish Flu" because Spain was the country that admitted the problem, not because they originated it.)
    I mentioned that because recently I saw a "proof" in one of the articles and it was saying the Chinese were slow to report Covid-19 when they've been so quick in the past, but you can check and they were always slow to announce and got criticized for it. So it's not actually evidence for or against, and that's just people retroactively changing history because they want to push a narrative. That's why you always go back and read up on anything people claim yourself.

    However I'm pretty sure if Trump had his way the USA would have pretended there's no virus too. He certainly wanted that, basically if you don't test people then the "numbers" would be better, according to him.

    What really sickens me however is the douchebags who claim Dr Fauci made the virus so he could become famous or something.

  3. #3678
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Quote Originally Posted by Cipheron View Post
    Those research proposals we had the link for before were about experiments with modified Sars-1 type viruses.
    Were they live viruses? Can you tell me which page that info is on?
    Seems nuts that any lab anywhere would modify a live virus to be more infective to humans.
    I only saw mention of pseudovirus.

  4. #3679
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Quote Originally Posted by faetal View Post
    Were they live viruses? Can you tell me which page that info is on?
    Seems nuts that any lab anywhere would modify a live virus to be more infective to humans.
    I only saw mention of pseudovirus.
    I didn't make any claims about modifying viruses to be more infective to humans, my point was that the grants were related to SARS specifically. I said this because of nbohr's link

    https://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/...od-15-011.html

    NIH will continue to accept new applications for research projects involving gain-of-function studies, including those that may be reasonably anticipated to confer attributes to influenza, MERS, or SARS viruses such that the resulting virus has enhanced pathogenicity and/or transmissibility (via the respiratory route) in mammals
    Basically my point it's that it's a stretch to think this is a smoking gun. There's a big difference between research related to known viruses vs thinking they made modifications to some random shit someone found in a cave somewhere. No amount of jiggery is going to turn SARS into Covid-19.

    And anyway, this just says that NIH is willing to *look* at the research applications. There's one issue however, it's the fact that THIS is the document that's being offered as proof, instead of the actual research applications themselves. That is actually evidence in favor of the idea that there were in fact no relevant research proposals. Otherwise people would have linked those documents, and not this one.
    Last edited by Cipheron; 23rd Sep 2021 at 05:59.

  5. #3680
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Also, one of the claims in recent articles is asking why the Chinese government didn't announce it straight away. And the fact that they tried to keep it quiet during the initial outbreak / control measures must prove they have something to hide. Unfortunately for that line of proof: that's exactly what the Chinese government did in 2002. It took them more than 3 months after the first patient died in the 2002 SARS outbreak to even inform the WHO.
    That's the problem of EVERY government as an institution.
    It is a sad fact that governments covering up epidemics seems to be more the norm than the exception. ("Spanish Flu" is called "Spanish Flu" because Spain was the country that admitted the problem, not because they originated it.)
    It's literally.....physiological. That's how the "state" works.

  6. #3681
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Quote Originally Posted by Cipheron View Post
    And anyway, this just says that NIH is willing to *look* at the research applications. There's one issue however, it's the fact that THIS is the document that's being offered as proof, instead of the actual research applications themselves. That is actually evidence in favor of the idea that there were in fact no relevant research proposals. Otherwise people would have linked those documents, and not this one.
    It's a good point. Just trying to be very clear on what is actually being modified, since modifying live virus would be a worry, whereas it seems all of the research details are concerning pseudovirus, which is no risk to anyone.
    Seems the media and the numpties are bending over backwards to decide that there's some kind of bio-warfare slant to the pandemic.

    Like, this is the THIRD coronavirus to make the jump into humans (that I'm aware of).

  7. #3682
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Quote Originally Posted by faetal View Post
    It's a good point. Just trying to be very clear on what is actually being modified, since modifying live virus would be a worry, whereas it seems all of the research details are concerning pseudovirus, which is no risk to anyone.
    Seems the media and the numpties are bending over backwards to decide that there's some kind of bio-warfare slant to the pandemic.

    Like, this is the THIRD coronavirus to make the jump into humans (that I'm aware of).
    Well it's the third one where we were aware of the event. The other multitude of coronaviruses we get must have jumped at previous times. And there need to be countless ones that tried but weren't up to the job of sustained infection in humans. Most people even shrug off Covid-19, so it's not unlikely that there have been many other zoonotic coronaviruses which just caused mild symptoms in one or a few people, got shrugged off as just a cold, but weren't up to sustained spreading.

    So that is a perspective that explains how this could happen: it's happening all the time in those places with concentrations of both humans and animals. Also consider that there hypothetically might be an immuno-compromised person involved, meaning it's not actually all that random after all. Infecting a person with a weak immune system may give the virus the chance to adapt to that host, then spread to other hosts.
    Last edited by Cipheron; 23rd Sep 2021 at 19:48.

  8. #3683
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Remember "Obama Care Death Panels"?

    Well Alaska effectively has them now, no fault of #44.

    Alaska is activating crisis standards of care for the entire state and bringing in contracted health workers as staff shortages and influx of COVID-19 patients make it difficult for hospitals to operate normally.

    Gov. Mike Dunleavy and top health officials announced the hospital support on Wednesday, the same day Alaska’s new single-day cases hit another record as the highly infectious delta variant drives infections.

    A combination of short staffing and high numbers of COVID-19 patients is overwhelming medical facilities in Anchorage, Mat-Su and Fairbanks. Rural hospitals say they struggle to transfer patients to urban centers for higher care. At least one patient died recently when a bed in Anchorage wasn’t available.

  9. #3684
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Possibly a step closer to learning about the origins of the virus: Closest known relatives of virus behind COVID-19 found in Laos

    In before conspiracy theorists start to accuse Laos of developing bio-weapons.

  10. #3685
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Possibly a step closer to learning about the origins of the virus: Closest known relatives of virus behind COVID-19 found in Laos

    In before conspiracy theorists start to accuse Laos of developing bio-weapons.
    Those bats are fucking ugly as hell: monstrous. That's why I prefer fruitbats:

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e4/e8...c817886fce.jpg
    Last edited by Cipheron; 24th Sep 2021 at 08:42.

  11. #3686
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Researchers say that parts of their genetic code bolster claims that the virus behind COVID-19 has a natural origin — but their discovery also raises fears that there are numerous coronaviruses with the potential to infect people.
    Claims? Isn't the simplest explanation kind of meant to be the default until proven otherwise? This makes it sound like we should assume it is engineered, while we prove the claims tha it isn't.

    Particularly concerning is that the new viruses contain receptor binding domains that are almost identical to that of SARS-CoV-2, and can therefore infect human cells. The receptor binding domain allows SARS-CoV-2 to attach to a receptor called ACE2 on the surface of human cells to enter them.
    That is a concern, but it might also mean that the immunity from the vaccines might offer some protection against other strains if the important regions are similar enough.

    “When SARS-CoV-2 was first sequenced, the receptor binding domain didn’t really look like anything we’d seen before,” says Edward Holmes, a virologist at the University of Sydney in Australia. This caused some people to speculate that the virus had been created in a laboratory. But the Laos coronaviruses confirm these parts of SARS-CoV-2 exist in nature, he says.
    Note this down, crazies.

    The Laos study offers insight into the origins of the pandemic, but there are still missing links, say researchers. For example, the Laos viruses don’t contain the so-called furin cleavage site on the spike protein that further aids the entry of SARS-CoV-2 and other coronaviruses into human cells.
    This will be the part that the dickheads quote (while excluding the rest) as further proof it was engineered (until we find the natural origin for the furin cleavage site, possibly in pangolins or another intermediate).

  12. #3687
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by faetal View Post
    Claims? Isn't the simplest explanation kind of meant to be the default until proven otherwise?
    Well, we don't know for sure, do we? Rather than "the default explanation" it would probably be more accurate to say "our best guess as far as where the evidence points to". Anyway, the TWIV podcast is going to discuss the paper in a future (possibly the next) episode, so it's going to be interesting to see how far we have come in understanding the origins of the virus and how the latest evidence fits into the bigger picture.

  13. #3688
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Quote Originally Posted by faetal View Post
    Note this down, crazies.
    Good luck with that bit. If there's one thing that I learned researching the PizzaGate/Q stuff it's that there's a chain of inference, but it's only scaffolding. You make the connection, but if the connection is then severed, rather than reject the following chain of inference, you double down on it. For example if you have "A implies B, which implies C, which implies D" then if "A" is disproven you just double down. So now "B" is itself questionable since it doesn't have "A" to back it up, but then you point at the *chain itself* as the proof: "Sure A was proven wrong, but check it out, if B WASN'T true then how unlikely would it be that B proved C and C proved D!" ... so they literally just reverse the chain of causation or link it back to itself.

    So, for Pizzagate the original thing was that "CP" is online slang for "child porn" and then pointing out that the initials "CP" could also mean "cheese pizza". so "pizza" was just a code, for child rape. However, notice that by this point you've ALREADY dropped the CP thing AND the "cheese pizza" thing. Those were not a chain of proof as is normally allowed, but temporary scaffolding to get to the point where you're just insinuating that "pizza" is code for little girls.

    but then you notice that whenever they're referencing the "pizza" it's in relation to an *actual* pizza joint. So you ditch the ENTIRE "it's a code" part and just outright say that with your pizza order there's an optional side-dish of demonic rituals and child sacrifice. At this point the only evidence remaining is that Podesta went out for pizza *often* and that he scheduled 1 hour meetings at the pizza joint - the argument is now that it doesn't take 1 hour to eat a pizza, as if that makes the idea it was actually a satanic ritual / rape / torture / murder party more "plausible".

    Back in reality, Podesta was a very busy person running an election campaign, and you still need to eat every day, and you'd only have time to eat take-out. So if "pizza" was just a code and there wasn't pizza, we have to assume that Podesta was eating different take-out in between those times, and that he NEVER talked about what he's actually eating. So now they take statements like "i'll grab a pizza on the way home" to mean that this guy with an incredibly demanding schedule doing 16 hour days is going to abduct a child on his way home for a full night of torture/rape. And what he actually had for dinner, it's something he apparently kept to himself.

    So no, for the Covid thing, disproving the key points doesn't actually matter. They'll just retroactively rewrite the theory to route-around any logical inconsistencies and chains of inference that are later broken.
    Last edited by Cipheron; 24th Sep 2021 at 17:54.

  14. #3689
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Occam's razor. Naturally occurring coronaviruses several times already?

    For the assumption to sit on the fence would be absurd.

  15. #3690
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Quote Originally Posted by faetal View Post
    Occam's razor. Naturally occurring coronaviruses several times already?

    For the assumption to sit on the fence would be absurd.
    That's the post TV world we live in really. They'll debate the flat Earth by getting one scientist, and one layman on the world-is-round side, meanwhile on the other side of the panel they'll get one flat earther who has an engineering degree along with another flat earther who has zero qualifications whatsoever, and that's how we do balanced coverage.

    But the deeper problem is what I said, that the preponderance of evidence doesn't matter here. Basically if you remove the arguments, they'll re-route through whichever points back up their preconceived conclusion. And the fallback is always that the scientists are "fake news".

    Yeah, so it is handy to point out that the spike protein of Covid-19 has been found in numerous wild bat species already, because that at least shuts down the argument that that part of the virus was man-made. but that's not enough to switch people away from the lab-leak hypothesis since they'll just come up with another ad-hoc explanation now. "nefarious secret stuff" is magic glue that can always make any conspiracy theory work. So they'll just say that the Chinese just secretly already collected those viruses, but didn't record them in their samples, for secret nefarious reasons: so the lack of anyone having samples of the virus already *becomes* the proof that they had the virus in a lab.
    Last edited by Cipheron; 24th Sep 2021 at 18:22.

  16. #3691
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    https://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpak..._requirements/

    So I’m a professional musician. I recently played a show in which we opened for a number of super famous Emo/pop punk bands in Pittsburgh, PA. Think Rise Against, The Used, shit like that.

    Well, they “required vaccine” proof on their website/ticket sales as well as for acts. I’m fully vaccinated, so are most people performing, no biggie. But something interesting happened, at the gate, they did not really ask for vaccine proof at all, just ID for beer purposes, but the stigma of the vaccine proof requirement filtered out a lot of typical concert bullshit. Here’s what I noticed about this particular group of concert goers:

    *Nobody drinking heavily and fighting and/or urinating all over the place.

    *Nobody smoking cigarettes, or at least if they were, no butts on the ground.

    *No litter.

    *A lot of people vaping and enjoying weed edibles.

    *people were respectful and nice.
    So, unexpected benefit, just saying there's a vaccine requirement even if there is none, keeps the asshats away.
    Last edited by Cipheron; 27th Sep 2021 at 22:01.

  17. #3692
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Cipheron View Post
    So, unexpected benefit, just saying there's a vaccine requirement even if there is none, keeps the asshats away.
    1984!!!111111 Orwell got it right!!11111

    Order is disorder!!!11111 You INHUMAN assholes!!111 You'll pay for this!!!111 I have the right to pee around as I wish!!111



  18. #3693
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    just look at this Un-American freedom hater and his tyrannical vaccine mandate:

    https://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/GW&sm...oculation.html

    Among the Continental regulars in the American Revolution, 90 percent of deaths were caused by disease, and Variola the small pox virus was the most vicious of them all.

    On the 6th of January 1777, George Washington wrote to Dr. William Shippen Jr., ordering him to inoculate all of the forces that came through Philadelphia. He explained that: "Necessity not only authorizes but seems to require the measure, for should the disorder infect the Army . . . we should have more to dread from it, than from the Sword of the Enemy." The urgency was real. Troops were scarce and encampments had turned into nomadic hospitals of festering disease, deterring further recruitment. Both Benedict Arnold and Benjamin Franklin, after surveying the havoc wreaked by Variola in the Canadian campaign, expressed fears that the virus would be the army's ultimate downfall.

  19. #3694
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Damn tyrant!


  20. #3695
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Give me freedom or give me.... URK! (thump)

  21. #3696
    Member
    Registered: May 2001
    Location: Carlisle, PA

    Third Moderna shot

    I received my third Moderna shot on Friday at 4:00 pm EST, five months after my second one. After having no side effects after shot 1 and 2, except for a sore arm after the first shot, I was hoping for minimal side effects from the third. Unfortunately, this was not the case. I tossed and turned all night. In addition to a sore arm, I woke up Saturday morning with all over muscle soreness and stiffness, fatigue that became extreme in the early evening, and intermittent chills - but no fever. I tried to sleep more in the late morning and mid-afternoon, but didn't succeed at getting much. I was still able to force myself to go grocery shopping in the morning and stop by a local brewery for their Octoberfest celebration in the early afternoon. By 7 pm, I could barely get off of the couch, I was so fatigued and weak. I slept a little better Saturday night, and when I woke Sunday morning, almost all of the symptoms were gone. I just had some lingering injection site soreness. I was able to go for a 90-mile motorcycle ride, mow the lawn, and watch my NFL team suck for 3 hrs. So, the total time from injection to recuperation for me was about 40 hrs. I had a window of about six waking hours that I felt awful. Not too bad considering the benefit gained for someone like me on immunosuppressants. I had plans for Saturday night that I could in no way ever have kept, but it was really no big deal.

  22. #3697
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    You lived to complain about it. That's a plus.

  23. #3698
    Member
    Registered: May 2001
    Location: Carlisle, PA
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicker View Post
    You lived to complain about it. That's a plus.
    Not complaining, sharing the experience so others can prepare for a potential reaction, even if they had no side effects after the first two shots. Seriously, the only part of my entire post that I believe might be able to be perceived as a complaint is that my NFL team sucks.

  24. #3699
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Nicker is ironic (towards antivaxxers "It's poison!!111" / "You're the guinea pig!!111").

  25. #3700
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Make sure to report your side-effect if you can. You might have the info on any literature they handed you during / after your shot.
    All helps with maintaining appropriate safety profiles for vaccines.

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