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Thread: ☣ Coronavirus ☣

  1. #376
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    121 tests out of 1.4M residents.
    Hm. Our per capita is ~4 times higher (Estonia, ~1.3 pop) however, our positive rate is also higher (ie. there will likely be more cases prompting a test) and possibly counting over a longer time-period.

    Yesterday totals: 464 tests done with 17 positives (currently has ramped up to 45 tests per day).

    Maybe there has not been much need for testing in your state? Ie. one should not waste the COVID tests needlessly - many cases can be pruned by other means (ex: check for probable alternate disease where reasonable). Also, since when have the tests been available there? Either way, a total of 2 positives over 96 tests done sounds terrible as a ratio. Confuddled triage? People panicking? If they panic now - what happens when the shit actually hits the fan?

    edit: on second thought ... ours was probably equally low at the start. At least that would make sense.
    Last edited by zombe; 13th Mar 2020 at 17:08.

  2. #377
    BANNED
    Registered: Nov 2016
    Location: Trollinus Maximus
    Starker, I did not blame the DR's, you wanted to compare systems.............and Renz, thanks for proving our dip shits would be worse at handling things if we had UHC under them.

  3. #378
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
    Starker, I did not blame the DR's, you wanted to compare systems.............and Renz, thanks for proving our dip shits would be worse at handling things if we had UHC under them.
    The thing is, a swamped hospital is a swamped hospital, whether they're contracting through the government, or buoyed by the insurance companies. It's not like a shortage of beds is a problem endemic with UHC countries. We're as likely to start implementing triage as anyone else once our numbers start getting high enough.

    Also:


  4. #379
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    With China things are a bit different. They effectively put the whole country on lockdown and managed to contain the virus.

    https://miro.medium.com/max/3116/1*z...50x_DJUIBA.png

    For countries that don't have that option, mitigation is the only way to deal with it -- slow the spread down enough to keep the number of cases within the capacity of the health care system.
    Last edited by Starker; 13th Mar 2020 at 17:20.

  5. #380
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Wasn't quite sure whether to stick this here or in the dump:
    January 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”

    February 2: “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”

    February 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

    February 25: “CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus.”

    February 25: “I think that's a problem that’s going to go away… They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.”

    February 26: “The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”

    February 26: “We're going very substantially down, not up.”

    February 27: “One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

    February 28: “We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical.”

    March 2: “You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?”

    March 2: “A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things are happening and they’re happening very rapidly.”

    March 4: “If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better.”

    March 5: “I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.”

    March 5: “The United States… has, as of now, only 129 cases… and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!”

    March 6: “I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down… a tremendous job at keeping it down.”

    March 6: “Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They’re there. And the tests are beautiful…. the tests are all perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? This was not as perfect as that but pretty good.”

    March 6: “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”

    March 6: “I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault.”

    March 8: “We have a perfectly coordinated and fine tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus.”

    March 9: “This blindsided the world.”

  6. #381
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    The other option is to just let it go, and allow the survivors to act as a buffer for those who have yet to be infected through herd immunity.

    I'm stealing that Pyrian. That's literally how this shit played out here in the US.

  7. #382
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
    Starker, I did not blame the DR's, you wanted to compare systems.............and Renz, thanks for proving our dip shits would be worse at handling things if we had UHC under them.
    Then explain to me how it's the fault of universal health care that doctors are having to decide who lives and dies? If a hospital doesn't have enough ventilators, you think a private hospital wouldn't be forced to make the very same decisions? And Italy does have private hospitals, if I'm not mistaken.
    Last edited by Starker; 13th Mar 2020 at 17:15.

  8. #383
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    Wasn't quite sure whether to stick this here or in the dump:
    The punch line president. And there's also this:

    https://twitter.com/davidgura/status...41528959057923

    and this:

    https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/10/...ss-investment/

    In words that now seem prescient, Bill Gates said in an interview with STAT two years ago that he had urged President Trump to invest in technologies to respond to a pandemic.

    “The president was kind enough to spend time with me, and one of the issues I brought up is this opportunity to build new tools that would help us deal with a pandemic,’’ said Gates, who has long warned of the possibility of a global disease outbreak.

    He added: “It is strange that this risk, that the world isn’t doing more. We talk about doing more when we have smaller epidemics like Ebola and Zika, but then the actual follow-up is pretty modest. We think the idea of spending what would be a tiny part of the budget to be ready for a pandemic makes sense.’’

  9. #384
    BANNED
    Registered: Nov 2016
    Location: Trollinus Maximus
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Then explain to me how it's the fault of universal health care that doctors are having to decide who lives and dies? If a hospital doesn't have enough ventilators, you think a private hospital wouldn't be forced to make the very same decisions? And Italy does have private hospitals, if I'm not mistaken.
    if you are PAYING and covered then you would in theory have a bed.............

  10. #385
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
    if you are PAYING and covered then you would in theory have a bed.............
    I think the one thing we can establish here is that poor planning is poor planning, regardless if it's by a system that's paid through taxes, or insurance.

  11. #386
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
    if you are PAYING and covered then you would in theory have a bed.............
    Okay, and exactly what incentive would for-profit health care facilities have to get extra beds they don't use just in case they might need them some day?

  12. #387
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    jkcerda - are you just trolling?

    Because you really seem to not understand any aspect of this. At all.

  13. #388
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    On one hand, you have a system that will only do the absolute necessary minimum in order to maximize profits. On the other, you have a system that's only as good as the people running it. At least with the latter, you can hold someone accountable. If the insurance companies fuck you over, all you can do is bitch at them, which they'll usually ignore, or you can attempt to sue them, which is difficult to do, because they're lawyered up to hell and back, and you're probably poor now due to your insurance company fucking you over.

  14. #389
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    Yep. Case count is exploding here as was, unfortunately, expected. State ~4 hours ago. Total: 700+ tests, 79 positives (~1.3M pop).

  15. #390
    BANNED
    Registered: Nov 2016
    Location: Trollinus Maximus
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    jkcerda - are you just trolling?

    Because you really seem to not understand any aspect of this. At all.
    not panicking like many of you seemingly are does not mean I don't understand it.

  16. #391
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Who here is panicking?

  17. #392

  18. #393
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Which is the prime example of why we should be taking this seriously, and not dismissing it as "not even as bad as the flu", JK. That's not panic. That's appropriate cautiousness.

  19. #394
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Alright, here you go. Let's make it official.



    It's probably been said, but Trump's response is not hard to understand. His brand of NPD is the kind that prizes power over powerlessness, and it's important that the powerless get the suffering that's coming to them for being weak. A disease outbreaks is the concrete sign of the weakness of a shithole country. And in NPD logic, no matter what, we can't be a shithole country or I'd be the president of a shithole people. So I think he was under pretty extreme psychological pressure to deny corona is a threat to the US and hide evidence of it. But once it is clearly in, he has to be "presidential" in the moment and show what a "powerful country" does, like shutting down all travel to Europe in a single stroke. It's all signaling.
    Last edited by demagogue; 13th Mar 2020 at 19:45.

  20. #395
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    To be fair, shutting down all travel for a temporary period isn't too terrible of an idea, given the circumstances. It's just that more needs to be done, and it needs to be done two weeks ago.

  21. #396
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    As I wrote, Rudy Gobert of the Utah Jazz got tested positive Wednesday night. Immediately, even before they got on the plane back to Utah, all team-members of the Utah Jazz got tested for covid-19. And the coaching staff. And the rest of the traveling staff of the Utah Jazz. Over 50 tests done.

    Yesterday Charles Barkley (ex-NBA player, Hall of Famer, now media-personality) felt a bit ill. Flu-like symptoms a bit. He went home and got tested for covid-19. (Result is not known yet).

    So I follow NBA basketball. I sometimes read reddit.com/r/nba.
    Dozens and dozens of posters on reddit.com: "How come all these rich people get tested for covid-19 immediately ? My father/mother/grandpa/grandma were ill this week, they went to the hospital, stood in line for a long time, and then were told they could *NOT* get a test. Didn't qualify. Missing one symptom, fever not high enough, no proven contact with a confirmed covid-19 case, etc, etc".

    Oklahoma state can do 100 tests per day. They used half of their daily tests last Wednesday on a bunch of rich kids out of state.

    Trump announced that he negotiated with US healthcare insurance that nobody has to pay a deductible for the cost of getting tested for covid-19. What he didn't say is that you can only get tested if your healthcare insurer agrees/authorizes a test. Now it may be that hospitals are denying doing tests because they don't have enough test-kits atm. But it might also be that they'll keep denying tests, just to keep costs down. We'll have to wait and see.

    I've said it before. Poverty, excessive costs of health-care, and bad/no health-care insurance for a large part of the population, are factors that are gonna make this outbreak a lot worse in the US than in other countries.

  22. #397
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    like shutting down all travel to Europe
    Well, except countries where he has his golf courses.

  23. #398
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    Trump announced that he negotiated with US healthcare insurance that nobody has to pay a deductible for the cost of getting tested for covid-19. What he didn't say is that you can only get tested if your healthcare insurer agrees/authorizes a test. Now it may be that hospitals are denying doing tests because they don't have enough test-kits atm. But it might also be that they'll keep denying tests, just to keep costs down. We'll have to wait and see.
    A week ago or so, at the press conference where they boasted about 1.5 million test kits going out to the hospitals, someone asked the US vice president what the plan is for uninsured people. Not only did they end the conference and run out of the room as fast as they could, his press secretary, as a parting remark, chided reporters for putting on a show for the camera. Yeah, not like it's a matter of life and death or anything.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings...-task-force-2/

    Q Can you please supply some guidance to the uninsured?

    THE VICE PRESIDENT: It’s probably a very — it’s probably a very good place — it’s probably a good — very good place to step off. We’re going to go back to work.

  24. #399
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    So, I watched the Wednesday House hearing on the coronavirus response to get a better idea of what's happening in the US. For the most part it was pretty predictable, with Republicans praising how perfect a job the president is doing and how dare Democrats politicise this and Democrats demanding to know why the US is not South Korea. One thing caught my ear however... To the question on whether the US plans to have large-scale drive through testing like the Koreans are doing, the director of the CDC said there are no plans to have test centres like that because the US is "trying to maintain the relationship between individuals and their healthcare providers." Exactly how many US citizens do have a "relationship with their healthcare provider"? Can someone who's uninsured just call up whoever would be the US equivalent of their family doctor (GP?) and ask for advice or how does that work?

  25. #400
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    On a positive note, if you've been wanting to go to the movies but are worried about crowds, then go to a drive in. One of the safest places since your in your car the whole time, unless you go to get food / drinks. Far safer than at a cinema / theater.

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