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Thread: ☣ Coronavirus ☣

  1. #501
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Canada has closed its borders to foreigners, but NOT citizens of the USA, the greatest disease threat we actually face. It's all moot by now anyway.

  2. #502
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    . . . up to 200mg per day is absorbed completely, depending on the person. If you take more than that, the body will actually start doing worse at absorbing it . . .
    I do appreciate the concern. I am aware of the possible problems with high doses though what constitutes a high dose seems to be open to different interpretations. (our RDA seems to be between 60mg and 1000mg!) I don't normally take vitamin C as a supplement but, with a lot of water, then I will take a large dose for a specific thing. Been doing it for 40 years whenever I feel a cold coming on and it seems to stop it in its tracks. But then it could be mind over matter. Generally I don't take supplements. Again though, I appreciate the concern from you and lowenz.

    But dammit, I just read that Idris Elba has tested positive. I'm gutted.

    Edit. I should have said that I have mentioned my once or twice a year taking loads of Vit C for a day or two to various GPs and not been told to stop.

  3. #503
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    He'll be okay, Nickie. He'll be okay. :P

  4. #504
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    I'll have your guts if he isn't. I mean, Tom Hanks is almost top of whatever list I was reading a few months ago and is top treasure of anyone's list but Idris Elba is just scrumptious.

  5. #505
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post


    The death machine is on......+252 deads today ONLY HERE WHERE I LIVE

    +368 Italy wide


    The definition of "to feel powerless".
    It reminds me of the lovecraftian horror of "Amnesia - A Machine for Pigs"

  6. #506
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    That's a great vid jk, even if it only reminds me of how awesome Italian sounds.

    Been doing it for 40 years whenever I feel a cold coming on and it seems to stop it in its tracks. But then it could be mind over matter
    Oh lawd

  7. #507
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    That's a great vid jk, even if it only reminds me of how awesome Italian sounds.
    Italian has always sounded like flamboyant Spanish to me. Like they're basically the same language (which they are, when you get right down to it), but Italian is somehow even more sing-songy and all up in your grill with excitement.

  8. #508
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Be nice to jump in a delorean and jump ahead 2 months to see how things are by then.

  9. #509
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Yeah, but none of us can find enough plutonium.

    And on that note, I'm off to watch Back to the Future again, cuz someone brought it up.

  10. #510
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Just be sure to make 88 miles per hour or more.

  11. #511
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    That's 141 kph for you.

  12. #512
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    Yeah, but none of us can find enough plutonium.
    Gheddafi is your friend! Oh wait......

  13. #513
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    even if it only reminds me of how awesome Italian sounds.
    Do you mean our language? Yes, no strange convoluted word pronunciation
    Very plain.

    But our local dialects are kind of hellish
    It's like english vs gaelic.

  14. #514
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    Oh lawd
    I hadn't thought of praying but I'll give it a go next time.

  15. #515
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Looks like the virus can really do a number on your body, possibly even permanent damage:

    https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...ients-may-have

    Some patients who recovered from Covid-19 have suffered reduced lung function and now experience problems such as gasping for air when walking quickly, Hong Kong’s Hospital Authority has revealed.

    [...]

    Dr Owen Tsang Tak-yin, medical director of the authority’s Infectious Disease Centre at Princess Margaret Hospital in Kwai Chung, said doctors had already seen around a dozen discharged patients in follow-up appointments. Two to three were unable to do things as they had in the past.

    “They gasp if they walk a bit more quickly,” Tsang told a media briefing on Thursday. “Some patients might have around a drop of 20 to 30 per cent in lung function [after recovery].”

    Tsang, who also heads an authority task force on the clinical management of infection, said these patients would undergo tests to determine how much lung function they still had. Physiotherapy would also be arranged to strengthen their lungs.

    A review of lung scans of nine infected patients at Princess Margaret found patterns similar to frosted glass in all of them, suggesting there was organ damage.

    But Tsang said the long-term effect on recovered patients, such as whether they would develop pulmonary fibrosis, a condition where lung tissue hardened and the organ could not function properly, had yet to be ascertained.

    He said discharged patients could do cardiovascular exercise such as swimming to help the lungs recover gradually.
    [...]

  16. #516
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Looks like the virus can really do a number on your body, possibly even permanent damage:

  17. #517
    So far Dema's chart from page 17 is holding true. Currently we have about 4700 total cases here in the U.S. It's crazy to think that number will likely almost triple in the next 5 days.

  18. #518
    BANNED
    Registered: Nov 2016
    Location: Trollinus Maximus
    (Meme removed)
    GOOD MORNING, hope all is well with you and yours.
    San Francisco went into lock down. seems Los Angeles is next.

  19. #519
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    So far Dema's chart from page 17 is holding true.
    It seems we're doing slightly better in NL. On the other hand, a few days ago it was announced we'll be doing (relatively) fewer tests. So that might explain the slower growth in the last few days. (Also: today we went from 24 deaths to 43 (almost doubling in a day)).

    Currently we have about 4700 total cases here in the U.S. It's crazy to think that number will likely almost triple in the next 5 days.
    Most people don't understand what "exponential" really means. Especially if the exponent isn't 2 (not doubling each day, but doubling each X days). For the last 2 weeks, it was obvious that the number of infected is roughly doubling every 3 days. And yes, that means in 5 days you'll have 3x more infected than today.

    Related to that. It was announced this weekend that hospitals are working on increasing the number of bed in ICU from 1150 to 2000 (nationwide). That sounds nice. But if you understand what exponential grow means, you'll understand that those extra beds will buy us only 2 days extra.

  20. #520
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    And Italy got hit extra hard, because it was hit relatively early and over 20% of its people are above 65 (compared to around 15% in the US). But I guess things in the US are being made worse by the general confusion and every state doing it's own thing and the "this harmless flu thing will blow over soon" attitude quite late into the pandemic.

  21. #521
    Another thing to ponder - Italy went on lockdown on the 9th or the 10th. So again, using Dema's chart, this coming weekend we will be at that same point that Italy was when they went on lockdown. Will it happen here too? Things certainly are heading in that direction.

  22. #522
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    I think the UK and NL are very close, or have already reached that point. And both their governments refuse to do a real lockdown. Lots of stuff is closed (schools, restaurants, bars, sports, events, etc). But people are still allowed to go outside whenever they like. Unlike Wuhan, Italy and France, who do real lockdowns.

    Both UK and NL governments talk about this "herd immunity". I'm still not 100% sure what they mean by that. I expect Trump to follow a similar strategy. I think it means:
    1) slow the spread enough so that we have enough hospital beds at all time
    2) assume everybody (or at least 70%) gets infected in the course of 1 year
    3) the elderly and vulnerable should do real, self-imposed isolation (shifting responsibility from the government to the old and ill themselves)
    4) after 1 year, most people will have gotten ill, then recovered, and then they are immune. this is called herd immunity.
    5) after 1 year, the number of immune people is so high, the elderly and weak can go outside again, because the risk they get infected is now very low

    I don't understand this. I call bullshit. How many people do need to be immune for this to work ? This concept of "herd immunity" doesn't work for simple diseases like the measles or other infectious diseases that are still around. And also, if you expect 70% of people to get infected, even when they are outside the risk group (elderly and weak), lots of those will still die. You're not gonna fight that ? You're not even gonna try ? Just accept a few (tens of) thousands of relatively young and healthy people to die ?

    Also, we don't know if people who gotten ill, or just infected, really become immune. There are stories from China (and Italy too, I think) about people who are declared recovered, who gotten infected (or ill) again later.

    Is it a coincidence that both the UK and Dutch government are right-wing conservative governments (where economy is more important than people) ?

    I understand how "herd immunity" helps when 98% of the population is vaccinated against a certain disease. The remaining 2% have a real low chance of getting infected. But covid-19 is completely different: they are talking about 60%-70% of people infected (much lower than the 95%+ I heard before), we don't have a vaccine, we don't know if people can get reinfected, we don't know how many "recovered" people still carry the virus and are contagious. Imho herd immunity for covid-19 is complete bullshit, as long as we don't have a vaccine. Our government is fucking us over.

    Can someone explain why the idea of Herd Immunity makes any sense ?
    Last edited by Gryzemuis; 17th Mar 2020 at 12:33.

  23. #523
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    And Italy got hit extra hard, because it was hit relatively early and over 20% of its people are above 65 (compared to around 15% in the US). But I guess things in the US are being made worse by the general confusion and every state doing it's own thing and the "this harmless flu thing will blow over soon" attitude quite late into the pandemic.
    Yes, we pay the tribute to Father Time.

  24. #524
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    Can someone explain why the idea of Herd Immunity makes any sense ?
    In this case there's NO immunity 'cause:
    1) Coronaviruses don't give immunity after the infection (see "Cold").
    2) Actually Coronaviruses seem to NOT wake up the immune system at all

    The death comes from the inflammation related lung damage, it's why some persons die and some have no symptoms at all! It's NOT the virus the direct cause of the syndrome, it's the DERANGED inflammation process in response!
    And it's why we're testing (Italy and China) this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocilizumab

    So don't get too much hope about a vaccine. Hope that we could treat the interstitial pneumonia that your own body induces and let the infection run dry naturally.
    Before having 10.000 individuals in ICU for 2 weeks! (here in Lombardy we are NOW @800-900! And every day we're building new intensive care beds but we need more and more and more)
    Last edited by lowenz; 17th Mar 2020 at 12:42.

  25. #525
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Man, this is surreal, like a bad dream. Elder people around here are dropping like flies and their younger caregivers (50 yo) are in ICU after getting infected by them!
    Medics and nurses too.

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